look we can't have a secret cabal if SOMEONE keeps bringing it up
look we can't have a secret cabal if SOMEONE keeps bringing it up
....k I think it would be better for my sanity if i don't post in this thread anymore.
These dramatic exit posts. You'll have to debate for far longer and in cleverer fashion when you come across alt-righters/nazis cause they don't like backing down or sticking to one topic than just one forum thread like right now ;)
K. . . is it wrong to say that your tag is killing me right now?look we can't have a secret cabal if SOMEONE keeps bringing it up
Heh. I don't know what's funnier, the bizarre misinterpretation of a completely innocuous tag (almost as if it was intended to deflect or change the subject or something), or this even more bizarre insistence at ~debating everything~ but when it comes to actual debating, the "k I'm out I can't do this" bailing.
I think Cream's point is that those who insist that every idea merits a debating platform are those who are the first to jump ship the moment minorities actually start humouring them. Not talking about people just avoiding the thread.
look we can't have a secret cabal if SOMEONE keeps bringing it up
Mistakes were made. Proselytizing about how we should have killed thousands of people after the war because that would somehow fix the world today is imbecilic. I'm just not sure how edgy woulda-coulda-shouldas are valuable in this discussion.Which country has statues celebrating these assholes? Hint: it ain't the ones who took the US's approach.
Power structures? Marks of honour?Read my post. Failure to understand power structure and "marks of honor" within a power structure are the key. I can't make people educate themselves on their mechanics.
As to the leaving, I never left. Just grabbed shower and can back to a dozen mentions of my name. I don't understand how people are failing to see the purpose of these spaces is to equalize power structures all the while stating there is no social advantage to a specific tag. Come on. It is an indicator of involvement in some form with the power structure. Please dispute that on merit if you disagree.
Absolutely no one said that. But by having the title you have recognition by the power structure to your contributions to the community vs a standard user. That's the point. While it carries nothing of value, within this community it has value and weight. It indicates past involvement with the power structure in some tangible way. Just like medals of honor do. Power structure doesn't just exist at the government level you know. Further you don't need to be official part of the power structure to be recognized or benefit from the power structure.
I don't think this has ever rung truer than it has for the alt-right "movement"."Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
- Jean Paul Sarte, from "Anti-Semite and Jew." (Published 1946)
I think most rational people just dislike being told to support mass killings. That's probably why they're leaving the discussion here.These dramatic exit posts. You'll have to debate for far longer and in cleverer fashion when you come across alt-righters/nazis cause they don't like backing down or sticking to one topic than just one forum thread like right now ;)
I don't necessarily agree with this, but at least in this case those generals showed a willingness to take up arms and to murder on mass in defence of slavery. The people today, who are wistfully hoping for a return to a time when there countries were more ethnically homogeneous, as wrongheaded as they are have not advocated or shown a willingness to participate in the mass murder of those they consider outside of their preferred group.After the Civil War, every single confederate general, at the very least, should have been killed. Everything should have been razed. After WW2, germany had the nuremberg trials. You have to stomp down this shit. It's the only way.
OH, so in that case, then how do you expect to debate Nazis that...I think most rational people just dislike being told to support mass killings. That's probably why they're leaving the discussion here.
Compromise of course, instead of full genocide and ethnic cleansing we can do half genocide and ethnic cleansing.OH, so in that case, then how do you expect to debate Nazis that...
you guess it, SUPPORT MASS KILLINGS.
Oh we can debate them, but genuinely believing we should kill them for holding bad beliefs is absurd. The Nazi party is gone; neonazis exist, but they do not hold mass sway over the world. There is no world war against fascism right now.OH, so then how do you expect to debate Nazis that...
you guess it, SUPPORT MASS KILLINGS.
Power structures? Marks of honour?
No. It's a tag. That's it. We have warned/banned people with tags. They don't have any special user privileges. I don't know why you're obsessing over this. I really, really don't. But I admit, it's funny.
