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UK PoliticsERA |OT1| - Strong and Stable Government? No. Coalition Of Chaos! PART 2

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,729
London
The contrast between Tom Watson and John McDonnell's reaction to the Berger situation is something else :(
Nah, I don't like group punishments, I would stop the deselection stuff and investigate any abusive behaviour, chuck out anyone being a bigot and then let the local party decide if they want her or not.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,218
Nah, I don't like group punishments, I would stop the deselection stuff and investigate any abusive behaviour, chuck out anyone being a bigot and then let the local party decide if they want her or not.
I agree, the CLP should be temporarily suspended, while the investigation takes place. The guy who said disruptive zionist should be kicked straightaway to make an example of him.

I do think local parties have the right to deselect their MPs but they also shouldn’t bring the Labour party into disripute and should consider the timing and the consequences. The guys who triggered the deselection are complete idiots because like it or not the optics look super bad.
 
Nov 6, 2017
725
Berger refused to say the country would be better off under a Labour (Corbyn) government and has made no effort to distance herself from this creation of a "middle ground" party.

She's a die in the wool Blairite who's never liked Corbyn.

I don't think it's a particularly bad thing for her local party to question if she should be their local representative.

However, the timing and the optics of it are all wrong and there's also the worry she's been questioned for the wrong reasons.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,500
The fact Berger repeatedly went on TV and radio and doesn't deny she's going to jump ship at the first opportunity will now no doubt be lost because some shitheel racist just wanted to stir the pot and everyone was happy to fan the flames.

Another spectacular own goal which will do absolutely nothing for anyone.

edit: meanwhile you've got people like Christopher Chope above still making decisions
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,729
London
The fact Berger repeatedly went on TV and radio and doesn't deny she's going to jump ship at the first opportunity will now no doubt be lost because some shitheel racist just wanted to stir the pot and everyone was happy to fan the flames.

Another spectacular own goal which will do absolutely nothing for anyone.

edit: meanwhile you've got people like Christopher Chope above still making decisions
That's my main problem with Tom Watson suspending the party idea, she's clearly checked out of the party in her mind, she is just hanging around to use her status if the new party happens.

She's in the wrong city to pull that off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,684
That's my main problem with Tom Watson suspending the party idea, she's clearly checked out of the party in her mind, she is just hanging around to use her status if the new party happens.

She's in the wrong city to pull that off.
Anyone who says they want to leave a political party should face deselection.

Owen Smith can get in the bin too.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,729
London
Anyone who says they want to leave a political party should face deselection.

Owen Smith can get in the bin too.
I like the idea that the party leadership asking MPs not to break away and form a new is party is beyond the pale. After the SDP they now what will happen, they will fade into oblivion and only the Tories will benefit.

It looks like her CLP are doing the sensible thing and cancelling the vote for now after the zionist nonsense.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,218
That's my main problem with Tom Watson suspending the party idea, she's clearly checked out of the party in her mind, she is just hanging around to use her status if the new party happens.

She's in the wrong city to pull that off.
If she is going to leave in the future let her leave and the membership can select someone new and not look like they kicked out a Jewish lady out of the party. The optics look super bad.

Corbyn not backing a 2nd vote and this antisemetism crisis will lead the Labour party doing shit in a GE if it comes.
 
Dec 2, 2017
1,649
This whole thing with Luciana Berger is a total fucking mess coming at absolutely the wrong time, but it's been in the post for a while now.

Obviously there is a problem with antisemitism in her CLP. Whether it's just that one nutter and his wife or more is currently unknown, but it shouldn't be tolerated under any circumstances. I don't think you'll ever be able to weed out those types with a 100% success rate, but when they show their ass there should be consequences.

But at the same time Berger has basically checked out, mentally at least, as a Labour MP - and is refusing to deny making moves to be part of a new centrist party which would take seats from Labour in the short term, and probably fracture the vote at the next GE. I don't think that can stand, considering her constituency has a child poverty rate of nearly 30% thanks to Tory austerity measures.

Suspending the whole Liverpool Wavertree CLP would be overkill, and I'm not sure why Watson is suggesting it outside of making a display of himself. It's the big, dramatic moves that get the most attention I guess.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,154
Please bear with this if it's stupid or obvious.

Amorosa was on the radio this morning talking about the AMI/National Enquirer scandal. And she said something as an aside that hit me like a ton of bricks.

I've ignored National Enquirer as a big player in the 2016 election (outside of the Trump catch and kills we otherwise would have seen, which were probably more numerous than Stormy and Playboy) because it has a shitty reputation, only idiots buy it and print publishing is a total deadend street. But I was ignoring something I know better than most, having come from print publishing and understanding how newsstands work - and I should have been furious and taken it more seriously.

