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United States, Austria and Japan are against the UN project of banning the content of minors in anime/manga

Kuma Bear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,906
Japan
I'm all for banning this stuff. In Tokyo it's strange how open this is. There is one shop in Akihabara in particular which has a hentai image of an underaged child naked right next to the entrance but her groin and chest is blurred. Nothing is really left to imagination though, it's bizarre how it's just there in full view of the public.
 

Annatar86

Member
Jan 16, 2018
132
I mean, I'm not sure if the show explicitly states otherwise but when Daenerys is sold off to Drogo and is subsequently raped she is 13. Would that make GoT Season 1 illegal? Conversely would porn featuring adults that look like teens be illegal? I don't quite understand where the line is drawn, if at all
 

Flygon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
141
I mean, I'm not sure if the show explicitly states otherwise but when Daenerys is sold off to Drogo and is subsequently raped she is 13. Would that make GoT Season 1 illegal? Conversely would porn featuring adults that look like teens be illegal? I don't quite understand where the line is drawn, if at all
I imagine there's an amount of context, and deciding on a case-by-case.

Drawn underage pornography is illegal in Australia, but the Kirikou films have aired openly on TV during late afternoon/early evenings.
Never minding the stuff we've produced locally that'd be unairable in the US as children's television.

It's an unsatisfying answer, but the short story is: It depends.
 

Deleted member 888

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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I mean, I'm not sure if the show explicitly states otherwise but when Daenerys is sold off to Drogo and is subsequently raped she is 13. Would that make GoT Season 1 illegal? Conversely would porn featuring adults that look like teens be illegal? I don't quite understand where the line is drawn, if at all
I think there is a massive difference between a film or tv show handling something like that as tastefully and serious as you can, often framed not in a positive way (and usually without any explicit nudity) or something like Bart being naked for comical effect (I can't believe someone posted that in here).

Then what is usually in anime which is 13-year-olds or something in school getting graphically fucked, raped, pissed on or exploited in some other way, with the intent to titillate and arouse the viewer.

The absolute state of some of the posts we get in these kinds of topics.
 

Annatar86

Member
Jan 16, 2018
132
I think there is a massive difference between a film or tv show handling something like that as tastefully and serious as you can, often framed not in a positive way (and usually without any explicit nudity) or something like Bart being naked for comical effect (I can't believe someone posted that in here).

Then what is usually in anime which is 13-year-olds or something in school getting graphically fucked, raped, pissed on or exploited in some other way, with the intent to titillate and arouse the viewer.

The absolute state of some of the posts we get in these kinds of topics.
That's why I am asking where the line is drawn. While laws can be interpreted, more often than not, especially when they are new, are applied to everything that remotely fits the definition.

I totally understand why it is being proposed, that was not part of the question.

Even the new copyright laws that passed in Europe might have had good (for someone) reasons to be proposed, but the execution and the actual law that was passed is complete rubbish, sorry if I am concerned that this might turn up into as much of a mess and suddenly a slew of relevant art is banned.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
883
All of the countries that rejected it are ridiculously conservative. No suprise to me.
 

The BLJ

Member
Feb 2, 2019
286
France
Go ahead, let it burn. I don't even care if it means the Simpsons movie stops being distributed, or all your favorite animes become illegal to watch. I'll be happy if any kind of pornography gets thrown into a buning trash heap, but even better if said pornography depicts children.
I'm also really curious to see what would Japan do if such a ban were demanded.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,766
Am I stupid or won't they just get around this by always stating the characters' ages as 18+ or 1,000 or "unknown," regardless of how they are drawn?

That's how the localizers do it.
 

DrainedSpirit

Member
Mar 25, 2019
176
User banned (1 month): defending the sexualization of minors
Are people afraid of lolicon-stuff being a gateway-drug to actually living out pedo-tendencies and hurt kids? I tend to think as long as no kids are hurt I don't see the harm (although incredibly creepy) but feel free to explain why I'm wrong.
 