The president of the united states of America is literally a fascist.Oh we can debate them, but genuinely believing we should kill them for holding bad beliefs is absurd. The Nazi party is gone; neonazis exist, but they do not hold mass sway over the world. There is no world war against fascism right now.
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
- Jean Paul Sarte, from "Anti-Semite and Jew." (Published 1946)
Yikes ok, do people with medals of honor get arrested? No one said it gives a written privilege. But it is an indication of history which allows an acting authoritative power perspective on past history and to execute on that as they wish. One mod may be more lenient while another more strict. I swear it's like you guys never read a single sociology book.
I wonder what people here make of the Gary Younge - Richard Spencer interview, which turned into a debate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puJ-arJgkZU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwN5wkTPn48
The second was moral. I felt strongly that we should not give these people airtime to peddle their divisive lies. They were not a group I simply had a political disagreement with. Their politics of discrimination and scapegoating were antithetical to democratic norms. The media, I felt, should not smooth their path to respectability by giving them a platform and treating them like everyone else. The prospect of creating a spectacle, which in turn attracts viewers and clicks, should not override an ethical responsibility to avoid spreading hate speech and offensive propaganda.
...
The most common response to that video has been a variation on the theme of physical retribution ("I can't believe you didn't punch him"; "I'd have punched him"; "Someone should punch him"). That's not my style. But beyond that, many have raised the issue that I raised all those years ago – "Why give him a platform?" "Who stands to gain from this?" These are reasonable questions. Indeed I asked it myself, on camera, before I interviewed him, saying: "I'm quite conflicted about interviewing Richard Spencer. Ordinarily, giving someone like that oxygen is something I think journalists shouldn't do."
So why did I? Well, the primary reason was journalistic. The documentary seeks to unearth the roots of white anxiety in America and how that is affecting the nation's politics. Given US president Donald Trump's record of race-baiting it seemed like racism should be in the mix. There were some things we did take off the schedule – like an interview with the Ku Klux Klan – because we felt they did not represent anything significant. But Spencer seemed to have a different currency. He coined the term "alt-right" – a synonym for the extreme right. Steve Bannon, Trump's chief strategist at the time of the interview, used to run Breitbart News (and since his resignation from the post does again), which he boasted was a platform for the alt-right.
...
Having established that we would interview him, the next question was: how. For the risk remains that in giving him time we legitimise him as acceptable mainstream actor and dignify his views as being both reasonable and credible.
Throughout this trip, and throughout my career, I have met many people with views I've found objectionable. My general strategy is to let people speak for themselves and faithfully relate what they say – challenging only factual inaccuracies – in the hope that I can draw out why they think what they think. To be as empathic as I can, in the hope that I can work out where they are coming from.
But it was my view, shared by the team, that this was different. Spencer's supremacist views are well-known. So while we would put Spencer on camera, the aim would be to challenge his views not indulge them. The aim was to be civil but firm. My first question – "You want to create a nation of dispossessed white people. Is that right?" – was hardly a curveball.
What did we expect? From what we had seen before, he would appear charming and reasonable while giving his egregious and offensive views an intellectual gloss. He would find it in his own interests to be believable and engaging, and my task would be to get the mask to slip.
What we did not expect was that he would be ignorant, historically illiterate, incoherent and personally insulting. The reason I called time on the interview was because Spencer was spent – beyond baiting me, he had nothing to offer, and frankly, I had no desire to hang around a white supremacist conference a second longer than I had to.
But you said I was special?You need to take a chill pill. It's a tag. A tag. It's not some special indication of favorable relationship with the moderation team. Mods can't even give tags, only admins can. Anyone with a tag is held to the same standard as anyone without. We've banned those with tags as equally as we have banned those without.
Sure, buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. Saying it doesn't make it true, though.The president of the united states of America is literally a fascist.
Sure, buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. Saying it doesn't make it true, though.
Power structures? Marks of honour?
No. It's a tag. That's it. We have warned/banned people with tags. They don't have any special user privileges. I don't know why you're obsessing over this. I really, really don't. But I admit, it's funny.
