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[UNMARKED SPOILERS] Captain Marvel - Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Deleted member 16365
- Start date
I got around to seeing it. I had low expectations off the trailer but it turned out to be pretty decent. Mid tier Marvel.
My major problem with this was the same I had with the first two Thor movies. I havent read the comics and I just cant connect to the space stuff personally and it does nothing for me. Kree, skrulls, accusers etc etc zzzzzzz. Especially when you are asking me to sympathize or empathize with aliens without doing any world building, its just CGI stuff at the point. Its fine if they are an alien threat (Avengers movies) or they are used for comedy (Thor Ragnarok, again the second half of that is weaker for me than the first half for this reason). But when you are trying pull emotional strings where I am supposed to feel for them, you gotta give me more than "These guys have had it tough".
As far as Captain Marvel herself is concerned, it feels like a missed opportunity. I feel like if they had worked more on her back story, the second half of the film would have landed better. Her finding her super hero moment is almost there (the falling and getting back up theme) but it still feels a little light since we never spend enough time with her in her "non super hero" days to really feel that. Captain America is a really good example on how to do that well (I would still rate the first CA movie being weaker than this one though).
On the other hand, Brie Larson does a really good job. I wasnt sold on the trailers but she is really good in the film. If she gets a better script and a better director, she can really hit it out of the park. The supporting cast is really good too.
Its a decent enough base to make good films out of.
My major problem with this was the same I had with the first two Thor movies. I havent read the comics and I just cant connect to the space stuff personally and it does nothing for me. Kree, skrulls, accusers etc etc zzzzzzz. Especially when you are asking me to sympathize or empathize with aliens without doing any world building, its just CGI stuff at the point. Its fine if they are an alien threat (Avengers movies) or they are used for comedy (Thor Ragnarok, again the second half of that is weaker for me than the first half for this reason). But when you are trying pull emotional strings where I am supposed to feel for them, you gotta give me more than "These guys have had it tough".
As far as Captain Marvel herself is concerned, it feels like a missed opportunity. I feel like if they had worked more on her back story, the second half of the film would have landed better. Her finding her super hero moment is almost there (the falling and getting back up theme) but it still feels a little light since we never spend enough time with her in her "non super hero" days to really feel that. Captain America is a really good example on how to do that well (I would still rate the first CA movie being weaker than this one though).
On the other hand, Brie Larson does a really good job. I wasnt sold on the trailers but she is really good in the film. If she gets a better script and a better director, she can really hit it out of the park. The supporting cast is really good too.
Its a decent enough base to make good films out of.
I've been trying not to fangirl, but this one really got to me. I'd love to see both Tessa and Brie in the next Janelle Monae video.
Something I GOTTA sound off on is just how much I enjoyed Talos in this movie. My expectations were pleasantly subverted and EVERYTHING leading up to the movie seemed to be giving me the same "normal expectation" of Talos's role in the story - in the comics he's typically a major Skrull villain, the Skrulls themselves are often a cosmic threat, the casting of veteran villain actor Ben Mendelsohn just reinforced it - so when he's ultimately revealed as incredibly sympathetic and a major ally to the heroes in the third act it really paid off. Everyone in my theater was rooting for him by the end.
It's incredible to me just how much he's the "anti-Malekith". I thought for sure he'd just be another non-American accented actor covered in alien make-up with a one-note personality meant to be dark, villainous, plot-heavy, and BORING. Everything looked like that's what he was going to be.
Instead, he was resourceful, witty, humorous, and ultimately one of the movie's highlights for me, and I really hope we see more of him in future Captain Marvel or MCU films.
It's incredible to me just how much he's the "anti-Malekith". I thought for sure he'd just be another non-American accented actor covered in alien make-up with a one-note personality meant to be dark, villainous, plot-heavy, and BORING. Everything looked like that's what he was going to be.
Instead, he was resourceful, witty, humorous, and ultimately one of the movie's highlights for me, and I really hope we see more of him in future Captain Marvel or MCU films.
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I would love to see Janelle get cast in the MCU.
Wait.
You know, Marvel is going to need to cast a present day 30-something version of Monica for Captain Marvel 2...
Something I GOTTA sound off on is just how much I enjoyed Talos in this movie. My expectations were pleasantly subverted and EVERYTHING leading up to the movie seemed to giving me the same "normal expectation" of Talos's role in the story - in the comics he's typically a major Skrull villain, the Skrulls themselves are often a cosmic threat, the casting of veteran villain actor Ben Mendelsohn just reinforced it - so when he's ultimately revealed as incredibly sympathetic and a major ally to the heroes in the third act it really paid off. Everyone in my theater was rooting for him by the end.