Deleted member 888

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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Are people afraid of lolicon-stuff being a gateway-drug to actually living out pedo-tendencies and hurt kids? I tend to think as long as no kids are hurt I don't see the harm (although incredibly creepy) but feel free to explain why I'm wrong.
Watch this and you'll see how zero tolerance is necessary for paedophiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Place_for_Paedophiles

I mean, you can go deep diving through scholarly articles, reports and psychological papers if you want, but most people only have the attention span for a TV show or movie.

The tldr is always normalizing the sexualisation of or concepts of sexualizing children. Anime/manga also has a massive obsession with rape or normalizing resistance to sex, so you couple that with children/minors and yeah, great fucking show all round.
 

Arebours

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,705
People drawing and reading cartoon cp can burn in hell but I don't think such content should be made illegal. To me, regulating what I am allowed to draw on a piece of paper is dangerously close to thought crime. Banning the sale of such content seems much more reasonable though toothless in the age of internet.
 

Code Artisan

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
805
User Banned (Permanent): Excusing the Sexualized Depiction of Minors; History of severe infractions.
Thank God, USA has the first. Why do the westerners want to enforce their morals on the rest of the World this hard? Like it is some kind of holy spirit falling from the sky that every human shall receive. Pentecost is a fabrication and Luther was no god or angel. Never forget that.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
6,134
Friendly reminder after the last similar thread that little to no research ahs been done on the connection between art and encouraging peadophilia. However the few studies actually done on pictures of real kids encouraging peadophilia show a definite correlation between the two.

I mean, I'm not sure if the show explicitly states otherwise but when Daenerys is sold off to Drogo and is subsequently raped she is 13. Would that make GoT Season 1 illegal? Conversely would porn featuring adults that look like teens be illegal? I don't quite understand where the line is drawn, if at all
They aged most of the characters up in the show (Jon is meant to be 14, Joffrey 12, etc..).

Though for the record I find the graphic nature of the books description of her rapes weirdly unecessary.
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
3,572
Thailand
I mean, I'm not sure if the show explicitly states otherwise but when Daenerys is sold off to Drogo and is subsequently raped she is 13. Would that make GoT Season 1 illegal? Conversely would porn featuring adults that look like teens be illegal? I don't quite understand where the line is drawn, if at all
All kids in the book get aged up in the series.
Daenerys was 16 when the show starts.
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,552
My opinion on this is that there is a lot of anime/hentai that should be Banned but the way this law was written made it seem like a lot of anime that doesn't really need to be ban would get banned, they should have been more specific with this law and ban all form of rape and molestation shown in media, a lot of porn currently fetishises rape and incest and that needs to stop
 
Nov 9, 2017
1,786
I applaud Sony and Valve for somewhat taking a stand on this by their own actions. Most loli stuff I have seen is disgusting even if it isn't full nudity.
All this being said, I have to admit I enjoy Tatsumaki from One-Punch Man. I don't think she is problematic, but I am sure others do. It's a tricky problem.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,150
Thank God, USA has the first. Why do the westerners want to enforce their morals on the rest of the World this hard? Like it is some kind of holy spirit falling from the sky that every human shall receive. Pentecost is a fabrication and Luther was no god or angel. Never forget that.
Is this really the hill you're gonna die on?
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
13,079
I applaud Sony and Valve for somewhat taking a stand on this by their own actions. Most loli stuff I have seen is disgusting even if it isn't full nudity.
All this being said, I have to admit I enjoy Tatsumaki from One-Punch Man. I don't think she is problematic, but I am sure others do. It's a tricky problem.
There are adult women with bodies like Tatsumaki but it's hard to not get the feeling that they are playing up the "lol she looks like a little girl!" angle.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
814
Reading their responses-the gist is that unless the fictional drawings are unmistakably minors depicted in sexual situations it isn't worth making it a violation and as such CP.
Especially when we get into odd territories such as art styles, intent, etc. (CSA survivors for instance make closure with their abuse by talking/drawing about it and moving on.)
On top of that you have a decent amount of people who are against this measure on the basis that the time, money, and energy spent prosecuting people making cartoon porn is significantly better spent going after individuals and organizations who prey upon, kidnap, abuse, rape, and distribute said activities of REAL kids online.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
My stance is that people are huge fucking creepos for being into that kinda shit, but at the end of the day, I don't think they should be jailed for it since actual children aren't involved. Though, if a law were passed that made it illegal, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

It would be interesting if the law was passed since it would affect way more than people expect. Shit like Evangelion would technically be illegal.
Basically my feelings as well.

