Umm, so I guess it's time to talk about fragmentation of PC gaming storefronts. Maybe.

[M1chl]

All right, I do not have a horse in this "fight", but it somewhat bothers few things, which I am open to get critique from that, since....well I own the PC business company, we did not make games (mainly because I feel too stupid to make anything worth your time), but I game on consoles. If mods felt like it's redundant topic, feel free to deleted it.

I don't like personally recent events of Epic games store, but also I am not so optimistic, that it stop there. Why would it, capitalism, free market, etc.

I am sure that I am not alone with the notion, that PC is an open platform, that is the only platform which can preserve games from our childhood and still be playable today from whatever platform it comes and even though I do not support piracy, sometimes what can you do when game is way past the EOL. It's just the reality of things. And I am fairly sure that devs who worked on those games, want to be their game eternal, because their pour heart and soul to them. Not all, but most of them.

And in this digital world, we do things which is not even available to customers. Like if you think you have a disc you are fine forever, than not, I know two prominent Czech developers, one of who was my High School teacher and they basically told me the same thing, it's just a data, licence could be revoke anytime (if you are connected to the internet or if you are not, than games disc simply told you to connect after some date). So that's also does not do any good to gaming community.

PC was always a bastion of free, open gaming and no I don't meant piracy, just that it was a platform to keep old games alive and the number of growing launchers bothers me, buying 3rd party exclusives bothers me and I was very much prepared for that in console business, but I never expected it would come to PC. I admit, I just want to be on my PC pres few times a button a be in the game, but my choice should not influence open platforms. I still play Quake 3 Arena with bots when I need to switch off for minutes in my work, the thought that I no longer could have, kind of made me really sad.


So what do you thing think, it's Epic Store an utopic idea, or another storefront are going to follow the suit and fragmented open platform which PC is/was?

 

[Fanta]

My biggest problem with it is taking away choice and I feel its gonna lead to another rise in piracy because of it.

The worst part of it all too is that you can add non steam games to your steam library (I don't think any other platform besides discord has this) but a lot of these launchers block it, take origin for example, when it was EA download manager you could add a games exe and it worked no problem, but when they rebranded to Origin it broke being able to launch a game through my steam library. Battle net has never worked except for Blizzards classic titles Warcraft 3 and before.

I'm not even gonna touch Bethesda launcher when it's giving out people's private info, and then Epic launcher which is trying to be a secret club and no doubt its gonna turn away a lot of indie games for not meeting their arbitrary criteria. GOG is actually pretty great though and is a good alternative to non drm versions of games

 

[Deleted member 1413]

Should be fine. Steam doesn't have a serious competitor yet and without it they'll find little reason to improve. Epic is making some changes to help developers out so it seems like a good thing.

Imagine epic won't be paying for exclusives after a few months, they're just starting out, but we may see devs naturally go epic exclusive due to the higher profitability per sale if it blows up.

Origin is doing some cool stuff with the EA access pass too. Guess if we see one for every major publisher it could become a problem, but it's not there yet

 

[Doc Kelso]

To be blunt about it, my biggest issue is having my payment information/personal information in 1 too many systems.

The last few years have exemplified that most companies are absolute shit about that sort of thing. I can't keep track of 2376 passwords, so I inevitably have to either repeat my passwords or use a password tool. And then my CC info is on more and more accounts. Vectors of attack just keep increasing.

I'd love for a serious Steam competitor to arise but I'm immediately suspect if I have to spread out across 4 storefronts to get the games I want.

 

[Deleted member 13628]

Well, that's what you get with open platforms. Anyone is free to sell whatever they want and however they want to. You wouldn't want PC to become a glorified console, right?

 

[ItIsOkBro]

pubs should make their epic game store games like 5% cheaper. pass some of that good will out way.

 

[RulkezX]

Folk like Epic trying to save the PC from Valve is hilarious as is the shitty reasons devs are coming up with for them accepting Epic trying to start a platform within a platform war.

Steam is a fully featured client that also has a store front or allows me to redeem keys bought at third parties ( with a revenue split the publisher can negotiate) hassle free.

