[UNMARKED SPOILERS] Captain Marvel - Spoiler Thread

Nov 30, 2017
1,891
The problem is she wasn't ANYWHERE.

Thanos hasn't started wrecking the galaxies yesterday. How old is Gamora? He was already practicing genocide back then. Is it possible that Carol never even heard of it? She never tried to stop him?
How would she know that a planet was being attacked? Does she have more powerful super hearing than Superman?
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,376
Singapore
On that whole "why didn't Fury call for her before" thing it's clear that it took a long ass time for Carol to show up after the pager went off so it's reasonable to assume that he could've used it off screen but every time the matter was resolved before she got there, that's my head canon.
Is there any indication that Fury never saw Carol again after she flew off at the end in the 90s?
 

SmokingBun

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
1,976
Felt like 2 siblings to me, the line "you weren't close to your parents so we became your family" really hit it home. I'm not sure I buy the lovers thing as they said they had separate beds, separate rooms, separate cars they would take to the base, etc.
Listen man, Disney and most of the industry are such chicken shit cowards we will probably never get a full on lesbian or gay kiss in a big budget blockbuster.
So let people have their dreams man, if Elsa and another girl hold hands long enough, the LGBT community will take that as a small victory.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,376
Singapore
It's only assumed. Personally I think it would ruin the impact of her return if she was coming back and forth again and again. It's like having a big tearful goodbye before you have to leave on a plane, only to run back because you forgot something.
I feel the opposite though? She wasn't saying goodbye for good to anyone. She was just going to help the Skrulls find a new home, and figure out what else is going on in the galaxy, and then come back to visit. It's been over 20 years, so the idea that she never returned to Earth ever just because there was "a lot to do" doesn't really jive. I think it's more likely she's been back, but the people she knows on Earth keep it a secret because they respect that she has commitments beyond Earth and it would be a complication for SHIELD to know about her specifically.
 

SmokingBun

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
1,976
The only thing that will satisfy people:

Steve: Where were you all this time? We could have used the help.
CM: *TURNS DRAMATICALLY TO THE CAMERA* You ever heard of GALACTUS?
*smash to black*
 

NumberThree

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,748
Saw the movie last night, it was ok. Middle of the pack Marvel movie as far as I'm concerned.

I was a bit disappointed seeing her become so powerful during her first movie after how Thor was built up for nearly a decade. The end of Ragnarok and then later his arrival to Wakanda were so cool after seing the dude be a "scrub" for several movies, how are we going to get anything like that with Captain Marvel? Or does she go even more OP in the comics?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,527
Houston
The most obvious one is the scene from Avengers where Nick Fury tells Banner, Thor, and Captain America "Last year, Earth had a visit from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly, hilariously outgunned."



He learned it in fact 20 years earlier from Captain Marvel, and learned also there are massive galactic empires at war that will level Earth without a second thought and took it all in stride including the existence of shapeshifter aliens. He was given a "massive power source", saw what Red Skull did with it, but still just sat on it for 15 years until Thor came to Earth. Thats a bit weird, and while you could try to explain it by not having the right scientists or whatever, I don't think there really is a good way to explain it except retconning Captain Marvel in.

The second obvious one is Fury's eye patch and him saying in Winter Soldier he got it because he trusted someone, but I guess you could explain that by him being embarrassed about the truth.
there's never a point in any of the films that Fury told the Avengers whole truths. They didn't even know what the upgraded pager was and we can only assume they found it when they went looking for him post Snap

the then current head of Shield was killed/kidnapped so never saw the alien body, the dude doing the dissection probably only told a handful of people afterwards. Hydra was also inside of Shield and via Agents of Shield they knew of aliens and would be in their best interest to downplay any knowledge of it
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,485
Listen man, Disney and most of the industry are such chicken shit cowards we will probably never get a full on lesbian or gay kiss in a big budget blockbuster.
So let people have their dreams man, if Elsa and another girl hold hands long enough, the LGBT community will take that as a small victory.
All the same, I do kinda want them to pair her up with Rhodey per the comics because how many interracial relationships do you see in mass media?
 

