UK Political Era |OT1| Dis United Kingdom

Moosichu · Jan 10, 2020

All of the economic arguments (and some of the political) arguments against Brexit apply to Scottish Independence, ironically because Brexit is happening. An independent Scotland that is part of the EU is only really workable in a situation where the UK has incredibly open trade with the EU - because an rUK-Scotland border would devastate Scotland, therefore this would leave the Scottish government in a situation where the rUK is dictating all the terms on trade, and unable to join the EU. Which would be much less democratic for the citizens of Scotland and lose them a lot of power.

Which really sucks, Scotland is in a mess not of its own-doing and the only exit option could make that mess worse for them. :/

SMD · Jan 10, 2020

ronpontelle · Jan 10, 2020

SMD said:
Surely you've got it the wrong way round?

If Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU then if it starts to grow faster than the rest of the UK, particularly the North, then you're going to get a lot of competition and potential brain drain - companies might prefer to park on the Scottish border and jump through the hoops for the UK rather than vice versa.

The thinking is that Scotland does huge amounts of trade with the rest of the UK, if Scotland leaves and then can't trade as freely with the UK because Scotland is in the EU and the UK has a restrictive trade deal with the EU, it's not as good for Scotland. At least in the short to medium term. It'll certainly be disruptive.

Who knows how it'll all pan out, but like brexit, it's about feeling rather than finances for many people.

Arkestry · Jan 10, 2020

Fucking hell apparently the Extinction Rebellion has been placed on the extremist watchlist by counter-terrorism police. That put sit alongside neo-nazis and pro-terrorist Islamic groups. Lovely.

softfocus · Jan 10, 2020

Apparently Starmer has hired some idiot (Matt Pound) who has campaigned against a "hard left", who's been pictured in a shirt with "Zionist shitlord" printed on it.
Why can't Labour vet their staff better to avoid problematic shitheads getting in and fucking things up?

FliX · Jan 10, 2020

Arkestry said:
Fucking hell apparently the Extinction Rebellion has been placed on the extremist watchlist by counter-terrorism police. That put sit alongside neo-nazis and pro-terrorist Islamic groups. Lovely.

shockednotshocked.gif.

So I guess understandably this thread has died since the election. and the settling of The Question.
So is everything just to pre brexit mundaety in UK politics?

Stuart444 · Jan 10, 2020

FliXFantatier said:
shockednotshocked.gif.

So I guess understandably this thread has died since the election. and the settling of The Question.
So is everything just to pre brexit mundaety in UK politics?

Things will probably ramp up in here after the end of the month when brexit actually starts.

PJV3 · Jan 10, 2020

softfocus said:
Apparently Starmer has hired some idiot (Matt Pound) who has campaigned against a "hard left", who's been pictured in a shirt with "Zionist shitlord" printed on it.
Why can't Labour vet their staff better to avoid problematic shitheads getting in and fucking things up?

That's a weird mix, he's going to be working under Kat Fletcher, who was a key member of the Corbyn team at the start of his rise to power, i'm expecting fireworks at some point.

Ando · Jan 10, 2020

starmer's appointments do represent a cross-section of the party and nod towards his great strength which is the potential to unify the party around a single direction

PJV3 · Jan 10, 2020

Ando said:
starmer's appointments do represent a cross-section of the party and nod towards his great strength which is the potential to unify the party around a single direction

Yeah, it's just they are politicians at the end of the day, hopefully Starmer can pull it off because the party desperately needs to bury the hatchet.

CD_93 · Jan 11, 2020

Starmer's campaign launch speech was good.

Calabi · Jan 11, 2020

Arkestry said:
Fucking hell apparently the Extinction Rebellion has been placed on the extremist watchlist by counter-terrorism police. That put sit alongside neo-nazis and pro-terrorist Islamic groups. Lovely.

Of course they have, their probably classed as a threat above those other groups knowing our establishment.

PJV3 · Jan 11, 2020

CD_93 said:
Starmer's campaign launch speech was good.

Yeah, Im not sure about taking personal charge of antisemitism and having the files on his desk, feels like something that could come back to bite him, and Corbyn seems to be in trouble for being involved at all.

Ravensmash · Jan 11, 2020

Arkestry said:
Fucking hell apparently the Extinction Rebellion has been placed on the extremist watchlist by counter-terrorism police. That put sit alongside neo-nazis and pro-terrorist Islamic groups. Lovely.