Epic Games Store is a Fortnite launcher with some moneyhated indy games and a closed wall that only allows me to play the game if I bought it on their store. No third party sales , no keys direct from the developer just an attempt to guilt trip the consumer into helping a game company earn more money without apparently passing on any of that to the consumer.

I'm not sure it's a huge issue yet anyway , not unless AA or AAA start getting moneyhated. A few indy games bombing isn't going to tip the pc market in its head and there's not going to be a mass exodus unless EGS can somehow get games cheaper than on Steam

 

[BrutalInsane]

I'm going to stick with Steam and GoG, that's it. I don't need 20 fucking launchers on my machine to play a video game, and i like my library in one place. Thanks.

 

[Muad'dib]

I don't mind first party publishers, expect Bethesda's because that shit is disgusting, because they're not in the business of selling 3rd party games and moneyhatting exclusives and locking them down.

Epic on the other hand is trying the same shitty failed tactic that Discord and GOG tried with bought exclusives to keep games away from other storefronts, creating walled gardens in what's supposed to be an open system, that is something I refuse to support.

 

[hersheyfan]

I'm all for Epic making a serious attempt at making a legitimate competitor to Steam (and I say this as somebody heavily invested in the Steam "ecosystem"). Origin and UPlay have always struck me as thinly veiled plays at cutting out the middle man - there really isnt a lot there in terms of third party stuff.

That's not to say I'm actually going to be buying anything from their store at the moment - no regional pricing and the aformentioned bulk of my games library (around 1,300 games or so) already being on Steam will see to that. But for the markets where their present model is viable, this should hopefully put enough competitive pressure on Valve to stay honest. Pressure is the only way to get Gabe to do anything these days, unfortunately.

 

[Lashley]

Imagine turning on your Playstation/Xbox/Switch and having to open about 6 different launchers to play your games.

 

[ArnoldJRimmer]

Ill stick to steam and gog. Thats already plenty of gaming for me.

I keep hearing that this competition is supposed to push steam to improve... i find this sentiment incomprehensible coming from anyone that knows anything about pc gaming. No other service offers anywhere as many features as steam or is as customer friendly as it currently is.

 

[Zackat]

as a lifelong PC gamer I do not understand the outrage at all

 

[kubev]

Imagine turning on your Playstation/Xbox/Switch and having to open about 6 different launchers to play your games.

Click to shrink...

Not to mention remember which game(s) is in which launcher(s). It's irritating.

 

[Deleted member 33597]

I'm kind of weirded out by what a big deal this is becoming. Yeah, managing multiple libraries across different storefronts with different features can be kind of a pain, but ultimately it's such a minor bother that I'm genuinely surprised to see how strong the reaction has been.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Imagine turning on your Playstation/Xbox/Switch and having to open about 6 different launchers to play your games.

Click to shrink...

Imagine Microsoft moneyhatting a former multiplat game but you being able to play it just by downloading a launcher on your Playstation...

 

[M1chl]

Imagine turning on your Playstation/Xbox/Switch and having to open about 6 different launchers to play your games.

Click to shrink...

That's a no and that is what bothers me, I pay Ea Access and still buy or download games through MS Store. I feel that is the right way to do it.

I'm kind of weirded out by what a big deal this is becoming. Yeah, managing multiple libraries across different storefronts with different features can be kind of a pain, but ultimately it's such a minor bother that I'm genuinely surprised to see how strong the reaction has been.

Click to shrink...

I think it has more to do with buying exclusivity and making games not accessible after they are going to be "old".

as a lifelong PC gamer I do not understand the outrage at all

Click to shrink...

In my mind when I created this thread was not an outrage at all, just to hear people opinion on current situation of fragmentation on an open platform. As I've said, I am outsider, who works on PC and play on consoles, I am fine with that, but some games, it cannot be played on any other device than PC like my example with Q3 Arena.

 

[Syf]

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Clicking a different button isn't hard, and my friends list is centralized on Discord. I feel like Era is the only place where people are weirdly upset about it.

