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UK PoliticsERA |OT1| - Strong and Stable Government? No. Coalition Of Chaos! PART 2
- Thread starter Dan
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I had to google to make sure the chicken shop thing was real. At what point did we start living in a Armando Iannuci sketch?
I just wonder how the whole thing came about because to do any sort of campaign like this they should have to put a business plan forward that has evidence and reasoning for their plans with tangible outcomes.
Looking extremely racist and targeting only chicken take away shops doesn't feel like it would have a good business plan attached to it at all.
Just amazing this would get signed off.
That seems like a pretty good way to come off as a whole bunch of racists without doing anything to address knife crime.
Man, if only the greens were a viable option here...
Man, if only the greens were a viable option here...
Proximity to chicken shops is literally the single biggest proximity risk factor for youth violence in multiple boroughs. If you had to run a campaign in one location, it would be chicken shops ahead of everything else. There is an absolute statistical link between proximity to a chicken shop and violence.
If you are basing your campaign purely on data, chicken shops are literally top of the list for where to run it.
If you are basing your campaign purely on data, chicken shops are literally top of the list for where to run it.
I know the reason you're trying to imply, but there's also a metric fuckton of chicken shops in poorer areas where knife crime is most prevelant.
Yeah but what evidence and research would they have used to justify this?
As I said to Beef, for gov comms you have to do a business case which usually follows the OASIS model and that usually requires a bit more than 'poor areas have lots of chicken shops'.
I literally have maps of my borough showing a direct correlation between chicken shops and knife violence. It's a higher correlating factor than mental health. There is a ton of evidence behind chicken shops specifically being an issue.
Morley's, where this started in south london,in particular has a really bad reputation for being used as bases for county lines and where a huge amount of conflicts start. It's unique to chicken shops specifically as well - it's not all fast food places.
Obviously the chicken shops aren't causing the violence. But if you wanted to run a campaign aimed at the young people most at risk of knife violence (on either side) there's literally no better place you could run it.
Morley's, where this started in south london,in particular has a really bad reputation for being used as bases for county lines and where a huge amount of conflicts start. It's unique to chicken shops specifically as well - it's not all fast food places.
Obviously the chicken shops aren't causing the violence. But if you wanted to run a campaign aimed at the young people most at risk of knife violence (on either side) there's literally no better place you could run it.
Genuinley curious, is that a
You're being serious? I thought you were spreading the sarcasm thick with your first post. 😂
I'm being completely serious, it's legitimately a big part of my job! We were thinking about doing something similar before this was announced, because it's *really* hard to speak to these kids in particular. Their school attendance tends to be really patchy (if they aren't in a PRU), they don't use local youth groups or provision much, and they respond to social services and outreach workers in exactly the way you would imagine.
Police and local councils and home office have done quite a bit of data modelling and work, and chicken shops are top of the list for a lot of places. No sarcasm!
Police and local councils and home office have done quite a bit of data modelling and work, and chicken shops are top of the list for a lot of places. No sarcasm!
I believe this was actually started by Morley's, the chicken shop Mal mentioned, they then got funding from the home office and it's now being spread to other chicken shops.
So basically you don't think it could come of racist as fuck.... Instead of you know fixing the problem which is people in poverty. You do shit campaigns like this...
For the record I use to be one of "these kids" and was in gang life until around 16/17. I have witnessed and delt with friends dying because they couldn't get out of gangs. No knife in a chicken place will change shit.
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I think that when you are looking at doing something *right now* to try and stop knife crime then focusing on the long term causal factors doesn't help our current young people one bit.
Any proper public health approach has to be two pronged. You need to make fundamental changes to the system and society to reduce the causes of violence. But you also need to change things for the current group of young people at risk or involved. Which is what this campaign is about. Based off a successful pilot in a very troubled brand of chicken shops in South London.
You can't just ignore the kids who are at risk and in danger right now. You have to do long term and short term, and part of that short term work will involve communicating with kids at risk in the places they go to.
Any proper public health approach has to be two pronged. You need to make fundamental changes to the system and society to reduce the causes of violence. But you also need to change things for the current group of young people at risk or involved. Which is what this campaign is about. Based off a successful pilot in a very troubled brand of chicken shops in South London.
You can't just ignore the kids who are at risk and in danger right now. You have to do long term and short term, and part of that short term work will involve communicating with kids at risk in the places they go to.
I know all about how trouble they are as I use to be one. Schemes like this are papering over cracks with fuck all. It is very much a cheap way out and hoping one or two kids in a area take shit seriously.
