• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
Epic have already stated that they will not try to match Steam in terms of features. How the fuck is that going to cause Valve to want to improve their own service? There is absolutely zero reason for me to buy a game on Epic over Steam. Epic want to compete not by matching the service but by buying exclusivity of games. I understand that that's business but for me, it is shit. I'd have to pay the same price for a game that will have less features than the version that would have released on Steam anyway. If Epic want to make their own games as exclusives that would be different, however. Right now, I have no desire to support their store. I will support different stores that offer their own features, sales etc
This is the elephant in the room that people are ignoring with the "give it time" arguments.

GoG, for example, is often a bit behind Steam in features, but they are also continuously catching up and seem dedicated to matching the consumer experience (and exceeding it in certain ways e.g. DRM).

On the other hand, a new platform that can't even deliver the very basics like cloud saves at launch, has already stated that they are not going to match the feature set of their competitors, and punctuates their entry into the market by paying developers to remove games from platforms they were already announced for is not something I can muster much support for.

Store fragmentation is actually about how gamers don't want you to do that. A different sort of lock-in.
Gamers want to buy games on platforms that give them great features for free. I can't blame them at all for that.

It's strange how many PC users are fine that a company with a bare bones storefront, is throwing money at developers to not put their game on other storefronts.
Are many PC users fine with that, actually? In PC gaming communities I frequent it mostly doesn't look like it.

If it does though, then Steam might have to reconsider some things.
My problem is that I feel like people always seem to think that these reconsideration will be positive.

E.g. what if Valve "reconsiders" supporting open source developers since that doesn't really have an immediate payoff?
What if they "reconsider" investing too much in large-scale user-facing features (like the Steam controller API and rebinding functionality) since the market has shown that using those funds in more predatory ways is more effective?
What if they change their policy they've maintained for over a decade and start buying exclusives left and right?

Call me a pessimist, but if anti-consumer practices like buying exclusivity prove successful then I don't have much trust that the changes enacted in response will be desirable.
 

kostacurtas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,065
I don't have any issue at all using more than one launchers.

The 30% cut that Steam takes is big and is only logical that most of the big publishers have launched or will launch their own services.

Of course I am using Steam. More than 500 games there.

I am playing Ubisoft games only on Uplay. The 20% discount from the Uplay coins is a really great option.

I am playing EA games only on Origin. Also this year I subscribed on Origin Premier Access as I usually buying two or more of their games each year so it is a great value for money option.

I have used Battle.net launcher for Diablo III. I will use it again on the next Diablo game. I am not a Destiny or COD guy.

I have used the Windows store for FH 3 and Forza 7. For sure the worst experience from all the services I have used on the PC.

I have used Rockstar launcher for GTA V and I will not have any issue to use it again when RDR 2 will be available on the PC (come on Rockstar...).

Will I use the Epic store or Bethesda launcher? Yes, why not. Rage 2 is looking like a really fun game.

Many PC gamers that want to use exclusively Steam will not have an option to play many big games in the future.
 

sinny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,421
If regional pricing comes to other storefronts then i will see, till then Steam it is.
 

JLP101

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,745
As I stated before, smaller and mid tier indie developers are going to get hurt the worst with this.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289

I admit I was wrong but that data was dated from 2004-2008 and was taken years later (2012 as dated by the article) so it was mostly outdated information. Epic and Bethesda's breaches affected current data. In fact Epic's had several breaches in the last few years that I know of but they get a lot more attention due to having the biggest game in the world. Not that that excuses it since they're trying to lure more people onto their system with bribed content.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Imagine Microsoft moneyhatting a former multiplat game but you being able to play it just by downloading a launcher on your Playstation...

THE-HORROR-DARK-c.jpg
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
My problem is that I feel like people always seem to think that these reconsideration will be positive.

E.g. what if Valve "reconsiders" supporting open source developers since that doesn't really have an immediate payoff?
What if they "reconsider" investing too much in large-scale user-facing features (like the Steam controller API and rebinding functionality) since the market has shown that using those funds in more predatory ways is more effective?
What if they change their policy they've maintained for over a decade and start buying exclusives left and right?

Call me a pessimist, but if anti-consumer practices like buying exclusivity prove successful then I don't have much trust that the changes enacted in response will be desirable.

