University TA ‘Censured’ After Playing A Clip From A Debate About Transgender Pronouns

[Johnny Cage itS]

University TA 'Censured' After Playing A Clip From A Debate About Transgender Pronouns

When teaching assistant Lindsay Shepherd played a 3-minute clip from a television show regarding the use of gender pronouns, she likely didn't expect she'd be the subject of an official inquiry — but that's exactly what happened.

On November 1, Shepherd, who teaches a "language use and writing skills component" tutorial for a larger communications class at Wilfrid Laurier University in Ontario, Canada, played a clip in which University of Toronto professor, Jordan Peterson, debates Nicholas Matte over gender pronouns on the Canadian TV show, "The Agenda."

In the clip, Peterson argues against what he calls "compelled speech" regarding transgender pronouns like "zir" and "xe."

According to Shepherd, she took a completely neutral stance, neither condemning nor applauding Peterson's position. However, one or more of her approximately 48 students filed a complaint with the school. As a result, Shepherd was censured, and brought in for a meeting with course professor, Dr. Nathan Rambukkana, Dr. Herbert Pimlott, and Adria Joel, Acting Manager of Gendered Violence and Sexual Assault Prevention and Support at the Diversity and Equity Office.

The meeting, which took place on November 8, was secretly recorded. Provided below is the transcript of the recording as well as the audio:

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The article has the transcript as well as the recorded audio.

It's a bit chilling listening to the transcript; as three members of the staff of the uni. from the Professor to coordinator dog pile on the TA, grad student and compare the professor of another Ontario university to Hitler amongst lots of other crazy hyperboles, including parallels of Alt-Right, Nazis and what's his face??... Richard Spencer.


Here is the programming she showed in her class that got her in hot water.. She showed a 3 minute clip from this 55 minute video... The part where Jordan Peterson and Nicholas Matte debating use of the pronouns "They"

Since the recording has gone public and viral, President of Wilfrid Laurier has issued an apology.

Highly recommend watching the Global News interview of Lindsay at the very bottom of the first link up top.

Open Letter ( kinda apologizing to Lindsay?!?) by her program director, supervisor who called her to the meeting.


Bonus: Rex Murphy's take on the matter.

Here's the entire audio recording. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YdFlKaJv4g&t=44s

ALSO MORE RELATED GOOD READS IN THIS LINK:

If this is the first time you're hearing about Jordan Peterson, He's a Canadian clinical psychologist, cultural critic, and professor of psychology, that does lots of interviews on Youtube/Podcasts. these days.

 

[KazuchikaOkada]

Modern day colleges, everybody.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Jordan Peterson is poison at this point.

 

[Hat22]

Jordan Peterson is poison at this point.

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Equating him to Hitler is just being ridiculous.

He's just an academic that wants free speech.. and to sell you stuff.

 

[Tukarrs]

I don't think it's unreasonable for a teaching-assistant to get the approval from the professor regarding the professor's class.

I mean the professor should have ultimate control over course materials, right?

 

[Bakercat]

As long as she isn't using it to spread hate or intolerance then it's acceptable. Sometimes you have to see the other side and what they're doing to either, form your own opinion, or to know what your opponent is gonna bring to the table when you get to the real world and have to defend your words. I'm all for tolerance and feeling safe in places, but sometimes you gotta learn what people think out there to know how to handle situations that arise. Also, fuck these cunt professors for dogpilling her.

 

[trembli0s]

Absolutely insane.

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

I don't think it's unreasonable for a teaching-assistant to get the approval from the professor regarding the professor's class.

I mean the professor should have ultimate control over course materials, right?

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She was only brought in for "inquiry" after a student (or students, as it is unclear who and how many complained) complained to the dean/prof... So I am not sure what the profs role in all this is , except to chastise her on why she cannot play the news clip or any more content from Peterson during her teachings.

 

[Jazz]

Personally I have no problem with her showing it, considering she didn't say whether she agreed with him or not, so I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely would have had a problem if she had expressed that she agreed with it.

 

[Mona]

these students are not children, its insane to think that they need to be shielded from the the mere acknowledgment that these ideas exist

 

[Fulminator]

Personally I have no problem with her showing it, considering she didn't say whether she agreed with him or not, so I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely would have had a problem if she had expressed that she agreed with it.

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i agree with this p much

 

[Slayven]

As long as she isn't using it to spread hate or intolerance then it's acceptable. Sometimes you have to see the other side and what they're doing to either, form your own opinion, or to know what your opponent is gonna bring to the table when you get to the real world and have to defend your words. I'm all for tolerance and feeling safe in places, but sometimes you gotta learn what people think out there to know how to handle situations that arise. Also, fuck these cunt professors for dogpilling her.