They were, but they've rowed back on it now and are going to remove them:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...emist-ideology-police-prevent-scheme-guidance

Claim it was an error of judgement.

WillyGubbins · Jan 12, 2020

Surprisingly unbiased reporting by the BBC here :

Independence march in Glasgow

Fantastic turnout despite the shocking weather. It was a good day.

Deleted member 5028 · Jan 12, 2020

Hamrub said:
Surprisingly unbiased reporting by the BBC here :

Independence march in Glasgow

Fantastic turnout despite the shocking weather. It was a good day.

Brexit is happening. That's the only thing they needed to get past to resume a modicum of partisan free reporting.

PJV3 · Jan 12, 2020

SlipperyFishes said:
Brexit is happening. That's the only thing they needed to get past to resume a modicum of partisan free reporting.

Barring some huge shift in a Scottish election(don't know when they will next happen) Boris can safely ignore the SNP for the next five years as well.

AHA-Lambda · Jan 12, 2020

PJV3 said:
Barring some huge shift in a Scottish election(don't know when they will next happen) Boris can safely ignore the SNP for the next five years as well.

2021

PJV3 · Jan 12, 2020

AHA-Lambda said:
2021

Cheers, should be an interesting one if Labour do move to referendum with multiple options, it's risky and could benefit the Tories or finally get the party back on track.

Boris is going to struggle if 60%+ are voting for parties up for a new vote.

Dyno · Jan 12, 2020

My wife got her PIP reassessment yesterday and was denied again. So now that's over a year wait for a tribunal to probably only be denied again. And we will likely be homeless before that and just die over the next winter anyway. And I doubt we will wait for it to reach that point and just take it into our own hands anyway.

Stuart444 · Jan 12, 2020

Dyno said:
My wife got her PIP reassessment yesterday and was denied again. So now that's over a year wait for a tribunal to probably only be denied again. And we will likely be homeless before that and just die over the next winter anyway. And I doubt we will wait for it to reach that point and just take it into our own hands anyway.

:(

*solidarity hug*

JediTimeBoy · Jan 12, 2020

Dyno said:
My wife got her PIP reassessment yesterday and was denied again. So now that's over a year wait for a tribunal to probably only be denied again. And we will likely be homeless before that and just die over the next winter anyway. And I doubt we will wait for it to reach that point and just take it into our own hands anyway.

Why over a year, or do you mean a year since you initially applied (or that in total it will be a year by the time you get to tribunal) ?

Dyno · Jan 12, 2020

JediTimeBoy said:
Why over a year, or do you mean a year since you initially applied (or that in total it will be a year by the time you get to tribunal) ?

When we spoke to the CAB last about it they warned us the waiting time for tribunals for this in our area is a year and 3 months due to how backed up they are. We're already 7 months into the process now so it will be closer to 2 years by then

Stuart444 said:
:(

*solidarity hug*

The only shining light is when my father had to go through the same he was called up a few weeks after he filed for the tribunal and accepted so perhaps we will get lucky too, but I'm not expecting it.

Stuart444 · Jan 12, 2020

Dyno said:
The only shining light is when my father had to go through the same he was called up a few weeks after he filed for the tribunal and accepted so perhaps we will get lucky too, but I'm not expecting it.

Well my wife is in the same situation atm, hoping for a short wait for the Tribunal but like you, not expecting it.

Deleted member 5028 · Jan 12, 2020

Let's see what the Gov do here

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/regional-airline-flybe-in-frantic-bid-to-stave-off-collapse-11907407

This is the only way for the south coast to connect with NI outside of London.

JonnyDBrit · Jan 12, 2020

SlipperyFishes said:
Let's see what the Gov do here

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/regional-airline-flybe-in-frantic-bid-to-stave-off-collapse-11907407
This is the only way for the south coast to connect with NI outside of London.

Dang, flew with them for my interview in Aberdeen just last month.

I do wonder what a government intervention would even look like here

JediTimeBoy · Jan 13, 2020

Dyno said:
When we spoke to the CAB last about it they warned us the waiting time for tribunals for this in our area is a year and 3 months due to how backed up they are. We're already 7 months into the process now so it will be closer to 2 years by then

The only shining light is when my father had to go through the same he was called up a few weeks after he filed for the tribunal and accepted so perhaps we will get lucky too, but I'm not expecting it.

Oh wow, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you get your tribunal date much sooner than that.