That's fair. But at the end of the day, not wanting any change for fear that it could provoke undesirable outcomes for the company you feel is the most pro consumer.. isn't good for the industry either.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
Yeah I agree it's not ideal, and data breeches are a concern, but Valve were ahead of the curve really, and now everyone else is catching up

It's not necessarily great for the consumer, but you can't expect all these publishers to hand Valve 30% when they could be taking that 30% themselves

I can see the appeal to having all your games in one place, and I 100% believe people will be petty enough to pirate games because of this

It's not really something I can see solution to, though it's worth discussing

The thing is though, sure 30% is alot but in the grand scheme of things it also really isn't. Of course Valve wants to make money and be profitable but it's not like they take the 30% and the companies that sell their games on Steam don't get anything in return, they get:

- hosting
- a DRM method
- an anti-cheat solution
- an integrated forum and discussion platform for their games
- advertising
- a method to patch their games
- an easy solution to handle mods for games

and probably many other things I'm forgetting.

This. This is what gets my back up too.

It's the reason I like the likes of Uplay.

Same here, I actually welcome competition to Steam but not like this. To me, an open platform and actual competition on PC would be a game sold on Steam and the Epic Launcher and Origin and Discord and uPlay and GoG Galaxy and whereever else, then these store can compete for customers properly via pricing, attractiveness and features. This moneyhatting approach is what's bad, not the Epic Launcher getting games by itself.

And for the record, I would be up in arms too if Valve would pull the same with Steam. This kind of practice is annoying at best and shady at worst. I didn't like it when Microsoft did it with Tomb Raider, I don't like it what Sony does with CoD and I would be angry no matter who does it. Of course it's fine to lock games to your system if you actually made the game, like Half-Life 2 or if someone salvaged an IP like Nintendo did with Bayonetta 2 or helped with actually getting the game realized like Sony supposedly did with Street Fighter V. But paying a developer or publisher to actively stop them from releasing a game on another storefront just because if you aren't directly involved in the game one way or another, that's scummy and doesn't get my support at all.
 

Lazybob

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,710
Personally I don't care about having multiple launchers. It's a minor inconvenience for me. If a launcher is just broken and can't be trusted that's another story and I will be unlikely to buy their games unless I'm confident things changed (referring to bethesda).
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
I will just copy what I said in other thread.

Steam is not just a store. Over the years Steam became a platform. Epic and Bethesda Launchers are so barebones, that they can only be called store fronts. As a consumer I choose whats best and most convenient for me. Sure, supporting dev is cool and all, but I won't make a decision to use inferior platform just because dev will get a bit more money from me. It's like having an option of playing Borderlands 2 on PS TV or PS4. PS TV version is serviceable, but Borderlands 2 on PS4 is indefinitely better, so why would I choose the former? When Steam wanted devs to release their games on Steam, they didn't bribe them. They didn't tell them that they couldn't release the game on other stores if they wanted to put a game on Steam. Steam is more open than most people think. Devs can generate as much game keys as they want for free and then sell them elsewhere. Steam gets 0% share that way, but they still allow it. Where do you think keys from Humble Store and other stores come from? Steam didn't fight with competition by making 3rd party games exclusive. They fought them with features that make Steam a platform. You have Big Picture Mode, Achievements, Dedicated forums for every game, Community page for every game, Cloud saves, Family Sharing, Refunds, Universal Controller support, Steam In-Home Streaming, Proton, and the list goes on! You get all of this for free and Steam is doing this to fight for the consumer. How many of the mentioned features those other stores have? Most things I mentioned are made for convenience. Want to play Rage 2 on two computers? Have fun manually copying saves every time you switch computers. Want to refund a game because its riddled with bugs or it doesn't work for you? Good luck. You want to use your gaming PC on TV sitting on a comfy couch with a controller? Not going to happen without Big Picture Mode. You want to share that new Fallout game you just bought with a friend? Yeah, no, you can't do that. Now image we actually accepted that reality and every publisher release games on their own store fronts. You have like 8 launchers, so with 8 launchers comes 8 friends lists. You have a friend that also plays on PC? Cool, you have to add him to friend list 8 times. Not the most terrible thing in the world, but lets be honest - it would be super inconvenient and irritating. And imagine how many launcher updates you would have to deal with. Look how many friends lists you would have to browse through to see if your friend is playing something.

