UK school that hosted Milo to create "unsafe space" to counter "poison of political correctness"

[Jackpot]

Kent school denies rightwing agenda in 'unsafe space' scheme

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A grammar school at the centre of a row over plans to create an "unsafe space" for unfettered debate among sixth-formers has denied any rightwing agenda, after criticism from pupils and parents.

The Simon Langton grammar school for boys in Canterbury, which caused controversy last year when it invited its former pupil Milo Yiannopoulos, the rightwing controversialist, to speak, sparked fresh concerns this week with a new debating forum that it said was designed to be "an antidote to the poison of political correctness".

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Earlier in the week some pupils tweeted their alarm after learning that the proposed "unsafe space" would examine "the most beautifully disturbed and disturbing ideas, all of them presented without trigger warnings", and that wide-ranging studies would incorporate a number of unexpected texts such as Mein Kampf.

Others spoke of the support for the idea. The school, which is mixed in the sixth form, has also scheduled lectures on the subjects "Women versus feminism" and "Not all cultures are created equal".

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Pupils claimed that the teacher in charge of the "unsafe space", Prof James Soderholm, had joked about LGBT groups by presenting the term with a string of extraneous letters and numbers appended to it. A member of staff at the school said that the term "LGBTQQIP2SAA" had been adopted from an LGBT-friendly website.

Soderholm, the director of humanities at the school, told pupils the first "unsafe space" session would be devoted to a memo circulated by a Google employee, James Damore, who was later sacked, that claimed women were innately less capable as engineers. Soderholm defended it as a "much-needed forum for debate".

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On Wednesday the school's head teacher, Dr Matthew Baxter, forwarded a document to the Guardian in which Soderholm accused a student of posting "a compromising lie" on Twitter about the intentions behind the project.

Moffat said the school had received a large number of letters of support from parents and only one expressing concern. "There is no rightwing agenda in the school, which seems to be what you are implying," he said. "We are simply pushing a spirit of intellectual freedom and openness to ideas whilst maintaining the British value of tolerance and respect for each other."

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https://www.theguardian.com/educati...enies-rightwing-agenda-in-unsafe-space-scheme

 

[Gernau Morat Gurgeh]

Ah, the great right wing bogeymen of safe spaces, along with 'PC culture'. I've learned to discount the opinions of people how argue about either.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

It's full of memes

 

[shnurgleton]

so it's like a university Dark Zone

 

[Deleted member 2809]

They should just use the_donald, the safest of safe spaces

 

[Mondy]

Walk into the clubroom, nothing but wall to wall Pepe rubbish

 

[Mr_Black]

Ah yes, intellectual genius Milo.

Not pseudo internet celebrity and right wing courtroom jester.

 

[Ludono]

I mean why not. Banning something like this only feeds into their belief.

Let them talk and get on with our lives.

 

[Stuart]

I mean why not. Banning something like this only feeds into their belief.

Let them talk and get on with our lives.

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I agree. If you want to change opinions, you need to allow discussion to occur rather than shutting them down.

 

[Dyle]

No wonder that someone like Milo could come from such a nasty school

 

[danm999]

Soderholm, the director of humanities at the school, told pupils the first "unsafe space" session would be devoted to a memo circulated by a Google employee, James Damore, who was later sacked, that claimed women were innately less capable as engineers.

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What the fuck does a Director of humanities at a UK college know about what makes a good Silicon Valley engineer lol

 

[Deleted member 11262]

He made his way over to EU, huh?

Oh, wait...

 

[PJV3]

That sounds incredibly childish for a school, just debate the topics without the bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

I agree. If you want to change opinions, you need to allow discussion to occur rather than shutting them down.

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Works well in the US with those nazis marching the streets

 

[The Living Tribunal]

I agree. If you want to change opinions, you need to allow discussion to occur rather than shutting them down.

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Fuck that shit, you can't discuss anything with these people. They just want a fucking room where they can safely say the N word.

 

[Dyno]

I mean why not. Banning something like this only feeds into their belief.

Let them talk and get on with our lives.