In the run up to the Election in 2016, National Enquirer ran 50 false but crazy alarming Hillary covers and cover stories. 50! FIFTY! More than any other single subject in decades, more frequently.

Now sure, low information voters buy it and sure they vote Trump because they think Hillary has cancer, or is a Chinese plant, or whatever it was last week. But they were pretty light on totally stupid shit like "HILLARY IS ALIEN WARLORD" and stuck to health, mental faculties and all these quite damning but small beef relative to their normal Batboy stuff. In hindsight the strategy is obvious, that's not what I realized though.

National Enquirer headlines about quasi-feasible Hillary negatives appeared fifty times on purpose at the best cover locations in America - newsstands of course, but really the end-caps of every single supermarket and grocer and Wal-Mart in America, exposing lots of smart liberals and conservatives to headlines they ignored for the most part, but also a fantastic number of low information non political moms and dads and families and grandmas and so on. Almost every day. Almost every single time they went to the grocery store. Standing, bored, waiting for their turn, glancing at Jennifer Anniston's lovelife - and Hillary's endless health and scandal scares.

I mention Jennifer Anniston because I have never read an issue of National Enquirer, but apparently I "know" she is "unlucky in love and alone"

In that sense it's an extension of a two plus decade long smear campaign against Hillary but the sheer density and literally in-your-face ubiuquity of that is really hard to accomplish anywhere else, and for a relatively bargain price. It's a paid advertisement to market Hillary's negatives, at a stupendous scale.


AMI and Kushner and Trump might be directly connected to the murder and dismemberment of a WaPo journalist - and are certainly directly connected to the theft from and blackmail of the world's richest man. And National Enquirer may actually have contributed much more materially to Trump's election - or rather, Hillary's loss to people who didn't know much about her, but knew in their lizard brain or thought they remembered for CERTAIN she was ill, and crazy, and crooked and so on.

It all adds up obviously, but I only ever thought about their editorial as one of a thousand cuts, but it might have been a gash.
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2017
1,218
Wonder if they’ll actually be a centrist party or just soft Tory.
If their main pull is being Pro-EU, then Corbyn would be stupid and a complete idiot to not back a 2nd referendum to pull wind away from the party as they get ready to announce themselves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,500
JK Rowling is trash. Still having a laugh at them all sat around deciding they should run the country though just because

Anyway, follow up to the Luciana Berger motions a few days ago.

 
Oct 25, 2017
3,729
London
JK Rowling is trash. Still having a laugh at them all sat around deciding they should run the country though just because

Anyway, follow up to the Luciana Berger motions a few days ago.

Everyone involved needs to take a deep breath, it really shouldn't be this difficult.
 
OP
OP
Dan

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,067
Getting a lot of noise indicating that something finally might be happening re the centre leaning Labour MPs actually doing something substantial this week....
 
Dec 5, 2018
1,228
If they leave it basically guarantees a decade of solid conservative rule. Them fucking off might make the party purer but it also utterly screws any chance of winning. That’s how our system works.
Well they should be smart enough to know that. Yet they keep threatening it. I don’t care about making the party purer, but you can only put up with someone saying ‘I’m leaving, honest!’ before wanting them to just get it over with
 
Dec 2, 2017
1,649
They are aiming to completey fuck over Labour by splitting the anti-Tory vote in marginal seats.

Well I guess that solves the issue of potentially being humiliated by losing to a Labour candidate in their former patch.

However it does feel like throwing the Vs to the constituents. "Sod your 30% child poverty rate, Liverpool Wavertree, I'm off to occupy the radical centre ground of British politics!"
 
Oct 28, 2017
714
A small number of MPs splintering off might be good for the internal cohesion of the Labour Party tbh. It gives moderate / soft left Corbynsceptic MPs something to define themselves against.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,054

Looks like it's happening then, wonder if they'll have some solid policies hashed out at this point or if it's just "we aren't like those people."

Criticism of Labour is gonna get a lot louder, gonna be interesting to see what comes of it now they've put their money where their mouth is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,270
Listening to Radio 4 just now, they think it’s going to be around half a dozen MPs - Chuka amongst them. Don’t think it will be a creation of a party as with the SDP in the 80s.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,499
Chesire, UK
As I said in the Brexit thread, they can all do one.

All this harrumphing and hollering about deselection and bullying only to turn around and jump ship is pathetic, and shows it up for the performative bollocks it always was.

None of them will do the honourable thing and run in a by-election in their current constituency, because they all know they'd get fucking demolished. Fuck the lot of them.