If you only play single player games or you don't care for all those features and you just want to buy a game and just play it, then cool, I guess multiple launchers doesn't change much. But you have to aknowledge that whatever Epic and Bethesda is doing right now is not competition. You know what would be best for consumer and developer? Options. Want to buy it on Steam or Epic Store? You choose. CD Projekt is an example of doing things right. They have their own platform - GOG and yet they released games on Steam too. How did they try to attract people to buy their games on GOG? By making them cheaper than on Steam. That's what I would call competition. If Epic and Bethesda want to compete with Steam, then they should either do it GOG way or they should expand their launchers with features that will benefit players.

PC gaming is open without epic and Bethesda launchers. You have MANY stores that you can get games from and that compete with steam. The cool thing is that when you buy games from those stores, you actually get Steam keys, so you get all the benefits that comes with it. I have nearly 200 games on Steam, but maybe 10 of them were bought directly on Steam. I got the rest of them from various stores.

Edit. So when people say "What's wrong with pressing a different button to launch game" are missing a point.
Well said. Although I don't see Bethesda launcher on the same level as Epic store. What they are doing is different from Epic and no different than Origin and Battle.net as they are exclusively releasing their own games on it. Uplay does it too but at least Uplay plays nice with steam. Whereas Epic is locking third party games that they aren't even publishing.
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,482
I'm going to stick with Steam and GoG, that's it. I don't need 20 fucking launchers on my machine to play a video game, and i like my library in one place. Thanks.

My sentiments exactly.

And for those who don't care, just give it more time; everyone has a limit. When there are 500 different storefronts out there, each with exclusive games, people will be singing a different tune. Just wait.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
It's the nature of an open non unified platform.

You already have several clients for chatting, community, not to mention the big games that skipped steam since forever.
Imagine turning on your Playstation/Xbox/Switch and having to open about 6 different launchers to play your games.
thats already a thing on consoles, only you have to buy a new one to be able to access the marketplace, which is why the publishers are doing it, the cost of entry is ridiculously low compared to that, it's literally a download away.
 

shoptroll

Member
May 29, 2018
3,680
I don't see the Epic store being that much different than Itch, Steam, GOG, Humble, etc. It's an option currently. It's also incredibly early so who knows how things shake out over the 12-18 months.

As for moneyhatting... Whatever. GOG already does it. Humble is paying for their own games. Itch operates as a reverse moneyhat as you can find stuff there that doesn't even show up in the other stores. And there's games out there that don't even have bother with the popular storefronts.

It'll be fine. The sky isn't falling.

As I stated before, smaller and mid tier indie developers are going to get hurt the worst with this.

Are they? Epic offers better terms than Steam in terms of revenue share, and doesn't currently have the discoverability problem that Steam has (because lol there's only like 6 games on it). A number of devs have reported in the last year that their games are selling better on Switch than Steam. If Epic plays their cards right there's a good chance they'll see a gold rush of indies and smaller developers on their store front.
 

Baha

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
771
My games library is large enough that any further fragmentation is good enough reason for me to pass on purchasing a game. I guess that's more indicative of where I am as a pc gamer I suppose. As long as these devs on the epic games store find their audience they should be ok but I'm not optimistic. I mean, the Epic games store has launched with fewer features than Uplay and Uplay came out 4 years ago. Revenue split is nice but why should consumers care if you're not even going to meet them not even half way with features tailored to their experience with your client.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
I'm copy and pasting a post I made in the Super Meat Boy thread as well. This is about EPIC's launcher in particular, but as some general points as well.

One of the best aspects of PC gaming is it being an open market.

While I'm happy EPIC is supporting indie games, it's very clear they still don't understand the PC market at all. And I don't think many longer term PC gamers have forgotten EPIC was one of the first developers to hop ship off PC gaming and call all of them a bunch of pirates back in the early 2000s. So to come back still actively not understanding the PC gamer playerbase I think is not sitting well with people, and money hatting games to try to get people to come to your store (including games that were to be released elsewhere before this) and make people use more launchers, I think it's a bit obvious why people are upset over this.