CosmicGP

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,260
You think she could have got that nice new straightened hairdo out in space? She had to have been back.
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,634
Maybe this was discussed already, so Nick Fury calls Captain Marvel in the post credits scene on Infinity War, later the remaining Avengers find the "phone" and tried to call her again?, is that the gist of it?. How they found the "phone"?, is that going to be explained or do we have to believe they found it off camera for plot reasons.
Its a pager, not a phone.

Wait for the next movie
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,068
Maybe this was discussed already, so Nick Fury calls Captain Marvel in the post credits scene on Infinity War, later the remaining Avengers find the "phone" and tried to call her again?, is that the gist of it?. How they found the "phone"?, is that going to be explained or do we have to believe they found it off camera for plot reasons.

"where is Fury? Why isn't he answering his phone?"
"track his phone signal/car GPS"
"oh shit he's dust. Wait, whats this pager thing - might be important lets take this back to base"
 

TheZjman

Member
Nov 22, 2018
460
The most obvious one is the scene from Avengers where Nick Fury tells Banner, Thor, and Captain America "Last year, Earth had a visit from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly, hilariously outgunned."



He learned it in fact 20 years earlier from Captain Marvel, and learned also there are massive galactic empires at war that will level Earth without a second thought and took it all in stride including the existence of shapeshifter aliens. He was given a "massive power source", saw what Red Skull did with it, but still just sat on it for 15 years until Thor came to Earth. Thats a bit weird, and while you could try to explain it by not having the right scientists or whatever, I don't think there really is a good way to explain it except retconning Captain Marvel in.

The second obvious one is Fury's eye patch and him saying in Winter Soldier he got it because he trusted someone, but I guess you could explain that by him being embarrassed about the truth.

I would say the first point is more they had prepped a defense for this sort of stuff, were investigating it, canned the 'Avengers Initiative' and had their first real city attack in Thor. The weapons are a product of the team not being ready.

And the eye thing is clearly because he never told anyone it got scratched by Goose. It even references it at the end of CM, with Coulson asking about the Kree blasting it out or whatever.
 

LL_Decitrig

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,196
Sunderland
Maybe this was discussed already, so Nick Fury calls Captain Marvel in the post credits scene on Infinity War, later the remaining Avengers find the "phone" and tried to call her again?, is that the gist of it?. How they found the "phone"?, is that going to be explained or do we have to believe they found it off camera for plot reasons.
You mean the pager? No, silly. It's a magic flying pager and flew back to Avengers HQ all by itself.

I swear, one day somebody will notice you never see any of the Avengers go to the toilet or fart. The fan speculation over this "plot hole" will be endless.
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
2,314
Maybe this was discussed already, so Nick Fury calls Captain Marvel in the post credits scene on Infinity War, later the remaining Avengers find the "phone" and tried to call her again?, is that the gist of it?. How they found the "phone"?, is that going to be explained or do we have to believe they found it off camera for plot reasons.
Like Banner coming across Stark's phone from Steve on the floor in Infinity War. Convenient.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,068
Can people summarise the issues with the first act, which seems a common complaint? I thought the movie was good overall and didn't spot any particularly big issues anywhere. Thought the opening with Jude Law setting up their relationship was fine, as was the mind reading with voice over (thought that was really well done). Not even sure what the 'first act' comprised or where it ended, so I'm curious to understand.

Unlikely to have time to rewatch until its released digitally - probably endgame will be my next cinema outing.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,890
Can people summarise the issues with the first act, which seems a common complaint? I thought the movie was good overall and didn't spot any particularly big issues anywhere. Thought the opening with Jude Law setting up their relationship was fine, as was the mind reading with voice over (thought that was really well done). Not even sure what the 'first act' comprised or where it ended, so I'm curious to understand.