This thread is fascinating in that it shows why debate everything is in fact exhausting... folk are leaving in droves in the midst of debating the debate... but minorities, whose existence and rights folks want to create spaces to debate against... we don't get to just drop out of that debate.... We don't have that privilege.
It happens over and over again, and somehow, I still can't believe it when it happens again.Sure, buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. Saying it doesn't make it true, though.
It's a way of life.
it's a fucking tag, my god. Is this the hill you really want to die on?
Heh. I don't know what's funnier, the bizarre misinterpretation of a completely innocuous tag (almost as if it was intended to deflect or change the subject or something), or this even more bizarre insistence at ~debating everything~ but when it comes to actual debating, the "k I'm out I can't do this" bailing.
I think Cream's point is that those who insist that every idea merits a debating platform are those who are the first to jump ship the moment minorities actually start humouring them. Not talking about people just avoiding the thread.
Shhhhhh
...No. It's really not.Resettlement Advisor is more than a tag. And you can tell those with that "tag" know it.
Chill with the language.It happens over and over again, and somehow, I still can't believe it when it happens again.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you blind? Are you just trolling me? How do you not see what's going on in this country and around the world? YOU are the people that led to the holocaust happening.
Oh we can debate them, but genuinely believing we should kill them for holding bad beliefs is absurd. The Nazi party is gone; neonazis exist, but they do not hold mass sway over the world. There is no world war against fascism right now.
I'm seeing reality—a reality that looks nothing like the 1930s. Ad hominem hyperbole doesn't make what you're saying seem reasonable to me.It happens over and over again, and somehow, I still can't believe it when it happens again.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you blind? Are you just trolling me? How do you not see what's going on in this country and around the world? YOU are the people that led to the holocaust happening.
Not everyone who voted for Brexit was a racist xenophobe. There were plenty of them too but let's not paint such a large group with such a broad stroke.
Arrest is one thing—murder? No.The moment a neonazi starts talking about mass-murdering minorities is the moment you should end the debate and arrest them according to hate laws, incitement etc. It should end right there and then.
Also, I'd argue that there are currenty people in very powerful positions who are sympathetic to neonazi ideals.
It happens over and over again, and somehow, I still can't believe it when it happens again.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you blind? Are you just trolling me? How do you not see what's going on in this country and around the world? YOU are the people that led to the holocaust happening.
Resettlement Advisor is more than a tag. And you can tell those with that "tag" know it.
It's not the racists that you need to convince(even though I don't think that's impossible), it's those who are on the fence that may be vulnerable to being indoctrinated by those with hateful views that are at risk.Debates don't work for the majority of racists is my point, they just use them to spread their shit. They aren't open to changing their views, they want others to join them. That shit shouldn't be allowed in schools.
Living in the UK. I have seen my fair share of racist shit. I will never debate with these people.
Simply epic XD kill me XD
This tag stuff is actually killing me.
The power structure at ResetEra is oppressive and should be dismantled.
Glad this topic is so hilarious to you
Violent threats are, when given by someone who will never act on them.
It's the truth.
The only thing that can stop or change Nazi ideals is direct action and violence. History has proven this.
Do you have a problem with the idea that nazis should be killed?
You know Nazis and the alt-right love people like you, right? You successfully turned a conversation about the evils of nazism and what should be done to stop their spread into criticizing Obama.
You're doing their job for them and you can't even see it.
Or far more likely you know exactly what you're doing.
no no no no no no.
Stop it. Stop with the fucking deflections. We are talking about the spread of white supremacy and nazism. Not Al Queda. Not Communists.
Fuck Nazis.
They deserve to die if they refuse to renounce their beliefs and their plans. I will never back down from this.
OH, so in that case, then how do you expect to debate Nazis that...
you guess it, SUPPORT MASS KILLINGS.
It happens over and over again, and somehow, I still can't believe it when it happens again.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you blind? Are you just trolling me? How do you not see what's going on in this country and around the world? YOU are the people that led to the holocaust happening.