Since Steam has to come into the picture here for discussion inevitably, Valve has never money-hatted any of their games, and have even allowed their first-party games to be sold on other stores. They attracted people through their specific launcher's features and single-handily revitalized PC gaming and set a standard. If other stores can't meet that standard and try to force their way into the market by money hatting games and not much else, it won't succeed. Money hatting is something many PC gamers hate and what made PC exclusive gamers often leave consoles in the first place since the dumb "money hatting" of games locking them to a single platform is tiring stuff to deal with, it isn't an attractive appeal to PC gamers and one they'd be understandably upset by seeing more corporations trying to approach PC gaming in this method.

Competition isn't bad, but the competition is not understand the platform they are trying to sell on and doing things that will actively turn-off their userbase. One of the big reasons PC gamers chose PC is because they like the openess of it, where to play your games, customize them, etc. So trying to close off games exclusively to certain markets is not the way to win over this playerbase, especially when there's already a standard in place here these other stores aren't living up to.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Epic is doing what needs to be done to get eyes on their storefront. If they're looking to compete I don't see a problem with it. If they're just going to another bit player, it really blows for anyone interested in those games. Steam is gargantuan and nigh-ubiquitous on PC, there is almost no other way that I can see to attract attention and get people onto your storefront.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
Epic is doing what needs to be done to get eyes on their storefront. If they're looking to compete I don't see a problem with it. If they're just going to another bit player, it really blows for anyone interested in those games. Steam is gargantuan and nigh-ubiquitous on PC, there is almost no other way that I can see to attract attention and get people onto your storefront.
Sell games cheaper than steam? I mean that's how Cdkeys,GMG, GoG compete and they seem to be doing fine without moneyhatting. And steam still allows these games their competitors sell to be integrated into Steamworks ecosystem despite Valve not making anything off the sale.

Devs/pubs can even generate steam
Keys for free of cost and sell it on their own system or to a retailer/reseller. This is how these steam competitors I mentioned get the steam keys without paying anything to Valve. The 30% is only for the games sold on steam store not all steamworks games added into someone's library.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
It's not fragmentation, it's expansion.
Expansion wouldn't feature exclusivity. This only limits consumer choice which is 100% a bad thing, always.

Epic is doing what needs to be done to get eyes on their storefront. If they're looking to compete I don't see a problem with it. If they're just going to another bit player, it really blows for anyone interested in those games. Steam is gargantuan and nigh-ubiquitous on PC, there is almost no other way that I can see to attract attention and get people onto your storefront.
This is just wrong. There are so many issues with Steam that a good faith competitor could easily solve in order to attract a sizeable customer base. There is no need for strongarm tactics when there is still so much more to offer consumers.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,110
Pakistan
PC gaming for the most part was pretty down and dare I even say OUT during Steam's early days as 2002-2007 and not only the devs but even the consumers were stating PC gaming's death thanks to its dwindling presence in retail but slowly and surely it was being brought back into the fray by Valve's digital distribution platform with its all in one place, ease of use gaming that immensely helped in collecting huge chunks of PC Gamers who were previously scattered all over the globe, under one umbrella. Things have gone from strength to strength thanks to the several features introduced by valve over the users and due to that, we had flocks of publishers and developers come to steam and sell their games and now we had PC gaming back in business after all this time.

All of this was made possible due to consumers. Because there were a huge amount of them on steam is how devs and pubs have been making money off the platform. If there were no consumers you simply wouldn't be making money and exactly why they use steam and even go to means of defending it day and night? Because steam as a store and as a PC client is the most convenient for them by choice. Now I understand that indie devs sometimes make a hard living out of making games and their livelihood depends on it, but looking at this equation one-sidedly will bring them no value nor profit because at the end of the day it depends on the consumers of the said platform, whether your game turns out a success or failure. What epic is trying to is clearly at attempting fragment the platform using wrong snd futile means in trying to lure out consumers regardless of the damage it does to the PC platform but iam sure they don't care as they were one of first few big fishes to jump ship when their profits were dwindling way back and even blatantly called PC gamers pirates. Thankfully most of us realize this and the danger Epic poses to PC Gaming and are calling them out on this shitty endeavour of theirs. They want to challenge the biggest competitor not with features but through cash and moneyhatting the devs without any regard to their users.