Unlikely to have time to rewatch until its released digitally - probably endgame will be my next cinema outing.
Well all the exposition is pretty heavy handed. First on the kree planet, then Torfa, then her explaining all the shit to Fury.
Imo it becomes good when they meet up in the bar. The metro chase scene is.. fine but nothing exciting.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,068
Well all the exposition is pretty heavy handed. First on the kree planet, then Torfa, then her explaining all the shit to Fury.
Imo it becomes good when they meet up in the bar. The metro chase scene is.. fine but nothing exciting.

well its an origin story with a less than obvious setup so a little difficult to 'show, not tell' for some of that.

Agree the train was too long and not super interesting. Although I was relieved it wasn't even longer considering the trailers and promos lean heavily on that segment.
 

guek

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,177
Can people summarise the issues with the first act, which seems a common complaint? I thought the movie was good overall and didn't spot any particularly big issues anywhere. Thought the opening with Jude Law setting up their relationship was fine, as was the mind reading with voice over (thought that was really well done). Not even sure what the 'first act' comprised or where it ended, so I'm curious to understand.

Unlikely to have time to rewatch until its released digitally - probably endgame will be my next cinema outing.
The big problem with the first act is that there's no compelling reason to empathize with Carol. Assuming you're not at all familiar with the character and take everything at face value, they don't do a good job of making her interesting or setting up the mystery behind her origin. Even the way she wakes from her flashback makes it feel like something that's just normal for her rather than distressing. Carol doesn't really communicate directly with the audience in a way that makes you want to root for her, and she doesn't have any other character doing that for her either. Being emotionless at the start helps her overall arc but the lack of a strong POV character for the audience makes it tough to be engaged. Carol herself doesn't have an entertaining enough personality on her own to make up for it either. That's why the movie picks up for most people once she lands on Earth because you get to see her interact and play off of other characters in interesting ways. By the time she reconnects with Maria, a lot of people come around to rooting for her, but it takes longer than it should to get there. Imo, it would have been better had Carol had some narration during the opening or flashback, as cliches as that is, because the audience has a hard time understanding what she's going through when she's outwardly restrained from displaying emotion for plot reasons. Either that or the film should have opened with Starforce on a mission to grab attention and highlight their team dynamics. All of that is compounded by how much exposition is in the first few minutes. Any time a character has to say "you know this" after laying down exposition like Yon-Rogg does is just bad writing. There's like 10 minutes of straight exposition and then a mission that feels like it's supposed to have stakes but really doesn't give you a reason to care.
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,358
I love the first half because it introduce an interesting part of MCU --- Kree's homeworld and Warrior squad. Carol doesn't even register to me until she got captured and we get that glimpse into her memory which then made me rooting for her into figuring out her past.
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,535
The big problem with the first act is that there's no compelling reason to empathize with Carol. Assuming you're not at all familiar with the character and take everything at face value, they don't do a good job of making her interesting or setting up the mystery behind her origin. Even the way she wakes from her flashback makes it feel like something that's just normal for her rather than distressing. Carol doesn't really communicate directly with the audience in a way that makes you want to root for her, and she doesn't have any other character doing that for her either. Being emotionless at the start helps her overall arc but the lack of a strong POV character for the audience makes it tough to be engaged. Carol herself doesn't have an entertaining enough personality on her own to make up for it either. That's why the movie picks up for most people once she lands on Earth because you get to see her interact and play off of other characters in interesting ways. By the time she reconnects with Maria, a lot of people come around to rooting for her, but it takes longer than it should to get there. Imo, it would have been better had Carol had some narration during the opening or flashback, as cliches as that is, because the audience has a hard time understanding what she's going through when she's outwardly restrained from displaying emotion for plot reasons. Either that or the film should have opened with Starforce on a mission to grab attention and highlight their team dynamics. All of that is compounded by how much exposition is in the first few minutes. Any time a character has to say "you know this" after laying down exposition like Yon-Rogg does is just bad writing. There's like 10 minutes of straight exposition and then a mission that feels like it's supposed to have stakes but really doesn't give you a reason to care.
I felt like this about Carol through the whole movie. There was just nothing there for me to latch onto. Even when she regains some of her memories I couldn't get invested in her as a character or her relationships. The movie just didn't do the work to make me care. Throughout the whole thing I thought she was just kind of a snarky wisecrack machine who occasionally looks a bit sad or confused. When she appeared in the mid-credits scene it was super jarring to me because seeing her next to these three characters who feel like actual people was like... it felt like they jammed an action figure in there or something. Put it this way: the idea that Carol is going to be instrumental in bringing down Thanos makes me less excited for Endgame. I don't care about her as a character and she has next to no personal stake in the conflict, aside from Fury getting dusted. They really need to do work in Endgame to make me care about Carol's role in it other than just as the group's biggest stick (arguably alongside Thor maybe?).