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How come this only ever applies to margalized people being expose to hate?

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

It's worth to note that the news clip shown; was from a TVO show called The Agenda, (which is a tame, calm, point counterpoint discussion show) TVO, for you non Canadians is a publicly funded Canadian television station.

 

[mac]

How come this only ever applies to margalized people being expose to hate?

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It doesn't?

 

[Caz]

Equating him to Hitler is just being ridiculous.

He's just an academic that wants free speech.. and to sell you stuff.

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Free Speech Champion Jordan Peterson Just Wants A Website Targetting Academics He Dislikes & Wants Them Removed. For Freedom: https://pressprogress.ca/university...n-is-planning-a-targeted-harassment-campaign/

This TA knew exactly what she was doing when she brought in Jordan Peterson's woefully misinformed understanding of C-16 and got exactly what she deserved. She wasn't censured: She was called out for making an egregious error and got exactly what she deserved for "presenting both sides".

Am I supposed to comfort them and make sure that they're insulated away from this? Like is that what the point of this is? Because to me, that is so against what a university is about. So against it. I was not taking sides; I was presenting both arguments.

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Presenting Jordan Peterson's viewpoint without any commentary about how he misrepresents C-16, among the other subjects Peterson has butchered, is taking a side, full stop. You'll forgive me if i'm unsympathetic towards her being chewed out for using that clip, as if her students weren't aware that people like Jordan didn't exist.

 

[Chamaeleonx]

Personally I have no problem with her showing it, considering she didn't say whether she agreed with him or not, so I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely would have had a problem if she had expressed that she agreed with it.

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Edit: I don't think I can actually judge this fairly as I am not a native English speaker. Therefore I edited my original comment.

 

[coldzone24]

What would have been the problem with her agreeing with it as long as her arguments weren't rooted in transphobia? I don't know what Jordan Peterson's arguments against that language were (or who he is), but I feel like not agreeing with the use of those words isn't automatically problematic.

Of course since she didn't even express any feelings one way or the other and was just showing a clip, there is no reason to be upset about this.

Edit: Okay so after some quick research it looks like this Jordan Peterson is actually kind of jerk.

 

[Deleted member 1120]

Modern day colleges, everybody.

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You say that like this is a problem at every single college.

 

[PanickyFool]

Wow. Thanks for giving the asshole right evidence.

 

['3y Kingdom]

Poor judgment on the TA's part, at best. She doesn't seem to have done her due diligence on Peterson's activities before presenting his video. While her professor might be overstating the issue by comparing Peterson to Hitler, Milo is a more instructive parallel. When presenting such a complex topic, it's probably better to focus on people who are well versed in the nuances of the topic.

RAMBUKKANA: Okay, just to give you a context. Also within all of this that is happening, Laurier is being blanketed with white supremacist posters currently. There is another debate in society, which is whether or not North America should be a set of white nationalist states, and that it should be ethnically cleansed of other people. That is also a current debate in society. Would you show something in your tutorial that had white supremacists and non-white supremacists debating whether or not other people should live in North America? Is that something that you would show?

SHEPHERD: If that was related to the content of the week, and we were talking about right-wing speech bubbles, maybe. It depends on the content. If there's really ideas that are existing out there like that, then, I mean. Look, the thing is, I don't see what's transphobic about showing a video of Jordan Peterson. He's a real person. He's out there.

RAMBUKKANA: He's a real person, but he is a real person who has engaged in targeted behavior that – targeting of trans students in a particular, like, basically doxxing them - if you know the term – like, giving out their personal information so that they will be attacked, harassed, so that death threats will find them. This is something that he has done to his own students, has done to other students. And this is also something that the students are aware of. So this is basically like playing – not to kind of do the thing where everything is kind of compared to Hitler – but this is like neutrally playing a speech by Hitler or Milo Yiannopoulos...

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[Cream]

So why did she show it

Wow. Thanks for giving the asshole right evidence.

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Who gives a fuck about the right they turn anything and nothing into everything

 

[Ketkat]

What would have been the problem with her agreeing with it as long as her arguments weren't rooted in transphobia? I don't know what Jordan Peterson's arguments against that language were (or who he is), but I feel like not agreeing with the use of those words isn't automatically problematic.

Of course since she didn't even express any feelings one way or the other and was just showing a clip, there is no reason to be upset about this.

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Maybe you should look into the things he says

 

[Caz]

So why did she show it

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Both sides, bruh!

That's literally what she says in the transcript, i'd recommend reading it.