Arkestry · Jan 13, 2020

Such a shame it looks like Lewis isn't going to get enough Nominees. I think he'd be really worthwhile in the leadership race. Much better than fucking Jess Phillips.

PJV3 · Jan 13, 2020

Priti Patel is a muppet

She is defending putting the extinction rebellion on the terror list, plonker. The herds of gammon will love it though.

Kalor · Jan 13, 2020

It's weird seeing all the NI leaders/MPs play nice with Boris this morning when hating him is probably the one thing that unites everyone in Stormont at this point. Got to get that money somehow considering we really need it.

rabathehutch · Jan 13, 2020

Clive Lewis has dropped out the race to allow his nominees to pick another candidate before 14:30. But he only had five or something so it's not going to change anything. Not sure why he gained so little traction I thought he had some decent ideas it's a shame it would have been good to have him on the ballot and at hustings.

I think Thornbury has ran an embarrassing campaign; she's the most experienced of all the candidates and has just floundered. No coherent message, did really poorly in interviews and couldn't address the attacks on her.

Arkestry · Jan 13, 2020

Yeah really sad to see Lewis drop out but he didn't really have a chance at this point. Of everyone left over, I guess Starmer seems to be the most promising, although I've got a big bag of caveats.

Chem · Jan 13, 2020

I still believe that it should've been a fresh batch of candidates because apart from Stramer, Lewis and Nandy (to a degree), none of them appeal to me and I suspect that's the same for a lot of people.

PJV3 · Jan 13, 2020

Chem said:
I still believe that it should've been a fresh batch of candidates because apart from Stramer, Lewis and Nandy (to a degree), none of them appeal to me and I suspect that's the same for a lot of people.

It's not easy after a wipeout at an election, the party needs someone to steady nerves and rebuild confidence. I don't see people being in the mood to take a gamble and put 10 more Tory years as a more than very likely outcome.

CampFreddie · Jan 13, 2020

Arkestry said:
Yeah really sad to see Lewis drop out but he didn't really have a chance at this point. Of everyone left over, I guess Starmer seems to be the most promising, although I've got a big bag of caveats.

Clive is a proud remainer and won't take any shit regarding racism. Labour don't want to talk about either of those, lest they offend their ex-voters in some Northern-stereotype town.
I also see RLB is in the news again promising to abolish the House of Lords. This is pretty bad messaging. Few people really give a shit about constitutional issues, regardless of what they say. Focusing on big lefty political issues instead of policies that directly affect people is (a major reason) why Labour lost a lot of votes. I know RLB was mocked during the election for dodging questions on how to help Yorkshire flood victims by redirecting it to make a point about climate change.

Stamer's position as a 'unity' candidate is almost certainly going to win him the leadership. His toughest test will be avoiding the infighting and drama between his staff that seem to come from very different positions in the party.

Moosichu · Jan 13, 2020

SMD said:
Surely you've got it the wrong way round?

If Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU then if it starts to grow faster than the rest of the UK, particularly the North, then you're going to get a lot of competition and potential brain drain - companies might prefer to park on the Scottish border and jump through the hoops for the UK rather than vice versa.

Sorry for the slow reply here. The answer is no, because Scotland trades much more with the rest of the UK then it does the EU, source:

Scotland still conducts the majority of its trade within the UK: in 2014, Scotland's exports totalled £76 billion, of which £48.5 billion (64%) was with constituent nations of the UK, £11.6 billion with the rest of the European Union (EU), and £15.2 billion with other parts of the world.

This is why the economic argument as to why leaving the EU so Britain can trade more with the "rest of the world" is also so dumb. The UK's biggest possible trading partner *is* the EU, so leaving the EU to trade more with other nations doesn't make a lick of sense.

Similarly, Scotland leaving the UK to be part of the EU doesn't make sense, unless the UK and the EU have open trading with each other, Scotland would be negatively impacted by this. (rUK would be as well, similar to how Brexit harms the EU. But because the EU is larger than the UK, it is less affected by it than the UK is. Same deal with Scotland and rUK).

*Splinter · Jan 13, 2020

rabathehutch said:
Clive Lewis has dropped out the race to allow his nominees to pick another candidate before 14:30. But he only had five or something so it's not going to change anything. Not sure why he gained so little traction I thought he had some decent ideas it's a shame it would have been good to have him on the ballot and at hustings.

I think Thornbury has ran an embarrassing campaign; she's the most experienced of all the candidates and has just floundered. No coherent message, did really poorly in interviews and couldn't address the attacks on her.