Hence they pose a danger To PC gaming not as much but similar to the MS Store at their futile attempts in trying to fragment PC gaming.
 

JLP101

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,745
Are they? Epic offers better terms than Steam in terms of revenue share, and doesn't currently have the discoverability problem that Steam has (because lol there's only like 6 games on it). A number of devs have reported in the last year that their games are selling better on Switch than Steam. If Epic plays their cards right there's a good chance they'll see a gold rush of indies and smaller developers on their store front.

One problem though, Epic is a curated store which means you have to wait for there approval first. If you get on it then great but if not then you are left out in the cold. Sure you have steam, but now steam isn't so big anymore, now some gamers are on origin playing battlefield, there on uplay playing assassins creed, there on bethseda's launcher playing Elder Scrolls 6, some gamer's are on epics new service etc. When you fragment the market on all these different services it becomes much harder to gain traction and exposure which is essential for the low to mid tier developers.

Epics new store reminds me of the early days of Steam, I think once the honeymoon phase is over and reality sets in I think Epic and developers are going to realize running a store front isn't as easy as it looks.
 

Baha

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
771
A good faith competitor to Steam without the GaaS baggage from micro transactions and lootboxes with near or equal community and store features would be revered in the PC gaming space. People underestimate how far goodwill will get you in this industry given how many times bad faith players have tried and failed in this market. I mean, just look at Microsoft....and don't copy them maybe.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Before steam, i played games in my pc. No unified storefront, some games didn't even had installers, but i still played.

Few games cd's roted, and cd had copy protection believe or not, and i lost game forever, even them being "mine". But i still played.

The only difference between now and then is that now is that there is stores out there ready to give me (actually good) games for free even before i give any payment information. Maybe i'm cheap, but i think its a worthy cost.
 

JLP101

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,745
I'm copy and pasting a post I made in the Super Meat Boy thread as well. This is about EPIC's launcher in particular, but as some general points as well.

One of the best aspects of PC gaming is it being an open market.

While I'm happy EPIC is supporting indie games, it's very clear they still don't understand the PC market at all. And I don't think many longer term PC gamers have forgotten EPIC was one of the first developers to hop ship off PC gaming and call all of them a bunch of pirates back in the early 2000s. So to come back still actively not understanding the PC gamer playerbase I think is not sitting well with people, and money hatting games to try to get people to come to your store (including games that were to be released elsewhere before this) and make people use more launchers, I think it's a bit obvious why people are upset over this.

Sorry Dusk Golem but I think they understand the market just fine. The people they are going after are not me and you...we're old :P We remember the old days. The people they want to get are the people spending money on Fortnight, the younger crowds. If they can get that demographic to drop cash on the store then its like a ball rolling down a hill, once momentum builds its going to be hard to stop. Giving away free games every 2 weeks is a good way to start building up the library fast on a new service.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Sell games cheaper than steam? I mean that's how Cdkeys,GMG, GoG compete and they seem to be doing fine without moneyhatting. And steam still allows these games their competitors sell to be integrated into Steamworks ecosystem despite Valve not making anything off the sale.

Devs/pubs can even generate steam
Keys for free of cost and sell it on their own system or to a retailer/reseller. This is how these steam competitors I mentioned get the steam keys.

If all it took was selling games cheaper than Steam I'm pretty sure we would have seen on one of the other platforms out there. It'd be nice but it's not going to happen.

This is just wrong. There are so many issues with Steam that a good faith competitor could easily solve in order to attract a sizeable customer base. There is no need for strongarm tactics when there is still so much more to offer consumers.

I agree that there are ton of issues with Steam. I have been pretty vocal in the past about my distaste for their platform and its archaic design but I disagree that it's going to take just better features for another platform to attract views. I genuinely believe it's going to take a combination of usability, features and strong-arm tactics like this, I just don't see any other way to start taking a bite out of Steam's pie.
 

MattB

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,904
I honestly don't know how people expect a competitor to show up without doing this tactic. Like honestly it's the only way someone can even attempt to compete with steam. This exclusive stuff needs to happen at first. It sucks Yea but how do you get people to your platform without 95% of the customers saying naaa I'll just buy it on steam. I want to see how this store is in a year. I see it being a good thing in the long end.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
Imagine Microsoft moneyhatting a former multiplat game but you being able to play it just by downloading a launcher on your Playstation...