This really was my least favorite MCU movie, bar none. Even the bad ones have characters that I like, and I just couldn't find anything to latch onto here. Hell, Talos was probably the most interesting character in the movie. And he wasn't that great.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,501
So does Carol bleed blue or red? She got a transfusion when she was abducted but I can't remember he bleeding in the movie to show she had blue blood.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,638
So does Carol bleed blue or red? She got a transfusion when she was abducted but I can't remember he bleeding in the movie to show she had blue blood.
I thought she was shown bleeding blue, but that may have been during her altered flashback to the crash.

Though on the subject of blue blood, how did the professor manage to work undercover for years(?) at Project Pegasus and never once have to go in for a medical exam or something that would have revealed her blood is blue?
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,501
I thought she was shown bleeding blue, but that may have been during her altered flashback to the crash.

Though on the subject of blue blood, how did the professor manage to work undercover for years(?) at Project Pegasus and never once have to go in for a medical exam or something that would have revealed her blood is blue?
Family physician. Easily doctored.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,994
You mean the pager? No, silly. It's a magic flying pager and flew back to Avengers HQ all by itself.

I swear, one day somebody will notice you never see any of the Avengers go to the toilet or fart. The fan speculation over this "plot hole" will be endless.
One of my friends who wrote a script for a kids drama series had an executive from the network who told him to add scenes where characters explicitly say that they're going to change clothes before going out. The executive thought it was a brilliant idea to and wondered why no one taught of it before. Lol
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,687
One improvement I'd make to the movie.

Put the first post-credit scene (where it connects to Endgame as the second post-credit scene).

The first post-credit scene should have been the Iron Man 1 Post-credit scene but it starts from Fury's perspective rather than Tony's.
 

Gustaf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,869
I felt like this about Carol through the whole movie. There was just nothing there for me to latch onto. Even when she regains some of her memories I couldn't get invested in her as a character or her relationships. The movie just didn't do the work to make me care. Throughout the whole thing I thought she was just kind of a snarky wisecrack machine who occasionally looks a bit sad or confused. When she appeared in the mid-credits scene it was super jarring to me because seeing her next to these three characters who feel like actual people was like... it felt like they jammed an action figure in there or something. Put it this way: the idea that Carol is going to be instrumental in bringing down Thanos makes me less excited for Endgame. I don't care about her as a character and she has next to no personal stake in the conflict, aside from Fury getting dusted. They really need to do work in Endgame to make me care about Carol's role in it other than just as the group's biggest stick (arguably alongside Thor maybe?).

This really was my least favorite MCU movie, bar none. Even the bad ones have characters that I like, and I just couldn't find anything to latch onto here. Hell, Talos was probably the most interesting character in the movie. And he wasn't that great.
i mean, monica and maria could be dusted too?

what "personal stake" has antman with Thanos? huh? he wasnt even fighting him. (hint: his girlfriend and mentor got dusted)

stop assuming things.

also no shit you are more invested in characaters that have been know for almost ten years than a character you just meet
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,535
i mean, monica and maria could be dusted too?

what "personal stake" has antman with Thanos? huh? he wasnt even fighting him. (hint: his girlfriend and mentor got dusted)

stop assuming things.

also no shit you are more invested in characaters that have been know for almost ten years than a character you just meet
My point is that I don't think there's a single MCU character who had their own movie that still felt like such a cardboard cut-out at the end of it, in my opinion. Your response reads pretty hostile btw.
 