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

It's worth to listen to the transcript: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YdFlKaJv4g&t=44s

 

[Deleted member 2533]

Free Speech Champion Jordan Peterson Just Wants A Website Targetting Academics He Dislikes & Wants Them Removed. For Freedom: https://pressprogress.ca/university...n-is-planning-a-targeted-harassment-campaign/

This TA knew exactly what she was doing when she brought in Jordan Peterson's woefully misinformed understanding of C-16 and got exactly what she deserved. She wasn't censored: She was called out for making an egregious error and got exactly what she deserved for "presenting both sides".



Presenting Jordan Peterson's viewpoint without any commentary about how he misrepresents C-16, among the other subjects Peterson has butchered, is taking a side, full stop. You'll forgive me if i'm unsympathetic towards her being chewed out for using that clip, as if her students weren't aware that people like Jordan didn't exist.

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Censured, as in disciplined, not censored.

Also, Peterson is a high-profile individual that is featured prominently in the news and holds a teaching position as a prestigious university, I don't think it's inappropriate to show an interview with him as the basis of discussion. He's not some twitter troll.

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

Censured, as in disciplined, not censored.

Also, Peterson is a high-profile individual that is featured prominently in the news and holds a teaching position as a prestigious university, I don't think it's inappropriate to show an interview with him as the basis of discussion. He's not some twitter troll.

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He is, if you disagree with his views.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

How come this only ever applies to margalized people being expose to hate?

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I don't think it would be difficult to find examples of bigoted straight white men being exposed to differing opinions. In fact, it probably happens in the typical college humanities class.

 

[Ketkat]

He is, if you disagree with his views.

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Do you not?

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

Do you not?

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Which ones?

 

[Ketkat]

Which ones?

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Obviously the ones that people disagree with that make him a "twitter troll" to them. What views of his do you agree with that were presented here?

 

[AoM]

Poor judgment on the TA's part, at best. She doesn't seem to have done her due diligence on Peterson's activities before presenting his video. While her professor might be overstating the issue by comparing Peterson to Hitler, Milo is a more instructive parallel. When presenting such a complex topic, it's probably better to focus on people who are well versed in the nuances of the topic.

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Not sure if that was a typo or not, but it wasn't a video by Peterson, but a clip (3-5 minutes) from this video. And disregard this if you meant a "video of him".

 

[mac]

I don't know the exact clip she showed but the original video seems like the ideal "both sides," of an argument.



The exchange and debate in the video is exactly what college students should be taught to emulate.

 

[Mona]

Obviously the ones that people disagree with that make him a "twitter troll" to them. What views of his do you agree with that were presented here?

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presented here? do you guys have a clip of what was shown in class?

I don't know the exact clip she showed but the original video seems like the ideal "both sides," of an argument.



The exchange and debate in the video is exactly what college students should be taught to emulate.

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yea i searched youtube and found this exact video, watching now

 

[Slayven]

I don't think it would be difficult to find examples of bigoted straight white men being exposed to differing opinions. In fact, it probably happens in the typical college humanities class.

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But those opinions aren't of the hate kind. If you are lgbt you probably know people think you are an abomination. No one needs that when you are taking a writing course

 

[Hat22]

If anything, efforts to silence him kinda justify his theory that academia is trying to silence his side.

Free Speech Champion Jordan Peterson Just Wants A Website Targetting Academics He Dislikes & Wants Them Removed. For Freedom: https://pressprogress.ca/university...n-is-planning-a-targeted-harassment-campaign/

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You're making the site more malicious than what it is. It's not a harassment tool. It's a tool for ranking professors and directing right wing students away from left wing lecturers.

I don't think people should be picking their profs based on ideology and I think that forming political bubbles is harmful but him trying to facilitate that does not make him a nazi.

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

Obviously the ones that people disagree with that make him a "twitter troll" to them. What views of his do you agree with that were presented here?

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I may not see him eye to eye when it comes to transgender pronouns, but as a U of T student, I find most of his teachings quite intriguing.

 

[Ketkat]

presented here? do you guys have a clip of what was shown in class?

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This is the guy who says he won't gender a trans person correctly if he senses they have a chip on their shoulder.

You're making the site more malicious than what it is. It's not a harassment tool. It's a tool for ranking professors and directing right wing students away from left wing lecturers.

I don't think people should be picking their profs based on ideology and I think that forming political bubbles is harmful but him trying to facilitate that does not make him a nazi.

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He has literally advocated that those subjects be removed from all universities.

I may not see him eye to eye when it comes to transgender pronouns, but as a U of T student, I find most of his teachings quite intriguing.