I think Clive pulling out helped Thornberry get enough nominations to be on the ballot

rabathehutch · Jan 13, 2020

*Splinter said:
I think Clive pulling out helped Thornberry get enough nominations to be on the ballot

Yeah it looks like a few moved over to help her squeak through. I do wonder what person nominates Lewis and then decides Thornbury is their next pick - I suppose it's just people who want as many names on the ballot?

Chem · Jan 13, 2020

PJV3 said:
It's not easy after a wipeout at an election, the party needs someone to steady nerves and rebuild confidence. I don't see people being in the mood to take a gamble and put 10 more Tory years as a more than very likely outcome.

Some of us said that about the first decade of Tory rule and look what happened.

Corbyn gave me hope mostly because he was a newcomer (A newcomer to people like me who aren't deep into Labour).

WonderBoyd89 · Jan 13, 2020

I don't think Jess Phillips getting into a war on words with Nicola Sturgeon on Twitter is doing her any favours.

Koukalaka · Jan 13, 2020

WonderBoyd89 said:
I don't think Jess Phillips getting into a war on words with Nicola Sturgeon on Twitter is doing her any favours.

Phillips seems to have at least partially taken on-board the suggestion from right-wing media that the only way Labour can come back is by throwing minorities, young people and Scots under the bus.

Which is akin to getting advice from a shark on how to avoid being eaten by sharks.

PJV3 · Jan 13, 2020

Chem said:
Some of us said that about the first decade of Tory rule and look what happened.

Corbyn gave me hope mostly because he was a newcomer (A newcomer to people like me who aren't deep into Labour).

He's done some good hopefully, the party is thinking more seriously about policy again and talking.

Koukalaka said:
Phillips seems to have at least partially taken on-board the suggestion from right-wing media that the only way Labour can come back is by throwing minorities, young people and Scots under the bus.

Which is akin to getting advice from a shark on how to avoid being eaten by sharks.

I don't think she believes she can win the leadership, but she won't even make the shadow cabinet if she carries on being a plank.

Zaph · Jan 13, 2020

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...ected-racist-press-coverage-says-priti-patel/

Is there any end to her shuckin and jivin? Feel like I need to apologise on behalf of brown people - obviously nobody in her life ever told her she'll never be considered white by her tory idols, she's just a useful idiot for them.

Arkestry · Jan 14, 2020

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-to-alert-eu-over-75000-criminal-convictions

Pretty astonishing and I'm sure will help the EU realise that maybe we aren't exactly a healthy partner and they're well shot of us, tbh.

jelly · Jan 14, 2020

That's pretty nuts and how is telling the truth more embarassing than lying in this regard, you think that was never going to come out.

A Home Office spokesperson said: "Work is already under way with the police to resolve this issue as quickly as possible. Last year, the UK sent over 30,000 conviction notifications through ECRIS to EU member states and received over 16,000 from the EU, helping ensure serious criminals were brought to justice."

What's with the statistics. If the UK got 16,000 from the EU and the UK had 75,000 + or - the 30,000 if that's a backlog or ones they didn't divulge as mentioned, do we have disproportiante amount of EU criminal scumbags?

Mivey · Jan 14, 2020

jelly said:
What's with the statistics. If the UK got 16,000 from the EU and the UK had 75,000 + or - the 30,000 if that's a backlog or ones they didn't divulge as mentioned, do we have disproportiante amount of EU criminal scumbags?

All that really tells you is that more people from EU are in the UK to work, then they are UK nationals in the EU. I would assume there's no major deviation in how likely it is that anybody commits crimes, or at least is caught for them. At least when speaking about EU and UK nationals

WorldofMiku · Jan 14, 2020

Johnson rejects Indyref2

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51106796

Puroresu_kid · Jan 14, 2020

WorldofMiku said:
Johnson rejects Indyref2

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51106796

Nation of equals they call it lol.

Westminster as usual feels its place is to determine the future of Scotland.

Liz Truss is at it again. This women truly is dumb. Other than the Slave trade, colonialism, stealing of resources etc yep Britain was a champion of global free trade.

Ravensmash · Jan 14, 2020

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...uffs-us-presentation-on-huawei-security-risks

This surprised me a bit.

excowboy · Jan 14, 2020

RE Labour leadership election - good podcast here from the New Statesman last week on the runners and riders. Era might enjoy that it opens with a ten minute shoeing of Jess Phillips campaign! ;)

New Statesman - Labour leadership special

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