So you download the separate launcher. Your friend's list doesn't carry over. This launcher doesn't offer trophies or the ability to share photos/videos. It's just a bare icon you click on to play your game.

The uproar would be huge.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Didn't see this was a thread, but I posted my nightmare scenario over in the PC thread:

- Linux support requires more effort than it does now, since the only client interested in including it out the box is Steam. For example, I know Doom is often one of the first things people often try in Proton because of it's excellent Vulkan performance. The Bethesda launcher is going to screw that up with Doom 2. I will most likely still have Wine or could just hook Proton up manually, but it's back to square 1 again for more casual users.
- These launchers often lack regional pricing. The lack of regional pricing on these launchers causes the rise of piracy in poorer countries who cannot afford to pay the equivelent of rent money for a videogame.
- PC gaming becomes a cluttered mess of launchers, casual gamers begin to claim it's "too much effort" to handle them all. We are already getting pretty close to this I feel.
- All of the above causes a decrease in sales, "PC is filled with pirates" comes back again, publishers start to lose trust in the PC platform, and we end up back in 2000-2008 territory and a second dark age of PC gaming, only now with like 10 launchers.

We are still some way from this being a thing, and I doubt we'll ever get there, but it definitely feels like this is the direction publishers like Epic are trying to take us down.
 
Last edited:

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
If all it took was selling games cheaper than Steam I'm pretty sure we would have seen on one of the other platforms out there. It'd be nice but it's not going to happen.



I agree that there are ton of issues with Steam. I have been pretty vocal in the past about my distaste for their platform and its archaic design but I disagree that it's going to take just better features for another platform to attract views. I genuinely believe it's going to take a combination of usability, features and strong-arm tactics like this, I just don't see any other way to start taking a bite out of Steam's pie.
I mean I did mention these other platforms that are already out there that you can see right now in the very post you quoted. What else do you think GoG, Cdkeys, GMG are if not platforms and competition? A significant number of people right here on this forum don't even buy from steam because they buy from those stores due to the cheaper prices.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,199
Any tweets or articles or whatever from various devs about this issue? Would be interested to read.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
If all it took was selling games cheaper than Steam I'm pretty sure we would have seen on one of the other platforms out there. It'd be nice but it's not going to happen.



I agree that there are ton of issues with Steam. I have been pretty vocal in the past about my distaste for their platform and its archaic design but I disagree that it's going to take just better features for another platform to attract views. I genuinely believe it's going to take a combination of usability, features and strong-arm tactics like this, I just don't see any other way to start taking a bite out of Steam's pie.
Regardless, Epic is only providing the latter in this recent case. That should certainly be met with little but scorn from consumers.
 

Carlius

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,000
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Steam has no competition and they will never do cause steam keeps itself up to date impriving often.

Origin and uplay lack everything but are not intrusive and do offer some benefits of their own. Epic client has nothing on uplay and origin, imagine if theyd hAve anything on steam. Nothing. Steam is number one and it will stay that way for a very very long time.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
I mean I did mention these other platforms that are already out there that you can see right now in the very post you quoted. What else do you think GoG, Cdkeys, GMG are if not platforms and competition? A significant number of people right here on this forum don't even buy from steam because they buy from those stores due to the cheaper prices.

I mean, Cdkeys and GMG are just key resellers, are they not? I don't personally buy games from Steam very often, but almost all of the keys I buy on those sites (and trust me, I have a giant bookmark folder of every single key reseller out there) are used on Steam. When it comes to actual other platforms, I perfer GOG and Origin in usability and visual appeal, I always have, but again, almost every key I buy ends up on Steam.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,994
Don't understand the Valve defense force about literally every aspect of them, as a developer and a storefront operator.

Crying about "exclusives" is silly when it's just a matter of having another launcher. Annoying, sure, but not terrible.

Maybe instead of wanting everything to be on Steam you should direct your ire at Epic to include the features, prices, etc that you want and Valve to stop being complacent. Epic improving their service will only make sure Valve will as well, its a win for everyone.

PC should be an open space, Steam should not be the de facto "platform" otherwise it's just a glorified console.
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,024
Don't understand the Valve defense force about literally every aspect of them, as a developer and a storefront operator.