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So you also see him as a twitter troll then? Or can we just admit that shitposts are pointless and have a real conversation

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

So you also see him as a twitter troll then? Or can we just admit that shitposts are pointless and have a real conversation

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Huh?!? I don't believe he is a Twitter troll, I don't know why you think that from my posts?!?

 

[Ketkat]

Huh?!? I don't believe he is a Twitter troll, I don't know why you think that from my posts?!?

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"He's not a twitter troll" Then you say "He is if you disagree with him" Fuck off with this.

 

['3y Kingdom]

Which ones?

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How about his opinions on transgender pronouns and C16? You know, the subjects the video shown in class was exploring. Keep in mind that Peterson has already been shown to have completely misrepresented the reach of that bill and has yet to establish a legal basis for his argument.

This is the same "academic" who claimed that "social justice warrior-type activists" were "overrepresented in the provincial government" because "the current premier is a lesbian in her sexual preferences."

 

[VenomousCoffee]

But those opinions aren't of the hate kind. If you are lgbt you probably know people think you are an abomination. No one needs that when you are taking a writing course

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If you were only talking about hate speech directed at minorities, then your post was circular logic, no? 'Why is it only minority groups are told they have to hear about shit directed at minority groups?'

 

[okayfrog]

So this is basically like playing – not to kind of do the thing where everything is kind of compared to Hitler – but this is like neutrally playing a speech by Hitler or Milo Yiannopoulos...

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... and? What's wrong with that? Should not these horrific views be presented without bias within a college course? Would not the onus be on the student to present why these views are problematic or, in a class about language use, detail how these people are able to use language to convince others that their views are not ass horrific as they actually are?

What's wrong with presenting a "both sides" debate as a means of facilitating discussion?

 

[Antrax]

Peterson should be fired, and people need to stop pretending to be good teachers if they're going to potentially put their students on blast just for existing.

As a professor myself, I'm mostly frustrated that this TA never really considered that she might have trans students. As a teacher, you owe it to your students to give them the best possible education you can, which means making them feel as welcome as you can. Certainly they should feel safe being who they are in your classroom.

This TA failed to do that, and that upsets me.

 

[Deleted member 2533]

He is, if you disagree with his views.

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I mean that he's not a twitter troll in that he's a tenured professor at Canada's largest university, features on news discussion programmes, has written in major daily national newspapers. You may not like him, but he's a prominent, newsworthy figure with a national platform and the support of a major university.

 

[Slayven]

If you were only talking about hate speech directed at minorities, then your post was circular logic, no? 'Why is it only minority groups are told they have to hear about shit directed at minority groups?'

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What? You are not making any sense

 

[Caz]

Censured, as in disciplined, not censored.

Also, Peterson is a high-profile individual that is featured prominently in the news and holds a teaching position as a prestigious university, I don't think it's inappropriate to show an interview with him as the basis of discussion. He's not some twitter troll.

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Leaving aside the fact that Peterson has literally doxxed some of his students, proposed building a website, said Milo was "an amazing person" and in no way should a starting point to discuss Bill C-16 given his aforementioned misrepresentation of the law (muh free peaches)...have you seen Peterson's Twitter account?



I legitimately do not understand how U of T hasn't fired him when he's going after journalists like this.

 

[Johnny Cage itS]

"He's not a twitter troll" Then you say "He is if you disagree with him" Fuck off with this.

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I am very sorry, I am failing to follow you here, If I don't agree with one view of an academic professor's many socio political views, I don't equate him to a "Twitter troll"

We may just have very different views of what a "Twitter Troll" is... There is no need to tell me to "fuck off' please.

 

[Souzetsu]

It's worth to listen to the transcript: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YdFlKaJv4g&t=44s

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Found another video on this channel where Peterson states that "the idea that gender identity is independent of biological sex is insane, it's wrong." Also, it's a video chat with Sargon.

Yeah, I'm not liking this guy.

 

['3y Kingdom]

... and? What's wrong with that? Should not these horrific views be presented without bias within a college course? Would not the onus be on the student to present why these views are problematic...

What's wrong with presenting a "both sides" debate as a means of facilitating discussion?

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Students could do that at home by just browsing Twitter and YouTube, which is apparently how a lot of people get their information. A TA, if they wish to waste time on someone like Peterson with no demonstrated understanding of the issues, should make clear exactly the kind of hateful position he represents, just as they would in discussing Milo.

 

[Kuroyume]

RAMBUKKANA: [Do you see] why that might have been seen as problematic by some of the students? Maybe even threatening?

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RAMBUKKANA: Okay, so, I understand the position that you're coming from, and your positionality, but the reality is that it has created a toxic climate for some of the students...

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A grown adult talking like this... Not a teenager on tumblr. And the Hitler comparisons...This guy is a fucking loon.