 

[JD3Nine]

I only use a few launchers and I haven't really seen anything that makes me want to use the Epic store. So I'm still planning on sticking with Steam / GoG. This exclusive stuff is total nonsense but I will just skip those games. TBH I already have enough PC games to last me a few lifetimes.

 

[Extremely Solid]

I play on Steam and that's it. Don't like having payment options tied up in too many platforms, segmented libraries is inconvenient, and all of my friends are on Steam. If F2P games are elsewhere, that's about the only way I'd game on PC outside of Steam. Other than that, it's either Steam or PS4 for me.

 

[Deleted member 7450]

Gosh, I'm trying to come up with a concise opinion about this whole deal, but everytime I try to start a thread I drop it.


Basically I don't have an issue with what, but more with how.

And I get the intent behind the initiatives, I really do, but when I look into the most basic things and reasons as to why I buy stuff on Steam and GOG, I look at the others and just "what do you have for me?" and the answer it "well, exclusive games".

And I scratch my head, and feel bummed. I want to support it but then I keep going about "why don't you have a wishlist feature?", "my local currency when?", "local payment options?", but then I guess "well, still on the beginning, stick with us, feedback, more to come later" and all that jazz.

And yeah, you know what would make it easy to support the devs? A non exclusive launch on a store that has a infrastructure already in place that facilitates my support for the damn games.

And, even though I'm not the person to buy stuff right away day one, and I could sit on my ass and wait for the (hopefully) eventual launch on the usual stores, or the implementation of features I'm looking forward to, it is really hard to feel any degree of confidence due to how things are being approached, presented and communicated.

 

[Deleted member 300]

Imagine sweeney supporting alex jones. Oh wait

 

[oni-link]

I'm going to stick with Steam and GoG, that's it. I don't need 20 fucking launchers on my machine to play a video game, and i like my library in one place. Thanks.

Click to shrink...

I do too but is it really big enough of an issue to miss out on games you want to play?

I have a PS4 and will get a Switch at some point, but those cost money, on PC you just download the other launcher right?

It sucks but it's not like it's costing you anything to do it

 

[mutantmagnet]

Should be fine. Steam doesn't have a serious competitor yet and without it they'll find little reason to improve. Epic is making some changes to help developers out so it seems like a good thing.

Imagine epic won't be paying for exclusives after a few months, they're just starting out, but we may see devs naturally go epic exclusive due to the higher profitability per sale if it blows up.

Origin is doing some cool stuff with the EA access pass too. Guess if we see one for every major publisher it could become a problem, but it's not there yet

Click to shrink...

Valve is many things but stagnant isn't one of them.


Saying Valve needs more motivation to improve is to completely ignore the way they evolve every 2 years. I'm not a fan of certain changes but you can say for example their changing stance on early access was a sidegrade at minimum and their comment review history has been a great tool at seeing shifts in opinions.

 

[Lilalaunebaer]

Either you´re on Steam or on GOG or you don´t exist as far as i´m concerned.

Steam has been around long enough that i can trust it somewhat with my games and absolutely shits on the "competition" with it´s features.
With gog i get drm free games.

Others don´t work (bethesda), are the very opposite of what i want of pc gaming (MS store), or just don´t offer even an ounce of what steam offers (the rest of them).

Just because you moneyhat some 3rd party games, isn´t gonna make me use your launcher. I got enough games in my possession right now to last me like 4-5 years lol.

 

[Serious Sam]

PC gaming already is problematic and complex, so I can see a couple of long term side effects happening because of storefronts fragmentation.

1. Most immediate result will be massive increase in PC games piracy.
2. More people will turn away from PC and go to consoles and phones for gaming.
3. Fewer sales and reputation damage for games that choose to do storefront exclusivity, especially for indies.

PC is open platform, yes, but ultimately that's not why PC gaming is popular today. Valve created Steam and brought PC gaming back from near death in 2000s. Steam united PC gamers, it had everything in one place and it just worked. Sadly this fragmentation and storefront exclusivity will damage PC gaming platform.

