• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,714
Also, thinking about it, in a way UC4 is designed pretty well for a new player with how it's structured.

Like, there are 2 primarily important side characters in UC4: Sam and Elena. Again, both representing Drake's twin dividing loves of love for adventure and love for....Elena. We spend more time with these characters than any other in the game (sans drake himself, obviously).

But Sam is a totally new character to the franchise. He's as new to new players as he is to returning ones, so much of his interactions with Drake are novel and don't overly rely on past references. Or, no, they do, they reference their past all the time, but it's often to things that Sam and Drake experienced as kids. And we also have actual flashbacks that establish their back and forth. There's a lot of groundwork being made to establish Sam's history, something both new and old players benefit from for different but converging reasons, meaning they are eased into the world at somewhat even pace.

Then we switch over to Elena, but, critically, we do this at the point of Sam's betrayal. The player is meant to have some raw feelings over Sam having lied, which makes Elena coming in to the rescue a perfect point of tension relief, where they repair their relationship, and both new player and old players are falling in love with Elena because she's providing some very wholesome and heartfelt emotional beats. Also, this is halfway point in the game, and if a new player is still playing the game here, then chances are they're hooked enough that Elena's past history with Drake won't be so alienating as to turn them off.

So, yeah, I think newcomers are relatively set to enjoy UC4, even if they'd get more out of it if they have the experience of the old games.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
Honestly, this conversation is going in circles, I know how these go with you.

So I'm just going to say "nah" and stop đź‘Ť
Boiling down UC4 to "Nate's a dude who found three treasures" is such a disservice to so many purposeful narrative direction decisions made during UC4. I genuinely recommend refreshing your memory as to what was talked about during the development diaries.

Also, thinking about it, in a way UC4 is designed pretty well for a new player with how it's structured.

Like, there are 2 primarily important side characters in UC4: Sam and Elena. Again, both representing Drake's twin dividing loves of love for adventure and love for....Elena. We spend more time with these characters than any other in the game (sans drake himself, obviously).

But Sam is a totally new character to the franchise. He's as new to new players as he is to returning ones, so much of his interactions with Drake are novel and don't overly rely on past references. Or, no, they do, they reference their past all the time, but it's often to things that Sam and Drake experienced as kids. And we also have actual flashbacks that establish their back and forth. There's a lot of groundwork being made to establish Sam's history, something both new and old players benefit from for different but converging reasons, meaning they are eased into the world at somewhat even pace.

Then we switch over to Elena, but, critically, we do this at the point of Sam's betrayal. The player is meant to have some raw feelings over Sam having lied, which makes Elena coming in to the rescue a perfect point of tension relief, where they repair their relationship, and both new player and old players are falling in love with Elena because she's providing some very wholesome and heartfelt emotional beats. Also, this is halfway point in the game, and if a new player is still playing the game here, then chances are they're hooked enough that Elena's past history with Drake won't be so alienating as to turn them off.

So, yeah, I think newcomers are relatively set to enjoy UC4, even if they'd get more out of it if they have the experience of the old games.
Sam is honestly the worst part of UC4 because he's sort of a giant glaring walking retcon voiced by Troy Baker and the game has to spend two different flashbacks establishing him and the game. But that's a whole different discussion.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,714
See previous post before my last one.

Stop making a fight over an entirely hypothetical player if you can't even prove they even exist.

Sam is honestly the worst part of UC4 because he's sort of a giant glaring walking retcon voiced by Troy Baker and the game has to spend two different flashbacks establishing him and the game. But that's a whole different discussion.
That has absolute fuck all to do with the point being made lol
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
See previous post before my last one.

Stop making a fight over an entirely hypothetical player if you can't even prove they even exist.
I mean I'm just pointing out ND's intent with the game. It is not at all a bad idea to tell people that the game's story needs the context of the other games. Because it does. The writers thought made it that way. Their intent. Not mine. 🤷‍♂️
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,735
I got it on PS5 cheap, but I might be down to pick this up later on sale. I am curious how my PC would handle it, given I think it only runs at 1440p on console anyway? (In performance mode)
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,714
I mean I'm just pointing out ND's intent with the game. It is not at all a bad idea to tell people that the game's story needs the context of the other games. Because it does. The writers thought made it that way. Their intent. Not mine. 🤷‍♂️
No, you're in the argument hole headspace where there's no point to winning the debate, but you're nevertheless determined to win it.