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Just no. These people have nothing of value to say and their only hope is to brainwash more fools into their ridiculous racist beliefs. If anything the 'Professor' should be permanently removed.

 

[Deleted member 13364]

I mean why not. Banning something like this only feeds into their belief.

Let them talk and get on with our lives.

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You can allow discussions and present it without wrapping it up in all the alt right bullshit

"the most beautifully disturbed and disturbing ideas, all of them presented without trigger warnings"

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It's pretty clear someone is taking great pleasure in putting this together, and it's safe to guess which side they're leaning towards.

 

[konka]

I agree. If you want to change opinions, you need to allow discussion to occur rather than shutting them down.

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I wonder if Neville thought that too.

 

[Snack12367]

I mean it sounds dumb, but I'm ok with debate bringing bought back into schools.

Schools like to remove all conflict, but that's not the real work. More than ever we find people being shepherded by others rather than thinking for themselves. Debate should not be something done by only pseudo-intellectuals and politicians.

The context of this though is highly suspect.

 

[Ludono]

Fuck that shit, you can't discuss anything with these people. They just want a fucking room where they can safely say the N word.

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See, the thing is.... your sentence could just as well be said by someone on the far left as the far right with two different "n words" that is.

These people exist. You can't get rid of them as much as you'd like to (I'm sure they think the same about you!) so as long as they aren't harming someone (and no name-calling is not "harming" someone) let them have their talks and marches and whatever. The world changes by shifting trends in society not by suppressing the minority. Racism is far less of an issue than it was 100 years ago not by locking up racists or silencing them, but by changing as a society.

 

[intheflorsh]

Please don't let Milo near children that age.

 

[EarthPainting]

I've scouted the perfect location for a safe space where people can whine about political correctness and how uppity discriminated demographics are.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Works well in the US with those nazis marching the streets

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I don't know if middle class English grammar school pupils are quite in the same league as "Nazis".

Fuck that shit, you can't discuss anything with these people. They just want a fucking room where they can safely say the N word.

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That's a ridiculous stand to take tbh. Don't let them talk, you can't discuss anything with these people? You mean, these 16 year olds? Are you threatened by children wanting to discuss difficult ideas?

Personally, I think the language the school is using here is unhelpful and deliberately is pushing buttons, but perhaps this is being used as a hook to engage these young people? I work in a very similar institution and while there is definitely privilege everywhere, the pupils are encouraged to examine big, difficult ideas. International Baccalaureate studies already ask pupils to engage thoughtfully with this kind of thing and this seems an extension of it. Even though the pupils and staff at these school are often quite rich, you'd be surprised at how progressive they are.

 

[Vish]

I agree. If you want to change opinions, you need to allow discussion to occur rather than shutting them down.

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Their modus operandi is oppression, and that means hurling insults at POC, lgbtq, trans, womem, leftists, etc. People don't sit around and just take insults. They need to learn to debate and have proper discussions, of which they never do from any level of respect. It's always disengenuos because they argue from a standpoint of hate.

Now if they wanna talk about getting closer to a free market, that's different.

 

[Buzzman]

Finally Milo can talk about pedophilia without the PC police shutting him down.

 

[LukeOP]

I'm going to send a message to HR at my company and let them know about this. Kent, huh? I wouldn't want what happened at google happen at the company I work at.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

See, the thing is.... your sentence could just as well be said by someone on the far left as the far right with two different "n words" that is.

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Are you trying to equate nazi and n----r ?

 

[Stuart]

Fuck that shit, you can't discuss anything with these people. They just want a fucking room where they can safely say the N word.

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It sounds like the school is arranging debates, and challenging views, rather than just allowing offensive opinions to air.

A facist political party called the BNP was gaining popularity in the UK. After a television debate where their leader was challenged on his views, their popularity rapidly fell.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Their modus operandi is oppression, and that means hurling insults at POC, lgbtq, trans, womem, leftists, etc. People don't sit around and just take insults. They need to learn to debate and have proper discussions, of which they never do from any level of respect. It's always disengenuos because they argue from a standpoint of hate.

Now if they wanna talk about getting closer to a free market, that's different.