 

[A real sad boy]

I'll go where the games I want to play are. Simple as that. If I have options, I'll go where the games are cheaper or where more of my friends have the game. I don't care about how many clients or how many accounts I need to have. That doesn't bother me in the least.

Ideally, Epic will offer the same key generation services as Steam allowing for third-parties such as GMG and Humble to offer discounts one otherwise wouldn't find.

Though I do wonder, if Valve hadn't have been so open with their CDKeys, would their quarterly sales have been on the decline as they've been over the years?

As we've all experienced, outside avenues for Steam games have yielded better sales compared to directly through the client, especially around major sale periods like Black Friday and such. Perhaps the Epic Games Store can provide better sales than Steam in this respect?

I haven't been happy with Steam as a client for several years nor have I ever found the community features as anything more than a toxic dumpster filled with the absolute worst of 'gamers' and their gross opinions. I have conceded that game forums would definitely be helpful, but require more moderation than Valve ever really provides for their forums.

User reviews are something that Epic needs to implement ASAP but moderate as to avoid review bombing by alt-right leaning users, trolls, and astroturfing by developers / publishers.

I've also found Steams curation incredibly lacking and has added bloat to their store and has made it almost impossible for me to discover games I'd like to play without seeking information elsewhere via forums, twitter, or reddit. This is definitely an area where Epic could improve upon and outdo Valve and it would personally be the most beneficial to me.

Imagine turning on your Playstation/Xbox/Switch and having to open about 6 different launchers to play your games.

Click to shrink...

The PC isn't a console. This comparassion is incredibly disingenuous.

 

[Derrick01]

All it will do is lead to piracy making a comeback. This is what's happening in the tv/movie streaming space because everyone wanted to use netflix but publishers got greedy and thought if they made their own solutions people would follow. And they're not.

Should be fine. Steam doesn't have a serious competitor yet and without it they'll find little reason to improve.

Click to shrink...

And yet that's all they've been doing for years. Like we keep telling people steam doesn't fit your high school econ lesson that everything needs competition to thrive. Valve is not a normal capitalist corporation in that regard, so normal rules don't fit them.

 

[oni-link]

A few people have said many launches will result in an increase in piracy, and maybe it will, but man

You have to be a pretty special type of asshole to feel like you're entitled to a game for free because the company expected you to launch it from a different icon on your desktop

 

[neon/drifter]

I think I'm just mad at indies becoming launcher exclusive. I feel like this is the first instance of that happening in particular. Or maybe I'm just feeling that way because it happens to be indies I want. Lookin' at Satisfactory and Pathless right now.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

PC gaming was never "open," it was always locked to vendors, mediums, distribution etc. We live in an age where 99% of games could run in web browsers (natively, not even that cloud nonsense). Middlemen should have been eliminated by now, the only reason they exist is gamer culture. You didn't want to pay the publisher directly just so you can see them aligned in a list.

 

[Dominic Decoco]

If I need 50 different launchers to experience exclusives or get in on a deal, then so be it. I don't feel loyalty to any of these brands, I just want to play the game and get my money's worth at the end of the day. I don't know, it's never really bothered me.

As far as having licenses permanently revoked in this digital age, only one time comes to mind for me on PC and that was Darkspore on Origin. It's there in my library but can't be downloaded at all. Your dev friends are correct, you don't technically "own" the games. I'm sure there will be more cases like Darkspore in the future.

 

[oni-link]

All it will do is lead to piracy making a comeback. This is what's happening in the tv/movie streaming space because everyone wanted to use netflix but publishers got greedy and thought if they made their own solutions people would follow. And they're not.

Click to shrink...