Again, the player you're speaking of is, as far as you know, hypothetical. And, despite the 'see above' you posted, taht actually didn't answer the question I posed to you - To what PRECISE degree will the narrative beats not hit "as hard as intended" and what is your evidence that they will his sufficiently weakly enough that a player will not enjoy UC4 well enough because of it? And if what you say is true, why do we have no threads of people complaining about the issue you specify?

I think you know that you're arguing for a completely hypothetical scenerio that makes sense in your head, but you have no actual proof it's occurring, or occurring in significant amount of quantities to be a problem. If this was an actual problem that really existed, you'd be using that proof instead of trying to win the argument on the principle of developers intent (as if that's ever mattered in the real world).
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
No, you're in the argument hole headspace where there's no point to winning the debate, but you're nevertheless determined to win it.

Again, the player you're speaking of is, as far as you know, hypothetical. And, despite the 'see above' you posted, taht actually didn't answer the question I posed to you - To what PRECISE degree will the narrative beats not hit "as hard as intended" and what is your evidence that they will his sufficiently weakly enough that a player will not enjoy UC4 well enough because of it? And if what you say is true, why do we have no threads of people complaining about the issue you specify?

I think you know that you're arguing for a completely hypothetical scenerio that makes sense in your head, but you have no actual proof it's occurring, or occurring in significant amount of quantities to be a problem. If this was an actual problem that really existed, you'd be using that proof instead of trying to win the argument on the principle of developers intent (as if that's ever mattered in the real world).
Uncharted 4 is such a by the books screenwriting 101 example of concluding a long running story that I can't believe you're genuinely entertaining the argument that it's not inherently a better experience when you have the context of the other games.
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,706
Sure, and we agree on that, but whats "as hard" amount to? If having played UC1-3 and then 4 as it came out is counts as 100% effective, then what if you played UC1-3 recently so that it's not nostalgic for you, 95%? 90%?

And if you haven't played UC1-3 at all, then what is the effectiveness here? 75%? 50%? 10%

And, most critically, at what point is it so ineffective that players are unable to enjoy the story to a reasonable degree?


The reason I'm being flippant here is that no one is denying that playing UC1-3 aids in enjoying UC4. No shit. But I feel the game is designed in such a way that it equips new players enough that so that they enjoy UC4 enough. And presumably, they've successfully executed that design because I don't see any threads that to "I wasn't able to enjoy UC4 because I had no attachment to the events referenced"

So, if you want to argue that the emotional beats are not landing "hard as they're intended to", then I need some evidence here. How hard, exactly, are they meant to land, and how far short are players falling? And, additionally, if this is a significant problem, then what is the explanation for the lack of players voicing this issue? And if it's NOT a significant issue, then why are we arguing about a hypothetical issue that, as far as we have evidence for, doesn't exist?
Yeah. Agree here.
And I think the writers understand this. These games standalone just fine as single entries. Almost any piece of media with a story told over multiple entries will make reference to previous entries.
But with any growing franchise, this is pretty normal that new entrants will not have played or watched the first games.

Uncharted 4 still works just fine as a relatively contained story. Players can understand that they might not know the full intention of every scene and still enjoy it.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,714
Uncharted 4 is such a by the books screenwriting 101 example of concluding a long running story that I can't believe you're genuinely entertaining the argument that it's not inherently a better experience when you have the context of the other games.
At this point, you're just having difficulty with reading comprehension.
Sure, and we agree on that
The "that" in this case being that the story is more effective if you have played the past games before. I said this multiple times. Even in that same post...

The reason I'm being flippant here is that no one is denying that playing UC1-3 aids in enjoying UC4. No shit.

As I said, you're in the wrong headspace for this right now. Get some rest.
 

FellowTarnished

Alt account
Banned
Mar 8, 2022
3,240
Hope we're in for a God of War and not a Horizon: Zero Dawn at launch.

I just finished Horizon on PC and it was fantastic for the most part, bar some audio issues. I'm glad I waited for it to be fixed as I heard it was really rough at release. I originally played it on PS4 and quit after a couple of hours because 30fps + controller just felt awful to me. Whereas 120fps + KBM was incredible, the game really came alive on PC.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
At this point, you're just having difficulty with reading comprehension.

