UNC Agrees to Pay Out 2.5 Million to Fund Confederate Memorial

Reym

Member
Jul 15, 2019
229
How UNC System Gave Silent Sam to Confederate Group - Newsobserver

The payment comes ostensibly in response to a lawsuit from the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The deal for the ownership and maintenance of the statue starts to look awfully shady once you notice that the settlement agreement came before the lawsuit was even filed.

Seems like a convenient way to disguise your 2.5 million donation to a racist group. Side note, the school system recently shuttered a Civil Rights program due to lack of funding.

Apologies if old.
 
OP
OP
Reym

Reym

Member
Jul 15, 2019
229

Victory letter from SCV. (Yes, I did come to this story following T. Greg Doucette.)
 

TheJackdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
792
universities should not have 2.5 million dollars just laying around to appropriate to a fuckin statue.
 

Betty

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,022
I really don't get this.

The confederacy were the losers, they surrendered, they fought to keep slavery and were overall kinda dicks.

It would be like nazi's in Germany getting a grant to build statues of Hitler.
 

Slayven

I don’t know what you’re talking about
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
40,397
Follow the money, the racism is just a happy benefit
 

devilhawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
680
Curiously, this is the same school that thought it was worthwhile to run a fake African American studies program for multiple decades.
 

Slayven

I don’t know what you’re talking about
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
40,397
I really don't get this.

The confederacy were the losers, they surrendered, they fought to keep slavery and were overall kinda dicks.

It would be like nazi's in Germany getting a grant to build statues of Hitler.
The satutues are just a shady way of reminding black people that their rights are only exist as long as racists and racist enabling society tolerates them.
 

sangreal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,677
I can understand giving them the statue but I don't understand why they would also give them money from a trust (or set up a trust? article isn't clear) to pay for its future

“Since August of 2018 when [Silent Sam] was ripped down, we have been looking for a way through our attorney, Boyd Sturges, to accomplish one of two things: either to have the memorial restored to its place of honour on campus while being properly protected; or to gain possession of the memorial and make an equally prominent public display for it at UNC’s expense,” the letter says.
Why does the University owe it to them to display it at the university's expense?

It really seems like the University's board just supports the statue and wants to make sure it's displayed

I really don't get this.

The confederacy were the losers, they surrendered, they fought to keep slavery and were overall kinda dicks.

It would be like nazi's in Germany getting a grant to build statues of Hitler.
The statue was originally from the daughters of the confederacy, a (very successful) revisionist history movement that doesn't acknowledge any of that. They gave it to the sons of the confederacy to facilitate this lawsuit
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,784
Arkansas, USA
My Mom got a full ride to UNC but transferred out after only a year because of its culture. And to my knowledge Chapel Hill hasn't changed much since then. They have some good programs and professors/researchers, but the leadership at UNC is rotten to the core.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,865
Pencils Vania
I really don't get this.

The confederacy were the losers, they surrendered, they fought to keep slavery and were overall kinda dicks.

It would be like nazi's in Germany getting a grant to build statues of Hitler.
Laws were put in place in Germany to prevent people from championing Nazis.

We never did that with the Confederacy.
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
21,659
My Mom got a full ride to UNC but transferred out after only a year because of its culture. And to my knowledge Chapel Hill hasn't changed much since then. They have some good programs and professors/researchers, but the leadership at UNC is rotten to the core.
Huh, my mom almost taught at Chapel Hill (and I would have ended up moving to the area) but my dad couldn't find a job there so we never moved.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,551
Wisconsin
Very weird situation, it's like the UNC admins were so worried about scv idiots coming to campus to stir up shit that they paid them the money just to shut them up, which is the stupidest response imaginable. Literally negotiating with domestic terrorists
 

sangreal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,677
Very weird situation, it's like the UNC admins were so worried about scv idiots coming to campus to stir up shit that they paid them the money just to shut them up, which is the stupidest response imaginable. Literally negotiating with domestic terrorists
Is it even a negotiation when you give them more than they asked for?