Crying about "exclusives" is silly when it's just a matter of having another launcher. Annoying, sure, but not terrible.

Maybe instead of wanting everything to be on Steam you should direct your ire at Epic to include the features, prices, etc that you want and Valve to stop being complacent. Epic improving their service will only make sure Valve will as well, its a win for everyone.
Valve constantly improve the Steam client though. There is a reason people love using the Steam client so much, not sure why that's seemingly so hard for others to grasp.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
I don't like at all... I have always stated that's what I hate about pc gaming the most.
The most consumer friendly way is to put your games on all stores and THEN give incentives to use your store.

What people aren't thinking about is that one day consoles will go away and all that's left is digital stores that are on multiple devices. On that day of this fragmentation continues to grow then all the PlayStation and Xbox services will be is just another store front among many that only sells their own games. Every publisher will have thier own store.
It's a very bleak future for the little guys.
 
Last edited:

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,024
I don't like at all... I have always stated that's what I hate about pc gaming the most.
The most consumer friendly way is to put your games on all stores and THEN give incentives to use your store.

What people aren't thinking about is that one day consoles will go away and all that's left is digital stores that are on multiple devices. On that day of this fragmentation continues to grow then all the PlayStation and Xbox services will be is just another store front among many that only sales their games. Every publisher will have thier own store.
It's a very bleak future for the little guys.
This. 100%.
 

Deleted member 25108

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,877
You know you don't have to play every game at launch right?

If you don't want to use the Epic launcher, don't. It's an option for people who want it and as a perk, at the moment it has a few exclusive games (which will eventually come to steam anyway)

If developers start signing lifetime exclusives, I get the arguement, but right now, it's a brand new store. It's got to do something to build a following.

It sucks that you don't have a one stop shop for games anymore, but honestly, you never did. There was always games you had to buy elsewhere.

There are more games on steam both released and upcoming than you will be able to play in a natural and unnatural lifetime. It's not worth loosing your shit over a handful of Indies that would have got lost in the daily torrent of new steam releases anyway.

Personally I can't see myself using the Epic launcher. I'm like many of you, I like all my
games in one place and hate even signing into more than one account to play a game (uplay and rockstar club are fucking annoying) but this isn't like console exclusivity. The last of us 2 is never going to be playable on an Xbox, short of Microsoft buying Sony outright.

It's at best timed exclusivity which will quickly die out because no AAA developer is going to sign up to launch exclusively on Epics launcher instead of launching on their own storefront and pocketing all the profits. Only indies desperate to get a bit more visibility are going to sign up to this and they will not be able to ignore steams userbase forever. Even if they sign a non-steam clause with epic, they will eventually sell their game somewhere that can allow the game to be sideloaded on steam as a non-steam game.

It's really much ado about nothing in the long run.
 
Last edited:

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,921
I'm torn. I'm not happy with the way Valve has been doing things lately, their complete disinterest in moderating or curating anything, foisting everything off on users and algorithms.

But I have absolutely no interest in maintaining 6 different clients. Steam and GoG are the only ones I let launch on startup. I almost never open up Origin or Battle.net and don't even have U-Play installed.
 

MickeyKnox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
589
We'll see.

If I had to guess, this goes on for another few years, we get to a point where there are around a dozen different launchers that have "big" platform exclusives locked up, taking what was once a single huge pool of customers and splintering them off into a smaller groups, taking the eyeballs and wallets of the people who are mainly interested in (insert big AAA game franchise title here) away from the games that are not on the launcher hosting said particular title, eventually leading to a contraction of the PC games market sparking calls of doom and gloom before something else happens and the market inevitably bounces back.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
Ideally the PC market would have all games being on all clients (maybe with the exception of 1st party stuff, but for the sake of argument lets go with all) and then retailers like GMG, cdkeys etc would have a list where you pick what client you want the key for when buying games on there so we can keep lower prices too. This way everyone wins and customers are happy.

But this will never happen because publishers don't want to compete and make a better client, so they know most people would choose Steam in this scenario. So instead of allowing an open market to take place they decide to withhold games and buy off other people's games as their only way to compete. It's literally the laziest method of "competition" possible. Throwing money at the problem and sitting back and doing nothing.