The "that" in this case being that the story is more effective if you have played the past games before. I said this multiple times. Even in that same post...
If you're wondering to what degree I fed that UC4 as a narrative wouldn't hit as far as first time experience goes, I think they hit very well at all. In general I don't think UC4's beats very hard in the first place let alone without the context of what came prior. If anything I wish they were just selling Lost Legacy because not only would I recommend that I'd buy just that
 

Pariah

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,945
You're just reinforcing my point further, those first 7 chapters felt like such a slog that the rest of the game flew by in comparison.
That's your opinion so I won't get into it. However it's clear by number of chapter or playtime that Scotland is part of the first half of the game. I thought perhaps you were misremembering, as you just wrote that it picked up for you at Scotland while also criticizing the part of the game where those chapters take place.

I might be getting nitpicky, but if the problem lies with the first seven chapters, that's the opening third of the game, not the first half.
 

daninthemix

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,026
Hope we're in for a God of War and not a Horizon: Zero Dawn at launch.
I played Horizon Zero Dawn a few patches after launch and it was a flawless 4k60 experience. Then later on I played it again with DLSS and it was even better.

So even if they didn't nail the launch of that, their first game, Days Gone and God of War were both completely flawless for me from release day.

This demonstrates

a) they are improving
b) they are taking these ports seriously
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,714
If you're wondering to what degree I fed that UC4 as a narrative wouldn't hit as far as first time experience goes
No, I am not asking what you think you'd personally feel. I'm asking what degree the general gaming public wouldn't get hit as hard. Like, it's not about you, it's about the population.

Because statistically speaking, some portion of players played UC4 as their first game. And if a large portion of the players feel as disconnected to the narrative as you describe they would be, why have we not seen a significant amount of threads of people complaining about this issue? Because I've never seen one.

There's a real absence of evidence in your argument. If you're argument is correct, then why is no one saying anything?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
No, I am not asking what you think you'd personally feel. I'm asking what degree the general gaming public wouldn't get hit as hard. Like, it's not about you, it's about the population.
I suppose the best analogy would be that if UC4 was the first game in a series it's narrative would be as well received as the order 1886. It's not a groundbreaking narrative we're talking about here. It's a super standard pulp adventure.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,714
I suppose the best analogy would be that if UC4 was the first game in a series it's narrative would be as well received as the order 1886. It's not a groundbreaking narrative we're talking about here. It's a super standard pulp adventure.
And where can we prove this?

Do you have any data that says this is what players who played UC4 first thought?
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,546
I mean, yeah. If you haven't played the other games this one loses most of its impact.

Weeeeell, I'd argue it actually works out better since a) you don't repeat the exact character arc Nate already went through in U3 and b) you won't have to suspend your disbelief to accept a previously unnamed brother appearing out of thin air.
 

Hoggle

Member
Mar 25, 2021
6,116
Weeeeell, I'd argue it actually works out better since a) you don't repeat the exact character arc Nate already went through in U3 and b) you won't have to suspend your disbelief to accept a previously unnamed brother appearing out of thin air.

See, I never understood the unmentioned brother argument. There's exactly one instance in the first three games where that information would have made sense to mention, and that's when Marlowe was trying to get into Nate's head. Otherwise it's not really something you'd bring up mid adventure to a girl you've just met or an age old friend that already knows about your brother.

I only found out one of my friends siblings died the other day and I've known her for years. It's not really something you just bring up.
 

Rated-G

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,340
Weeeeell, I'd argue it actually works out better since a) you don't repeat the exact character arc Nate already went through in U3 and b) you won't have to suspend your disbelief to accept a previously unnamed brother appearing out of thin air.

I don't know, it feels like more of a continuation and follow through of the arc from 3 where the shoe is on the other foot, it loses a bit of impact from the third act if you haven't at least played 3.

Maybe I'm desensitized from decades of reading pulp, and one of my own friends suddenly revealing they had a sister after 20 years of friendship, but the long lost sibling thing didn't require much suspension of disbelief, definitely ymmv.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,681
The Milky Way
That's your opinion so I won't get into it. However it's clear by number of chapter or playtime that Scotland is part of the first half of the game. I thought perhaps you were misremembering, as you just wrote that it picked up for you at Scotland while also criticizing the part of the game where those chapters take place.