He said their legal action was immediately met with a settlement offer that gave the group “legal possession of Silent Sam, and over $2 million in a dedicated trust (that we requested) for the perpetual care of Silent Sam and the purchase of land on which to prominently display him, to build a small museum for the public, and to build a comprehensive Division headquarters for the benefit of the membership.

“What we have accomplished is something that I never dreamed we could accomplish in a thousand years, and all at the expense of the University itself,” the letter said.
 

Glasfrut

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,030
Imagine being so hurt your granddaddy lost and was a fucking bum that your family (and people) has to spend generations trying to rewrite history. I guess "ain't shit" is a dominant gene.
 
Nov 8, 2017
4,434
I really don't get this.

The confederacy were the losers, they surrendered, they fought to keep slavery and were overall kinda dicks.

It would be like nazi's in Germany getting a grant to build statues of Hitler.
Laws were put in place in Germany to prevent people from championing Nazis.

We never did that with the Confederacy.
The idea of commemorating the war dead in some capacity does exist even in Germany. There are little plaques scattered about the place that include the names of dead and missing soldiers from WWII. The most common form I've seen them come in is that they'll be WWI memorials that have WWII names added after the fact, or were designed from the start as "World War Memorials" that are not specific to one or the other. Some memorials were put up during the war and still stood afterwards, and some were particularly controversial and have been removed or vandalized in the following years.

The large scale attitudes to German history with WWII and to Southern history with the Confederacy are certainly different, but it would be a mistake to also assume that revisionist movements didn't also take root in Germany, or that they had no success. The German version focuses on trying to rehabilitate certain specific figures as being "good nazis" or "not nazis", as well as trying to portray the Wehrmacht as a "clean" organization.

I still speak with people semi-regularly who seem to think that it was the SS who were the "Bad Germans" and that the Wehrmacht were all just ordinary people who weren't associated with the atrocities. Or people who read Albert Speer's autobiographical work and take it at face value, getting the impression he was some kind of apolitical technocratic genius.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,865
Pencils Vania
The idea of commemorating the war dead in some capacity does exist even in Germany. There are little plaques scattered about the place that include the names of dead and missing soldiers from WWII. The most common form I've seen them come in is that they'll be WWI memorials that have WWII names added after the fact, or were designed from the start as "World War Memorials" that are not specific to one or the other. Some memorials were put up during the war and still stood afterwards, and some were particularly controversial and have been removed or vandalized in the following years.

The large scale attitudes to German history with WWII and to Southern history with the Confederacy are certainly different, but it would be a mistake to also assume that revisionist movements didn't also take root in Germany, or that they had no success. The German version focuses on trying to rehabilitate certain specific figures as being "good nazis" or "not nazis", as well as trying to portray the Wehrmacht as a "clean" organization.

I still speak with people semi-regularly who seem to think that it was the SS who were the "Bad Germans" and that the Wehrmacht were all just ordinary people who weren't associated with the atrocities. Or people who read Albert Speer's autobiographical work and take it at face value, getting the impression he was some kind of apolitical technocratic genius.
That is certainly problematic. Thank you for the in depth breakdown and providing some insight.
 

pargonta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
524
North Carolina
The campus is now rid of this nonsense, so hopefully we never hear about it again as it doesn't matter, is my take. but, this hush money is really shady
 

Baji Boxer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,118
America loves to "heal" after shit like that and just forget about it. Laws need to be out into place after Trump is out but we'll just "heal" as a nation and forget about it. It's bullshit.
But we need to "come together" so we can "get things done". Didn't you know that neither side listens to each other?? /s
 