Cyclonesweep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,595
My point is that I don't think there's a single MCU character who had their own movie that still felt like such a cardboard cut-out at the end of it, in my opinion. Your response reads pretty hostile btw.
Thor was pretty cardboard after his first 2 movies. Dr Strange was too. No personal stake in anything either except...it's his home.

She only seems like it because it's recent to you.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,542
Thor was pretty cardboard after his first 2 movies. Dr Strange was too. No personal stake in anything either except...it's his home.

She only seems like it because it's recent to you.
I don’t agree about Thor, at all. Thor is a very well-defined character in the first movie and sees strong character growth/change by film’s end.
 

guek

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,177
My point is that I don't think there's a single MCU character who had their own movie that still felt like such a cardboard cut-out at the end of it, in my opinion. Your response reads pretty hostile btw.
I get where you're coming from but disagree that she didn't become a real character by the end. That she's a blank slate at the start was by design so we could see her come into her own. It also ties into the feminist themes about resisting repression and accepting oneself. It's just that they didn't appropriately balance it out with other interesting characters until they got to Earth.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,542
So will Carol’s warp-capable ships play a role in Endgame? Will this be how they save Tony and Nebula?

Are the Kree the only society with warp capability in this universe? Everyone else seems to use jump points
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,535
Thor was pretty cardboard after his first 2 movies. Dr Strange was too. No personal stake in anything either except...it's his home.

She only seems like it because it's recent to you.
Disagree. Thor had a clear arc in Thor 1 (I am also a rare Thor 1 liker). That scene where Odin casts him out has more pathos than all of Cap Marvel. Thor 2 was not a good movie but I still enjoyed seeing Thor and Loki. I think Captain Marvel is a bad movie and an extremely flimsy character, it has nothing to do with recency, I know my own feelings pretty well, so don't project stuff that I didn't say.

Also the feminist themes, nah, don't even wanna go there. It's peak White Feminism. Don't try to sell me that. Girl Leans In While "Just A Girl" Literally Plays In The Background. Most eye-rolling needle drop I've heard in a minute. I'll just echo Sally Jane Black's thoughts on that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,527
Houston
On that whole "why didn't Fury call upon her before" thing it's clear that it took a long ass time for Carol to show up after the pager went off so it's reasonable to assume that he could've used it off screen but every time the matter was resolved before she got there, that's my head canon.
why bother when he found local people who won every time and part of the time people thought he was dead
 
Dec 31, 2017
686
That ended up being okay-good. Better than Ant-Man 2 smidge below Guardians 2, but not on the ridiculous level of the rest of Phase 3

I love how how each new movie just casually drops how shitty the Kree are. Was Djimon playing the same character from Guardians? I know people play different roles but it's odd he'd play THAT similar a role.

During the montage of people underestimating Carol. Her brother(?) told her to slow down, she sped up wrecked and her father got mad at her. Was that one memory supposed to be incongruous with the rest?

Because she came off like a dangerous little asshole. I suspect her family is being setup for something later. They specifically mention she doesn't get along with them.

I also think that Skrull daughter has been masquerading as somebody important for a few movies now.

Most MCU flicks retcon and integrate into past movies pretty well. Which is weird that the one specifically designed to kind of doesn't. I'm guessing her friend turned Fury down on working for Shield.
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,485
Disagree. Thor had a clear arc in Thor 1 (I am also a rare Thor 1 liker). That scene where Odin casts him out has more pathos than all of Cap Marvel. Thor 2 was not a good movie but I still enjoyed seeing Thor and Loki. I think Captain Marvel is a bad movie and an extremely flimsy character, it has nothing to do with recency, I know my own feelings pretty well, so don't project stuff that I didn't say.
“Manchild grows up, proves himself worthy of sex” is not the only character arc or story that exists, but it’s apparently the only one that “internet critics” recognize as an arc.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,638
“Manchild grows up, proves himself worthy of sex” is not the only character arc or story that exists, but it’s apparently the only one that “internet critics” recognize as an arc.
It's been a few years but I recall his arc being going from a petulant, impatient, battle crazed good to someone willing to sacrifice himself even without his powers. As opposed to whatever the heck that mess you just said was.