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Again, we're talking about children engaging in a debate here. You've constructed a straw grammar school pupil. By and large these are not hateful people.

 

[Mikebison]

What kind of headmaster invites that oxygen thief to speak to a load of 16-18 year olds? Knobhead m8.

 

[Ludono]

Are you trying to equate nazi and n----r ?

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Not at all, simply saying that both sides wanting the other to be silenced doesn't help anyone.

Nice try at derailing my point though.

 

[Stuart]

People don't sit around and just take insults. They need to learn to debate and have proper discussions, of which they never do from any level of respect. It's always disengenuos because they argue from a standpoint of hate.

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It's taking place in school, so I assume they'll enforce a code of conduct. It sounded like they would be having debates, albeit controversial ones, not just endorsing right wing views.

 

[BernardoOne]

invite a pedophile defender to a school bruh

See, the thing is.... your sentence could just as well be said by someone on the far left as the far right with two different "n words" that is.

These people exist. You can't get rid of them as much as you'd like to (I'm sure they think the same about you!) so as long as they aren't harming someone (and no name-calling is not "harming" someone) let them have their talks and marches and whatever. The world changes by shifting trends in society not by suppressing the minority. Racism is far less of an issue than it was 100 years ago not by locking up racists or silencing them, but by changing as a society.

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Amazing ignorance of the shit Milo has pulled time and time again, great job.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

That's a ridiculous stand to take tbh. Don't let them talk, you can't discuss anything with these people? You mean, these 16 year olds? Are you threatened by children wanting to discuss difficult ideas?

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Is this what we are calling it now? "Difficult" ideas?

They are 16 year olds now, the least thing a young mind needs is a hate-filled echo chamber.

 

[konka]

Again, we're talking about children engaging in a debate here. You've constructed a straw grammar school pupil. By and large these are not hateful people.

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Children shouldn't have Nazis come to their school to talk to them, no.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

Nvm.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

Double post.

 

[Spookie]

How did I know this was Kent before even opening the thread? Never spoken to a person from that area who doesn't harbour some fairly fucking extreme views on anyone who isn't white. :/

 

[Vish]

It's taking place in school, so I assume they'll enforce a code of conduct. It sounded like they would be having debates, albeit controversial ones, not just endorsing right wing views.

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It needs to be properly moderated. Another issue is that the lack of diversity at the grammar school in all ways, making it an inherent echo chamber. The guy who started it, now sacked they say, was the wrong person to begin with.

 

[Palette Swap]

The fuck is the value of this kind of transparent alt right proselytizing to high schoolers?

 

[Dyno]

Is this what we are calling it now? "Difficult" ideas?

They are 16 year olds now, the least thing a young mind needs is a hate-filled echo chamber.

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Exactlty. This isn't intended to be a debate. This fucker invited Milo to the school so we know the intentions. They're targeting young people with the intention of bolstering their numbers.

Also Nazis aren't entitled to speech. Hell it wasn't too long ago they weren't entitled to live so where the sudden forgiveness of their ideology comes from baffles me.

 

[Gotchaye]

Personally, I think the language the school is using here is unhelpful and deliberately is pushing buttons, but perhaps this is being used as a hook to engage these young people? I work in a very similar institution and while there is definitely privilege everywhere, the pupils are encouraged to examine big, difficult ideas. International Baccalaureate studies already ask pupils to engage thoughtfully with this kind of thing and this seems an extension of it. Even though the pupils and staff at these school are often quite rich, you'd be surprised at how progressive they are.

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But what is the "big, difficult idea" being examined here?

I am 100% behind challenging students, giving them exposure to both sides of complex, controversial issues, and trying to help them think through these things for themselves. But Milo Yiannopoulos and James Damore are just not interesting thinkers. Like, maybe you think that the sciences are too stuck in dogmatic thinking and need to be more open to challenges. You don't address that by hosting a flat earth conference. You have to go find the actual ideas and thinkers that you think we should be more open to. Constructing an anti- safe space only for the sake of having an anti- safe space is just being a jackass.

