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UK Political Era |OT1| Dis United Kingdom

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,332
London
Nandy is annoying me a little with her EU comments, no we didn't just talk about free mobile phone roaming charges, anything important was project fear, everything good from clean beaches to cross border cooperation was ignored.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,253


“...the family had agreed with government officials not to comment on the extradition process while proceedings were ongoing. “
They've been messed around by the government more than a bit on this tragic fiasco. The chance of that woman ever returning to the country after she had been allowed to leave was basically zero. The only 'justice' the Dunn's might ever receive is those responsible for allowing her to leave getting a slap on the wrist.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,515
I expect Starmer to romp this. RLB running is a mistake, her advisors should of told her that.. no one (well no one who wants to get back into power) wants more of the same. My only guess is she thinks she will get a top position in the shadow cabinet. Which I don’t think will happen. Starmer largely (staying out the way) during the election tells you he knew exactly what was coming.
 

WonderBoyd89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
60
How come Westminster politicians don't understand Scotland's right to self determination and instead view it through a narrow nationalist sphere?

Scotland isn't a colonial possession.
 

WonderBoyd89

Member
Oct 27, 2017
60
Because "SNP Bad" is easier to process than actually having a nuanced understanding of Scottish politics, and that's been true both for the Tories and Labour.
It's getting incredibly frustrating. We have the right to choose our own future. Nandy and Phillips speak like tinpot dictators.

It's getting to the point where I'd support a UDI and all the mess that would come with that. I don't want to be part of this uncaring, broken country anymore.
 

CampFreddie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,167
Possibly the worst-policy you could advocate as Labour leader is:
"Let's have another referendum on Scotland and spend the next 5-10 years arguing about how it will happen, while totally ignoring everything else."
That'll cost you a fuckton of votes in England and run completely counter to the current narrative that Labour need policies that directly connect with their voters' needs.
If Labour had a chance of winning seats in Scotland then it would be different, but the only people who would vote Labour are Left-wing Unionists. What's the point of trying to appeal to left-wing nationalists when the SNP have that vote locked down. Offering a referendum won't make SNP voters vote Labour again.

The path to Scottish independence is to make a referendum a requirement for confidence and supply in a hung parliament (it would be a poison chalice for Labour, but I think they'd take it after 25 years in the wilderness). I just don't any way that offering a referendum is in the interests of any other party.
It sucks if you support Scottish independence, and a referendum is clearly the morally right thing to do, but I don't see how any non-independence party can support it.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,332
London
Labour should just separate the Scottish Party and let it do its own thing, the federal policy is something I'm really keen on, but I'm also happy for it to be kicked into the long grass for a few years hidden in a commission or something.

Do not mention Catalonia.
 

RellikSK

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,601

No idea which demographic this is aimed at?

Edit: seems to be from a month ago though.
Headline is a bit clickbaitey. The issue is with treating disability and non-disability lives equally.

It is currently legal to terminate a pregnancy up to full-term on the grounds of disability while the upper limit is 24 weeks if there is no disability. I personally do not agree with this position and agree with the words of the Disability Rights Commission that “the context in which parents choose whether to have a child should be one in which disability and non-disability are valued equally”.
 
Oct 27, 2017
481
I don't actually think getting rid of the 4 hour target is a bad idea, it's not a great metric, just depends what it's replaced with.

What matters in A&E is that patients are triaged quickly so the ones that need to be seen quickly are, more than 1/2 the people there don't actually need to be so it's inconvenient if they are there a long time but it wouldn't be doing anyone any physical harm.

If you matched the wait time with the severity of the symptoms you'd have a much better measure of how much harm is being caused by waiting times.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,332
London
I don't actually think getting rid of the 4 hour target is a bad idea, it's not a great metric, just depends what it's replaced with.

What matters in A&E is that patients are triaged quickly so the ones that need to be seen quickly are, more than 1/2 the people there don't actually need to be so it's inconvenient if they are there a long time but it wouldn't be doing anyone any physical harm.

If you matched the wait time with the severity of the symptoms you'd have a much better measure of how much harm is being caused by waiting times.
Priority is always given to those that need it, the 4 hr target is useful in a system where the emergency department is making up for issues in the rest of the NHS.

It's more convenient for the government than patients or staff that will still have to deal with pressure.
 
Oct 27, 2017
481
Priority is always given to those that need it.
Exactly it is, that's why it's impossible for the 4 hour target to be hit, in fact if you saw an A&E hitting it you'd be highly suspicious of what they had to do to get there.

It would be much better to measure the people who urgently needed to be seen but weren't.


Don't get me wrong, hospitals are missing all their targets by larger margins every year since 2010, so it doesn't really make any difference if they change this one or not, but I do think the premise of this one is highly flawed and it's just based around setting a baseline expectation for patients and not any actual clinical need.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,941
Sheffield, UK
Exactly it is, that's why it's impossible for the 4 hour target to be hit
The target is an average though, isn't it? So making low priority patients wait and treating urgent patients quickly should balance out in the end.

If a hospital doesn't have enough resources, their triage policies won't have any effect on the average wait time. If I saw an A&E hitting the target, I'd assume it was staffed by super robots or getting way more money than other hospitals.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,622

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,332
London
The person he appointed should have the gumption to realise a lot of people died, and even If she's 110% committed to doing the right thing, it's just not a good look. So I'm already questioning the value of their judgement.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,008
To be honest I just made the assumption that she was chosen *because* of those links, knowing that their actual goal here is always going to be damage limitation.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,730
Good grief Lisa Nandy's comments on Scotland and Catalonia are disgraceful. She's also jumped on the bandwagon where any criticism of Israel is not allowed.

Labour can go fcuk themselves if they wanna go down this path.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,204
Yep got proper soured on Nandy with that bit. Oh Scotland aye let's just let the police handle that wink wink
tbf Wigan's full of dickheads
 

Atrophis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
738
Notts, UK
Labour membership are going to fuck it and vote in RLB aren’t they?

Would be amusing to see all those on the right of the party suddenly getting their knives out after talking up bringing the party together. Don’t fancy her chances of ever being PM though.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
RLB being voted in would just show that the party really haven’t learned anything from the election.

Corbyn is really unpopular?

Let’s stick in someone who was practically his right hand woman and everywhere during the last campaign that ended in a dismal loss.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,515
Are Labour on the Whisky, RLB consigns them to opposition for at least another 10 years...

I almost miss the chaos of a minority Gov and Brexit. Everything is now dead, the Tories control the message, nothing important getting discussed, all we hear about is some prat in the Royal Family and why can Mark Francois ring the bells of doom
 
Oct 27, 2017
481
I didn't realise Momentum had officially started backing RLB, I guess that's why the poll is the way it is...hate to agree with the Blairites but they are right, the ignorance in the left of the party is pretty staggering.
 

softfocus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
384
Momentum always backed RLB. She's good but I think she needs to be seen more before I believe she has leadership potential.
Starmer is still the top person. Seems to be the popular one outside of the Labour bubble. Some socialists believe he'll bring New Labour back but there's nothing I've seen to believe that will happen.
If you hate the Tories and want to vote for the next Labour leader. Join before Monday!
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,204
Only 27% switched to tory because of leadership. But I'm not sure why this argument exists that RLB is continuity Corbyn, but Starmer isn't? They were both foregrounded in media appearances and on the front bench for years. We're not getting another GE for 5 years, if RLB wins and carries over Corbyn's unpopularity we'd find out before voting starts.

also for the youngins they're gonna want someone whose name will fit seven nation army