I might be getting nitpicky, but if the problem lies with the first seven chapters, that's the opening third of the game, not the first half.
That's assuming all chapters are of equal length I guess!

But yeah it's just telling that after these years since release I still remember just how utterly bored I was through those first 7 chapters, and how close I was to just dropping the game altogether, especially after the disappointment of UC3. And that's stuck in my mind more than the fun I'm pretty sure I had with the rest of the game.

I may grab this collection to revisit the games though, I may feel differently now. As long as it's reasonably priced of course.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,714
That's assuming all chapters are of equal length I guess!

But yeah it's just telling that after these years since release I still remember just how utterly bored I was through those first 7 chapters, and how close I was to just dropping the game altogether, especially after the disappointment of UC3. And that's stuck in my mind more than the fun I'm pretty sure I had with the rest of the game.

I may grab this collection to revisit the games though, I may feel differently now. As long as it's reasonably priced of course.
So, I can't fully remember my issues with UC4 when I first played it, though I think my issue was more with the downtime in the latter half than the first half.

But when I replayed UC4 when the collection came out for PS5, I basically didn't feel like any part of it dragged. Which is similar to how I felt about TLoU2 - some parts dragged, but then on second playthrough they all felt good.

I'm starting to think that Druckmann just writers in such a way that the pacing of the game makes sense only if you played through it once and know whats coming. That's just my personal experience.
 

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
So, I can't fully remember my issues with UC4 when I first played it, though I think my issue was more with the downtime in the latter half than the first half.

But when I replayed UC4 when the collection came out for PS5, I basically didn't feel like any part of it dragged. Which is similar to how I felt about TLoU2 - some parts dragged, but then on second playthrough they all felt good.

I'm starting to think that Druckmann just writers in such a way that the pacing of the game makes sense only if you played through it once and know whats coming. That's just my personal experience.
I think people's experiences with U4 were coming right off U3 and it's hyperspeed pacing, and it took a while to soak in in the slower pace story 4 was telling.

And it's not that slow, definitely at the beginning where it sets up a lot of stuff, but once the game starts rolling in Italy (which by the way, people don't remember much, yet it's one of the best levels in the series IMO) it never stops up until the last chapters, where it's needed for character development and even highlights the awkwardness of the situation Nate and Elena are in.

Man, I love U4 so much. Druckmann (and Straley too!) proved with it, U2 and the two TLOU that they understand what the story needs so perfectly IMO.
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,034
NYC
will be a joy to replay UC4 on a steam deck. haven't played it since launch

just played TLL last year and my god is that a perfect 10/10 game
 

EroticSushi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,988
Has there been any word on why the first 3 haven't been ported over yet? Is it a case of the original games having bad old code or something of the sorts?

Really seems odd for them to release the final 2 parts of the franchise first. You would think they would want the first 3 on there with it for those completely new to Uncharted.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,586
I've already played 1-3 but that was ages ago, so I'd prefer to replay them before starting 4. I think I'll hold out and hope for a Nathan Drake Collection.
 

quail_lad

Member
Aug 3, 2021
799
Don't know if someone else has suggested this, but I wonder if they were already working on the ps5 collection and decided they might as well port it to pc. I always assumed the pc port was the primary motivation, but if the ps5 was instead then that might explain why they haven't ported 1-3.
 

TheRed

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,658
Very excited for this.
Actually gonna be playing through 1-3 for the first time before this releases and then I get to enjoy these two games at high fps and with gyro aim, it will be a top tier way to cap it off. Also hopefully by then I can get my steam deck which will be a cool experience too.
 

Wiggle

Member
Nov 25, 2019
377
At the very least, this looks likely since the leaked date at the Epic store is so close.
You still think the game will release on the Epic date? Isn't that really close? I mean, usually companies like to have pre-orders open for a while before the release, not a week and a half. Either way, hoping it comes out soon.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,112
Pakistan
You still think the game will release on the Epic date? Isn't that really close? I mean, usually companies like to have pre-orders open for a while before the release, not a week and a half. Either way, hoping it comes out soon.
Typically yes, but since its only the 4th UC and it was something that dated close to the UC movie for console, now that its been several months since the movie came out and people maybe not too excited about just the 4th part and an expansion-ish game coming, they might wanna release it asap to get some sales off it.
I'm confused, the release date is in the thread title.
The 'date' is not official :P

It was a leak and removed shortly after.