Yeah but those all cost money

People don't want to pay for loads of streaming TV/Film services. I can understand why $7 a month is a good deal, but that x5 is a shitty deal (not that piracy is ok because of that)

Unless I'm mistaken, these PC launchers are free, so you can have 1 or 20 launchers, it won't cost you anything. So it seems weird that will push people towards screwing developers out of money, or maybe it's not weird, maybe some PC gamers are just a special type of entitled

 

[Derrick01]

Yeah but those all cost money

People don't want to pay for loads of streaming TV/Film services. I can understand why $7 a month is a good deal, but that x5 is a shitty deal (not that piracy is ok because of that)

Unless I'm mistaken, these PC launchers are free, so you can have 1 or 20 launchers, it won't cost you anything. So it seems weird that will push people towards screwing developers out of money, or maybe it's not weird, maybe some PC gamers are just a special type of entitled

Click to shrink...

People want to use what they like and what's convenient. These other launchers exist for no reason than to get themselves more money, they don't offer the consumer anything and on top of it they all siphon your data too. Two of these companies, bethesda and epic, recently had massive data breaches. Something that Steam never had. There's all sorts of reasons to not want to use their shit clients. I don't agree with pirating stuff but that's what many will do if they're inconvenienced enough.

 

[Adamska]

PC was always a bastion of free, open gaming

Click to shrink...

For that reason alone people shouldn't be up in arms about publishers making their own storefronts/platforms. The PC is an open platform for consumers and makers of games alike, and wanting every game on this or that launcher is not a characteristic of an open platform.

 

[skeezx]

i'm not sure how else people expected things to play out going into the 2020s. you have a successful format the 'competition' won't just leave it be. i won't particularly like having 20 launcher icons on my desktop and timed exclusives but until any of them are locked behind sub fees i'll chalk it up to first world inconvenience

 

[Deleted member 1759]

A few people have said many launches will result in an increase in piracy, and maybe it will, but man

You have to be a pretty special type of asshole to feel like you're entitled to a game for free because the company expected you to launch it from a different icon on your desktop

Click to shrink...

One of the main problems is the lack of adjusted regional pricing. For some regions (Russia, SE/Asia, SA, parts of Europe) games become almost unaffordable and then people living there go back to pirating games. Like they did before Steam introduced regional pricing.

 

[A real sad boy]

People want to use what they like and what's convenient. These other launchers exist for no reason than to get themselves more money, they don't offer the consumer anything and on top of it they all siphon your data too. Two of these companies, bethesda and epic, recently had massive data breaches. Something that Steam never had. There's all sorts of reasons to not want to use their shit clients. I don't agree with pirating stuff but that's what many will do if they're inconvenienced enough.

Click to shrink...

I seem to recall being able to view someone else's account information on Steam a few years back. That's a pretty major data issue to me 🤷‍♂️

 

[Bigjig]

Out of curiosity, what is the refund policy like on Epic's store? I get the sense that some devs (Bethesda) don't want to be on Steam because of Steams generous refund policy.

 

[hephaestus]

I`m still not seeing what the problem is with different launchers? I mean When I want to play rainbow 6 I just click on the Icon, Battlefield same thing, same thing with anything on steam. Honestly I don`t even notice that they are different launchers.

 

[oni-link]

People want to use what they like and what's convenient. These other launchers exist for no reason than to get themselves more money, they don't offer the consumer anything and on top of it they all siphon your data too. Two of these companies, bethesda and epic, recently had massive data breaches. Something that Steam never had. There's all sorts of reasons to not want to use their shit clients. I don't agree with pirating stuff but that's what many will do if they're inconvenienced enough.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I agree it's not ideal, and data breeches are a concern, but Valve were ahead of the curve really, and now everyone else is catching up

It's not necessarily great for the consumer, but you can't expect all these publishers to hand Valve 30% when they could be taking that 30% themselves

I can see the appeal to having all your games in one place, and I 100% believe people will be petty enough to pirate games because of this

It's not really something I can see solution to, though it's worth discussing

 

[Lashley]

The PC isn't a console. This comparassion is incredibly disingenuous.

Click to shrink...

No, it isn't.

I thankfully use Playnite, but theres like 10 different launchers now and it takes the piss. I wouldn't even mind if these storefronts offered a tenth of what Valve do with Steam.

 

[Adamska]

You have to be a pretty special type of asshole to feel like you're entitled to a game for free because the company expected you to launch it from a different icon on your desktop

Click to shrink...