Part of the problem here is that the right (at least in the US) is in a state of total intellectual collapse. There are a lot of ideas out there which are somewhat widely held in the general population but which almost totally lack articulate champions engaging in good faith. Now, that alone is nothing new -- it's always been the case that lots of people in broader society have believed things that had almost no purchase among people who actually took the time to think about them. What's new is that there's very little on the right which isn't like this. Conservative thought leaders are such people as Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. Conservative think tanks now exist only to justify policy positions which have already been decided on. And so when people have this sense that conservative ideas are being unfairly excluded, they end up proving the case against them: the best examples they can come up with are just embarrassing.

I mean, you can't plausibly claim to be pushing "openness to ideas" by exposing students to Mein Kampf. That's just not the text you should be using for that, because it's not an idea worth being open to.

 

[Zellia]

Somehow I'm utterly unsurprised this is Milo's old school. This is just going to be the same old alt-right/hateful shit promoted under the veneer of being edgy and provocative.

 

[Ferrs]

Are people REALLY saying here that we should let 16 years old kids talk freely about nazis , "Not all cultures are created equal", " women were innately less capable as engineers" and shit like that?

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Is this what we are calling it now? "Difficult" ideas?

They are 16 year olds now, the least these young minds need is a hate-filled echo chamber.

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Yeah, I'm calling them difficult ideas.

You're sounding like a parody of what people say about the left. "Hate filled echo chamber" wtf. It's a debating society. they're not going to be sat around smoking pipes saying "what about them darkies, eh old boy?" If this is anything like the debates I've seen (again, I work in a very similar school), they'll be intellectually rigorous and forthright. People will be called out on unsubstantiated bullshit. They'll need to present logical, coherent arguments. We need young people from both sides of the political aisles to talk to each other about every aspect of these big, difficult issues. Because otherwise we're glamourising it, we're saying "no, you can't talk about that because it's too dangerous". That's one big way in which the alt-right gained a foothold IMO, edgelords saying shocking things to upset people like you. And that shit sticks. Instead of branding people nazis and forbidding them from speaking we need to engage them and beat them in arguments.

Despite prevailing attitudes on this forum, there is no orthodoxy as to right and wrong. There is no objective truth about any of this. There's just a massive spectrum of opinions and ideas. They have to be allowed to fight it out.

I'm very left wing but I want the hard right "nazis" (goddamn do I hate that stupid way of referring to them though) to be able to speak their ideas and then I want some clever fucker to come along and shut them down publicly. If these negative ideas go unchecked we're just going to keep sliding into this new era. Because it turns out there's a lot of people who don't think exactly like us. And if we scream "Nazi! Fuck off!" we're not going to be able to engage with them and hopefully change their minds.

Children shouldn't have Nazis come to their school to talk to them, no.

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According to this story, Milo is an alumni and they invited him to talk last year, not this year.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Are people REALLY saying here that we should let 16 years old kids talk freely about nazis , "Not all cultures are created equal", " women were innately less capable as engineers" and shit like that?

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Hey it's just debates bro. Spout n-words, shit on feminists and praise nazis, while debating.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Lol yes James Damore who's latest thing is to say, while claiming he's totally not using it as an excuse, that his autism makes him see things differently...

http://www.siliconbeat.com/2017/11/...ore-says-hes-autistic-sees-things-differently

That's the kind of deep thinker whose writing we need to really study...

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Are people REALLY saying here that we should let 16 years old kids talk freely about nazis , "Not all cultures are created equal", " women were innately less capable as engineers" and shit like that?

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The thing is, there are people who really do believe these things, some of them will be pupils at that school. And no amount of quashing discussion on these topics will convert them over to "our side". They need to be talked about.

 

[FlyingMa]

Are people REALLY saying here that we should let 16 years old kids talk freely about nazis , "Not all cultures are created equal", " women were innately less capable as engineers" and shit like that?

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How would you prevent them from talking about those things?

 

[Otherist]

Oh hooray. I'm so glad students get to "debate" the important issues like whether female co-workers deserve respect...I'm sure this 'unsafe space' will be full of valuable contributions from marginalised people (who will most certainly feel included and not alienated at all) and not just an ideologically homogenous circlejerk for privileged people tired of empathy, no sirree.