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Aye, Corbyn is yesterday's man now, i don't mind what he said but he has been made to look like he's on the Iranian payroll so it doesn't help much either.
I wonder what RLB did to upset McCluskey so much, it sounds like he's asking everyone and anyone to be the not-Long-Bailey leadership candidate.
I don't think much is going on besides not putting their eggs all in one basket, McDonnell is going with Burgon instead of Rayner.
Look, I'm going after this, because it is a pointless discussion here. But if what he said is fine, but he shouldn't have said it (despite the fact this was under repeated questioning in an interview, and if he'd not commented the story would be his terrorist refusal to comment), then maybe that's not his problem? If the only acceptable response for a Labour leader is to agree with and support random Trump assassinations of foreign leaders, maaaaaybe there is a problem with our media's position? Maaaaaybe have a think about why you want someone to beat the Tories, if it's not to do things differently.
But whatever, I'm a ruining Corbynism cultist or whatever it is this week. Later.
But whatever, I'm a ruining Corbynism cultist or whatever it is this week. Later.
I think it would just be more effective coming from a Robin Cook type figure, the Corbyn brand is far too tarnished at this point.
They've never ran multiple candidates before and it seems risky to start splitting their PLP and CLP nominations. But I suppose beyond that with the way voting is handled there's nothing wrong with having a couple of favourable candidates on the ballot. It still strikes me as odd that the head of Unite - who would be looking for someone closely aligned with Corbyn - keeps asking other MPs (notably men) to put their hat in the ring. Especially given Long-Bailey has Lansman as an advisor and rated Corybn 10/10 (lol).
I think people buy in too much to the idea that the left of the party is like some Stalinist cult blindly following the next chosen one, i mean Starmer has one of Corbyn's top men on his team. i don't see anything odd going on really.
I wonder if there's a legal case that the Scottish government can push forward.
(Although I think the whole referendum and independence process will be political)
Eh, I'd agree there are situations where the leader of a political party has to self-censor, but this wasn't one of them. Americans actions were dangerous, and god help us if we don't have a single politician willing to describe them as such.
I mean he wasn't put forward as a spokesman on the issue, he was asked his opinion and he gave it
That's why I said it didn't bother me, I just don't think it carries much weight either.
I like Clive, but it looks like he won't get enough MP support to get on the ballot unfortunately
Labour as usual showing why they will always be irrelevant in Scotland. How damn difficult is it just to say let the Scottish people decide.
i think the really interesting question is whether it's because
a) he doesn't rate her leadership skills at all and wants to get off a sinking ship which risks losing him power vs more centre-left unions
or
b) RLB has moved away from a unite policy position risking diminishing his potential influence over her (perhaps an unwillingness to be more anti-immigration? hence promotion of lavery)
I don't disagree, but second referendums are just not popular it seems! Same as Brexit, if people wanted to leave still, what's the problem, but they get antsy about them. Regardless of how much they may be due.
Is it not basically fear that without Scotland they will never be in power in the rest of the UK. Either way you end up in the same place, see now.
They basically think if Scotland gets a 2nd Ref, Yes will win which leaves them screwed in England, Wales, not getting a majority in Westminster.
We have to accept the reality. No point fighting it anymore.
Now it's about getting Labour ready for government. I have no doubt that we will rejoin the EU within the next 20 years anyway.
Any rebels either side?
I wouldn't count on it. One argument I recently heard from someone on the matter was that Switzerland had a razor thin referendum on joinining and voted against it, now there is a very comfortable majority to not join and they have found their place and comfort in how things are now for the most part.
Yeah, once we are out then the grass roots level campaign to rejoin can begin. It's not as if the almost half of the country who voted to remain will disappear.
That may not end up being particularly comparable. It's going to depend on how Brexit is perceived to have gone. If Brexit goes 'not that badly' or well, then obviously Rejoin won't have a chance, but if Brexit goes badly and is viewed, like Iraq is viewed, as a mistake, it will be remarkable how quickly the sentiment shifts against us having left. The majority who already think we shouldn't leave will be emboldened and the leavers of today will disintegrate.
The questions are... how badly does Brexit have to go for that sentiment to occur & will that occur?
The situation in Switzerland isn't really comparable though. Said referendum happened almost 30 years ago (when the EU didn't exist in its present form; the referendum was actually about whether to join the European Economic Area or not). The bespoke deals between Switzerland and the EU were subsequently negotiated a) in an entirely different political climate (it was a time when the EU could still afford to be quite forthcoming and generous) and b) under the assumption (at least by the EU) that these were only temporary arrangements leading up to Switzerland eventually becoming a full member state.
As the latter is no longer a realistic prospect, the EU has now been putting the Swiss government under *a lot* of pressure to at least turn those bespoke deals into a more dynamic arrangement (one where Switzerland would automatically adopt new EU regulations and stuff like that). Under the current arrangement, every single adjustment has to be "manually" negotiated between the two parties and that's a pain in the arse for everyone involved. However, such a new, more dynamic agreement would have to withstand a referendum in Switzerland, of course, and that's going to be very, very tricky. The latter is why all that the Swiss government has been doing over the past few years is stalling for time ... with the EU becoming more and more impatient as a result, of course...
Long story short: The Swiss situation really isn't comparable to Brexit Britain. OTOH, the country has those 20-years-old bespoke deals in place and a clear 65-70% majority of the populace wants to keep them. OTOH, they're also decisively against becoming a proper EU member state and are rather skeptical about this more recent idea of a more dynamic arragement. But given that the EU is very much pushing Switzerland to adopt the latter, I fully expect them to treat the UK in a similar way (Basically: "No preferential treatement without full and automatic regulatory aligment with EU standards.").
What happened? I tried to search but it looks like they requested for their account to be deleted?
Nah, i think he got a bit carried away explaining to Black american voters that they aren't demanding more out of their politicians, nothing terrible just Scotsplaining or whatever you would call it. unless you hear stuff from him off site.
norway's full membership campaigners have hit a similar wall. ultimately the brexiteers are correct that the uk isn't fully comfortable culturally with being part of the EU parliament and sees itself as distinct, especially with the move towards increased federalisation and the pre-2016 weird relationship where we push against federalisation and refuse to join euro & schengen.
future labour and tory governments gradually moving to replicating the closer economic and regulatory ties we had while never becoming a full member ever again feels like the most likely future. i think people will move on when it becomes less of a culture war lightning rod and climate issues are a bigger priority. most liberals really really didn't care about the EU pre-referendum and will easily go back to not caring.
"dismissing concerns about racism", i don't think he meant to but he didn't stop when people were getting fed up with his argument about American politics.
^Yeah, i was going to wind him up about Jess Phillips but he didn't respond within a nanosecond so i knew something was up.
You'd have had to admit voting Tory on election results night to get that length of ban.
Why is it disgusting? Scottish Labour has to do something to become relevant again.
i'm just messing around and hoping Audioboxer is still reading the thread, i have been in favour of a proper federal system for England and the UK for a long time.
Tbf, whatever they're doing at the moment certainly hasn't been working for them.
The more support for independence the better.
I'd love for us to distance ourselves as far away from Boris Johnson as possible.
edit: not sure if posted but saw this on reddit:
I'd love for us to distance ourselves as far away from Boris Johnson as possible.
edit: not sure if posted but saw this on reddit:
I think Labour will settle on a second referendum but not just a straight in/out question, i hope so anyway.