True that.

 

[hephaestus]

People want to use what they like and what's convenient. These other launchers exist for no reason than to get themselves more money, they don't offer the consumer anything and on top of it they all siphon your data too. Two of these companies, bethesda and epic, recently had massive data breaches. Something that Steam never had. There's all sorts of reasons to not want to use their shit clients. I don't agree with pirating stuff but that's what many will do if they're inconvenienced enough.

Click to shrink...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-10-valve-admits-hackers-accessed-steam-transaction-log

 

[Serious Sam]

A few people have said many launches will result in an increase in piracy, and maybe it will, but man

You have to be a pretty special type of asshole to feel like you're entitled to a game for free because the company expected you to launch it from a different icon on your desktop

Click to shrink...

While some might pirate out of spite that will not be the main reason for increased piracy, so it's not about different icon. Way to simplify and trivialize the issue. You probably have no idea how many years and how hard Steam worked to become a legitimate option to piracy in emerging markets.

Epic's way of entering credit card info to purchase a game for 60 bucks or euros will NEVER work outside US and richer EU countries. This is why Steam has like 10 different methods to acquire games and this is just another one of countless reasons why Steam is so popular.

 

[Turin Turambar]

People are so hypocritical.

They always remark how PC gaming is an open platform... but when it isn't beneficial for them, being an open platform is bad, not good. /rolleyes

You take the good with the bad.



I'm not surprised with what's happening. People knew this was coming since 3 or 4 years. At that time we already could guess what was going to happen: every big publisher would have their own exclusive store for their games, and it's the most normal thing in the world that some big company sees Steam, and dares to face them and start competing.

Think like this: this eight years or so of Steam dominance and benevolent monopoly were always an anomaly, not what's normal. We now return to normality.

 

[Fafalada]

To be blunt about it, my biggest issue is having my payment information/personal information in 1 too many systems.

Click to shrink...

This is my main problem with the rise in online services each with its own data-copy and login in general. Most of them do not allow deletion of your data or sometimes not even closing the account (ever), leaving that data permanently resident somewhere waiting for a data-breach even long after you stopped using the service.
On the plus side this and all the regional payment restrictions every online-store has, forced me to just not use payment info with virtually all any of them, which helps a lot with any temptation of impulse buys. It's lost revenue for the providers to inconvenience people in these ways - but they are literally bringing it on themselves.

 

[Khamsinvera]

Steam and Battle.net - not installing anything else. Enough games on those 2 to keep me occupied for a lifetime.

 

[Blyr]

It's unnecessary & annoying tbh, it seems like everyone wants their own ecosystem for you to buy into and integrate so you spend your money there exclusively, with their own currencies and whatnot & like - can we just not

I open steam, I have my steam wallet & all my games there so I know exactly what I have, patches download automatically, my saves upload to the cloud automatically, it's nice and neat and organized, then I hear about some new game thats kinda interesting, and I have to figure out which launcher its on, install that, go through all that BS of setting up a new account just for that one game, and now I have to keep another launcher on my computer specifically for that one game and deal with its start up bs and whatever it is every time I want to play that one game specifically, which is just incredibly annoying

It wasn't so bad when there were just 1 or 2 storefronts, bc they'd be getting such a large library of games each and having deals that you generally knew where things were, and it didn't feel like a hassle to have to install yet more software just to play a single game, but now every publisher wants their own pc storefront, & heaven forbid you format your computer every year or so to keep it running smoothly, bc then you have to remember which game is exclusive to which launcher and go download that instead of just having the 2 or 3 that have all your games so you can know exactly what you have immediately as opposed to taking a wild guess

like I'm sure I have games on some some launchers i'm not even aware of and I forgot about them, and they're just lost to time now bc I'm not going to go through the effort to dig through and see what's where

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I wish there was a third party launcher tool that would just let you consolidate all your store front accounts into one launcher or something.

Like outlook but for all these libraries i have spread out.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with all of this if i could just have one way to launch it all.

But obviously this isn't viable since the launchers are basically DRM