It's just too close to thought policing in my book. Saying "because this harmless thing might lead to an actually harmful thing, it needs to be illegal" is a crazy slippery slope, and I say this while fully believing that loli shit is 100% gross and awful.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,248
az
Technically they still do. The last volume of Kairakuten (Wani Magazine) to be sold in convenience stores started distribution last Wednesday and can be found in 7-11s and other convenience stores.

Whether or not you will find it, though? YMMV. It's essentially a collector's issue as a result.

Tomorrow's volume of HotMilk (Core Magazine) will not be found in convenience stores.
Aren't all those magazine still sold in bookstores though? Does it matter if they're sold in convenience stores or not? Or is it them not being in convenience stores hurts sales?
 

JCG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,035
As far as I can tell, this is a non-binding United Nations instrument. In other words, the approval of this proposal alone can't change the internal regulations, laws or jurisprudence of any particular country. That would be an extra step. The document itself only urges or calls for action and makes recommendations.
 

Working yet?

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,095
Their rationale might be related to video games, for instance. In a game you might slice a realistic looking person's neck open. Or shoot a pedestrian walking down the street. Though, even then, depending on the content and context, some of these games could be *restricted* as well (that game about the 'shooter'). I'm interested to see how fiction and real life will be contrasted as technology improves.
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,216
Longview
Some of you are disgustingly dense. Child porn is Child porn is Child Porn. Hentai that shows a little kid getting fucked is Child Porn and if you get off to it you're a pedophile and it's fucking obviously normalizing it and a problem. It should be banned full stop.

It doesn't matter if it's CGI or Hand drawn, 3D or 2D. What's next, some sick fuck is going to use Deepfakes to make this crap and you're going to claim artistic protection under the 1st amendment? Like holy shit, it's fucking child porn and it's for pedophiles to get off to and think it's okay. You don't fucking understand normalization at all if you think it doesn't normalize it and this shit's mere existence puts children at risk of predators.

If you like loli shit, you're a pedophile full stop and you participate in spreading child porn.
 

Deleted member 888

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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
My opinion on this is that there is a lot of anime/hentai that should be Banned but the way this law was written made it seem like a lot of anime that doesn't really need to be ban would get banned, they should have been more specific with this law and ban all form of rape and molestation shown in media, a lot of porn currently fetishises rape and incest and that needs to stop
That bridge could be crossed if that bridge ever looks like happening/does happen.

It's quite clear the majority of people want to tackle the blatant cases of child/minor depictions and graphic sex/sexualisation. Not ban illustrations of Bart Simpsons ass/penis, all teen romance or even something contextually artistic such as the Nirvana Nevermind cover.

For some posters in here arguing as if all anime (and fanservice) is now going to get banned must be doing so in bad faith. As I said above another big issue that makes anime/hentai stand out is a considerable amount of it is based around rape/resistance/violence, so when you mix that with depictions of minors it is even worse.

You show a random person on the street computer generated images/videos of what look like young school girls getting raped and what do you think they will say? Then ask yourself is it the ordinary everyday people who are out of touch or the ones jacking off to computer generated depictions of minors?
 
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alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,552
That bridge could be crossed if that bridge ever looks like happening/does happen.

It's quite clear the majority of people want to tackle the blatant cases of child/minor depictions and graphic sex/sexualisation. Not ban illustrations of Bart Simpsons ass/penis, all teen romance or even something contextually artistic such as the Nirvana Nevermind cover.

For some posters in here arguing as if all anime is now going to get banned must be doing so in bad faith.
I agree, I'm just a little afraid of lawmakers going overboard on things like they usually do but these things need to happen, we can't have blatant depiction of child molestation and rape on the internet, it doesn't take much for some young impressionable 13 year old to find it and get messed up for life
 

Deleted member 888

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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I agree, I'm just a little afraid of lawmakers going overboard on things like they usually do but these things need to happen, we can't have blatant depiction of child molestation and rape on the internet, it doesn't take much for some young impressionable 13 year old to find it and get messed up for life
There's no way they'd get that far as fanservice is mainstream in damn near every single anime. The porn industry is legal from 18, so as long as anime/hentai can convincingly portray 18+ for graphic sex, it'll just remain in the background as a kink for a minority.