You may look at "data" but until you actually live it you know stuff like this doesn't work long term. The same with stop n search, none tackle the real problem. It is just the least expensive shit to look like they are doing something.
Short term it may stop gangs operating in that area, but they simply move to other areas.
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It's just so obvious.
I just don't understand how this is going to change anything.
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No-ones pushing it as the solution. It is papering over the cracks - *any* pure comms campaign is just that. It's a small thing in a particular hotspot area with an aim to see a small reduction in knife carrying amongst the highest risk young people.
Given the amounts the government is throwing at long term prevention work, that's where the real push is (e.g. the 200m endowment fund). This is a small fry thing that's being rolled out because it seems to have been successful in the areas it was tried.
has it?
how are they measuring the success, it seems a bit too easy to just print a few boxes and get results like that, is something else being done along side it in the area.
Don't disagree. And somehow I'm left in the position of missing Savid Jarvid, because I think Boris and Priti Patel will rollback on that even (and the new statutory public health duty).
Ultimately though it goes even beyond poverty and austerity. The kids involved in knife crime right now grew up in the new labour years when we spent more on education and early years stuff than ever before. The fundamental institutional racism at every step of the way is the issue.
Hasn't the rise in knife crime been pretty clearly attributed to the wide spread closure of youth centres, programs and initiatives, alongside a massive decline in police numbers and community policing?
I can't see how some cardboard boxes are going to make even an incremental difference.
I can't see how some cardboard boxes are going to make even an incremental difference.
No, it's because the youths listen to angry music and take no responsibility for themselves and look funny. This is why there are no fluctuations in knife crime and no changes in anything ever because They Are Just Bad and so Have Always Been Knifing Each Other. Oh but it got worse with Sadiq Khan because leftie Muslims love knives.
I just, but the core logic seems to literally be what some think.
Most of it is poverty having lived through it. Black/brown people have mad high percentages that live in poor ass areas. No jobs for the young, your parents having to work 3 jobs just to get bread on your table. Then add that to community centres closing and other places it leads to gangs getting easy recruitment. They give you the sense of having a family, having people that care and provide for you. They then help you out with money troubles and you get deeper and deeper until you are stuck.
Systematic racism is obviously playing the biggest part, it leads to so many poc being poor % wise compared to white people. But 100% austerity has made it easier for gangs to recruit, it has made more and more gangs pop up.
I still visit where I use to live every month and nothing has changed. Still all poor as hell, still no one helping them. Am just glad I got out, had 3 people I would call friends die this year due to gang shit.
No, not at all. We haven't got a clear causal link in any way, and indeed there's numerous bits of evidence that say the opposite. the public health approach says that early,m formative years are key and the young people involved in most of this violence grew up at the time when we spent more than we ever have on services for the young and poor.
Policing numbers have an impact on the edges, but again it's very hard to show one way or the other. Best we can see is that there's some link but it isn't strong.
Some of this is long term causal factors (racism leads to poverty leads to crime). Some of it relates to the changes in drug consumption and the drug markets. But ultimately anyone trying to come up with an easy to understand and simple answer on this thing is basically lying to you.
Wait, what's the correlation you're insinuating with mental health?
Nah, it was bad.
Mental health has traditionally been a correlating factor with regards to youth violence. An astonishing and tragic number of young people in the criminal justice system have undiagnosed or untreated mental health conditions. Our system for mental health treatment utterly fails (even more so than usual) when it comes to kids involved in gangs and violence.
Note I'm not saying it's a causal factor.
Seems like a better fit for her anyway, she was always giving her old party stick for something or other, usually the NHS.
I'm not satisfied until we see a Smash Bros newcomer-style intro for every political defection.
I like the part where they mention how no one targets minorities so they target minorities
Now I can see they have only one black person on their board....
Christ. That second last line...
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It would be nice to set our ethical standards a little higher than a country led by Putin though
Wasn't led by Putin at the time I did it, but that was my point. The right of today aspires to be like Russia in so many ways. ;)
Was a real pain as well, as to get the test on the NHS they wanted me to jump through all sorts of hoops, receive counselling etc. In the end I managed to persuade them that I didn't have HIV, had done none of the things that could cause me to have HIV, and just needed the test to get into Russia to continue my studies.
Sure. I am still miffed I paid cash for the test and it wasn't needed. First world problems for me, but obviously not for others.
Can the opposition please hurry and kick Boris out before the weekend.
It would be great if he beat Arthur Wellesley who was only PM for 23 day in his second term to be the shortest serving PM.
It would be great if he beat Arthur Wellesley who was only PM for 23 day in his second term to be the shortest serving PM.
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