Takuhi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
494
Very weird situation, it's like the UNC admins were so worried about scv idiots coming to campus to stir up shit that they paid them the money just to shut them up, which is the stupidest response imaginable. Literally negotiating with domestic terrorists
It sounds way more nefarious than this. The UNC board that did this is entirely installed by the Republicans in state leadership and seem to be using this to funnel University money towards a white supremacist group that some of them may be affiliated with. The "lawsuit" wasn't even filed until after the board made the deal, and the group that sued them apparently doesn't have any grounds to sue as their claim over the statue would never have survived in court. The board produced this amazingly generous "settlement" within hours of being sued in a case they could easily have won outright, refused to run it by state authorities who generally approve these things (because the Attorney General is a democrat), and slipped the announcement out there the day before Thanksgiving so no one would notice. It is dirty as fuck.
 

Slayven

I don’t know what you’re talking about
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
40,397
It sounds way more nefarious than this. The UNC board that did this is entirely installed by the Republicans in state leadership and seem to be using this to funnel University money towards a white supremacist group that some of them may be affiliated with. The "lawsuit" wasn't even filed until after the board made the deal, and the group that sued them apparently doesn't have any grounds to sue as their claim over the statue would never have survived in court. The board produced this amazingly generous "settlement" within hours of being sued in a case they could easily have won outright, refused to run it by state authorities who generally approve these things (because the Attorney General is a democrat), and slipped the announcement out there the day before Thanksgiving so no one would notice. It is dirty as fuck.
I telling this was a good old boy deal, somebody was getting a kickback or something. The racism was just a cherry on top
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
14,727
I really don't get this.

The confederacy were the losers, they surrendered, they fought to keep slavery and were overall kinda dicks.

It would be like nazi's in Germany getting a grant to build statues of Hitler.
Essentially Andrew Johnson was a racist who was sympathetic to the South after they lost the war. America was never hard enough on the Confederacy like the world was on Germany after WWII.

Sherman didn't burn enough of the South down.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,783
Essentially Andrew Johnson was a racist who was sympathetic to the South after they lost the war. America was never hard enough on the Confederacy like the world was on Germany after WWII.

Sherman didn't burn enough of the South down.
The USA going light on white supremacist terrorists is basically a feature at this point. I was watching Netflix's Greatest Events of WWII in Colour a couple weeks back and was reminded in one of the episodes that the reason most Nazis actually weren't convicted at Nuremberg or faced serious consequences for their actions after the war was due to pressure by the USA (and GB) to let these Nazis off the hook.

and that whole safe haven thing too for Nazis:
WASHINGTON — A secret history of the United States government’s Nazi-hunting operation concludes that American intelligence officials created a “safe haven” in the United States for Nazis and their collaborators after World War II, and it details decades of clashes, often hidden, with other nations over war criminals here and abroad.

The 600-page report, which the Justice Department has tried to keep secret for four years, provides new evidence about more than two dozen of the most notorious Nazi cases of the last three decades.
...

The Justice Department report, describing what it calls “the government’s collaboration with persecutors,” says that O.S.I investigators learned that some of the Nazis “were indeed knowingly granted entry” to the United States, even though government officials were aware of their pasts. “America, which prided itself on being a safe haven for the persecuted, became — in some small measure — a safe haven for persecutors as well,” it said.

The report also documents divisions within the government over the effort and the legal pitfalls in relying on testimony from Holocaust survivors that was decades old. The report also concluded that the number of Nazis who made it into the United States was almost certainly much smaller than 10,000, the figure widely cited by government officials.
America has always been the baddy.
 

pargonta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
524
North Carolina
What? before it was just a (toppled) statue, now the school is paying for a museum

how does it follow that it matters less now?
the decades long issue was that the statue was in a prominent place on the campus of the university. now it is not.

if the statue is housed in a shrine in the backyard of some randoms out in the country, that's fine, technically.

the school funding it's upkeep at the new location is a new issue, somewhat divorced from the campaign to get the statue off campus, which has been solved.
 

Lump

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,134

T. Greg putting in that work exposing all this ignorance and hatred without breaking a sweat.