All stuff with teens across all mediums is largely handled on a case by case basis. Is it tasteful? Is it possibly a depiction of something horrific but contextual to the work and at least not graphic in a way that breaks laws?

I mean there will be a lot of movies out there with themes of or topics around paedophilia, but that doesn't mean they actually show graphic scenes. It'll be age appropriate adult content that has to pass through ratings boards too. Even just think CSI episodes if there is a killer/rapist of children. Hentai/anime isn't rated or looked at, everything fucked up from Japan or elsewhere can simply be accessed or imported.

It's quite clear most of this topic are referring to the graphic nature of the content of the discussion in here. As creepy as something like Persona can be at times, no one is taking away Resetera's Persona 5 re-release. No one is censoring The Simpsons.
 
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TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
Are people afraid of lolicon-stuff being a gateway-drug to actually living out pedo-tendencies and hurt kids? I tend to think as long as no kids are hurt I don't see the harm (although incredibly creepy) but feel free to explain why I'm wrong.
lol... this site can be very one-sided on this issue. What is the point of threads like these if one will get banned for just this post?
 

Osa15

Member
Nov 13, 2017
638
Mods are ready to hit the ban hammer in this thread. I have to be careful what I say before I get jumped for speaking my thought.

For me, when you look at all the problems in this world, from the abortions laws here in the United States and systematic racism to children starving in developing countries, this issue seems as important so we need to give it as much attention to it especially since it has Japan and anime in its headlines. United States, Austria and Japan needs to know that this is 1000% not okay. We can’t have artists trying to express themselves in this manner ffs. We need to restrict them more.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
User banned (permanent): inflammatory comparisons, prior severe infractions
You show a random person on the street computer generated images/videos of what look like young school girls getting raped and what do you think they will say? Then ask yourself is it the ordinary everyday people who are out of touch or the ones jacking off to computer generated depictions of minors?
I wouldn't use "ordinary everyday people" as a standard... If you go back enough, most would tell you Black people shouldn't be equal to the White man...

Just... no. Its a stupid thing to use.
 

Sean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,216
Longview
I wouldn't use "ordinary everyday people" as a standard... If you go back enough, most would tell you Black people shouldn't be equal to the White man...

Just... no. Its a stupid thing to use.
Did you really fucking try to equate racism with a defense for jacking off to children?

Fuck weeb pedophiles are the worst.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
Did you really fucking try to equate racism with a defense for jacking off to children?

Fuck weeb pedophiles are the worst.
Its the same base logic, "ordinary people" shouldn't be used as a standard at all. Dislike my comparison all you like, pick any other topic where the layman aren't exactly great on and it will still come up short for a standard.

Many things were "wrong" to people if you go back enough, so using it over something scientific is terrible.
 

Mewshuji

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,534
With Japan at the very least it's trying to front it cares I guess. I think even people who don't think loli hentai should be banned can agree drawn, sexualized depictions of real minors is fucked up and should be. Or, well, I hope. Then again people defend Shadman so... :/

Idk what's up with Austria and US though
 
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tadaima

Member
Oct 30, 2017
876
Tokyo, Japan
Aren't all those magazine still sold in bookstores though? Does it matter if they're sold in convenience stores or not? Or is it them not being in convenience stores hurts sales?
You're exactly right, but the point is that you must now go out of your way to find the magazines. You won't stumble upon them mistakenly and there is less of an impulse to purchase the magazine.

Obviously that will have a negative impact upon sales of physical copies.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I wouldn't use "ordinary everyday people" as a standard... If you go back enough, most would tell you Black people shouldn't be equal to the White man...

Just... no. Its a stupid thing to use.
Cmon.

It was an illustrative point of how you take some of the shit online/in manga/in anime right now and show it to random passers by on a street and see what kind of response you get.

I don't think you're going to get many responses of "But it's not real children/minors/under-agers".