It's incredible to me just how much he's the "anti-Malekith". I thought for sure he'd just be another non-American accented actor covered in alien make-up with a one-note personality meant to be dark, villainous, plot-heavy, and BORING. Everything looked like that's what he was going to be.
Instead, he was resourcefully, witty, humorous, and ultimately one of the movie's highlights for me, and I really hope we see more of him in future Captain Marvel or MCU films.
Absolutely agreed, dude was great
Something I GOTTA sound off on is just how much I enjoyed Talos in this movie. My expectations were pleasantly subverted and EVERYTHING leading up to the movie seemed to giving me the same "normal expectation" of Talos's role in the story - in the comics he's typically a major Skrull villain, the Skrulls themselves are often a cosmic threat, the casting of veteran villain actor Ben Mendelsohn just reinforced it - so when he's ultimately revealed as incredibly sympathetic and a major ally to the heroes in the third act it really paid off. Everyone in my theater was rooting for him by the end.
It's incredible to me just how much he's the "anti-Malekith". I thought for sure he'd just be another non-American accented actor covered in alien make-up with a one-note personality meant to be dark, villainous, plot-heavy, and BORING. Everything looked like that's what he was going to be.
Instead, he was resourcefully, witty, humorous, and ultimately one of the movie's highlights for me, and I really hope we see more of him in future Captain Marvel or MCU films.
Great post. He really was a pleasant surprise and kinda made the movie
The comment about lightspeed made me think... Did the Kree have lightspeed ships then? I mean, clearly you can see their fleet "warping" out at the end when they're leaving Earth for their homeworld. If they DO have it, why was it so important for them to grab that tech then? Was it JUST to get it away from the Skrulls who were trying to develop it so they could catch up to the Kree in order to get away from them?
From the way the Kree talked about it, it sounds more like wormhole/jump gate type tech. Yon-rogg mentions having to get to a jump point before they can get to earth and it being 20+ hours from their current location.
Yes, for whatever reason that probably won't be explained, there is a jump gate right by Earth.
The Ultimates (2016) and Young Avengers (2013) are the only things worth checking with her prominently in it.
:( I was hoping her books would be good. I'll probably check out The Ultimates, thanks
Why not?
And if they didn't. The Celestials have been messing with life on Earth since before we would be considered sentient.
Earth is the centre of the universe. Was explained in Thor when he was discussing the life tree and how Midgard is at the centre. Lol. Not trying to explain your thing.
Just stating that the Earth is literally the centre of the universe
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It doesn't have to be a manufactured gate network, it could be naturally occurring wormholes that function the same way.
That still doesn't answer why there is one in Earth orbit though.
As deimosmasque said, in the comics, the Kree have been fucking with the Earth for millennia. So look at it less as a narratively convenient plot hole and more a hint at a larger backstory.
Now, how much the MCU is going to get into it remains to be seen, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get some kind of hints/follow up in the Eternals movie.
Finally saw this. Went in not expecting much, was let down by each trailer leading up to the movie and the reviews inspired little confidence... but it's actually really good? I liked it from the word go. Not perfect but like, solid from start to finish. Maybe my second-favorite Marvel origin flick after Iron Man. I thought the Gwen Stefani scene was weirdly cut—a villain is thrown into a jukebox and the song blares out, making me think the song is diegetic, but the jukebox doesn't appear to turn on; later shots show it on in the background. It feels like something didn't come together there. But that's like the only part that let me down from a filmmaking perspective. The script was great, Jude Law's character was terrifically written and his relationship with Carol was superb, never over the top and always in keeping with the film's theme. There was very little comic-speak, especially compared to Ant Man and the Wasp which is like the absolute nadir of comic book scripts ("let's stick the micro-quantum whatzit in the mega-quantum thingamabob to activate the pseudo-quantum doodad")—the only real offender was the Supreme Intelligence, but connecting it to Carol's subconscious went a long way toward ameliorating the friction of an unexplained magic technology. It becomes representative of her personal struggle and is used to illustrate her overcoming the shackles that have been imposed on her, and that, until then, she accepted. Really smartly done. The final conflict is brought together more skillfully than the usual Marvel fare, a small-scale skirmish with carefully illustrated stakes, driven by character in an unusually deft way.
Came away impressed. It's one of Marvel's best scripts so far and feels under appreciated out of the gate. It's no Black Panther but it's a gem in its own right.
Came away impressed. It's one of Marvel's best scripts so far and feels under appreciated out of the gate. It's no Black Panther but it's a gem in its own right.
But logical that the Kree would choose a relatively accessible planet for their experiments.
In Iron Man 1, why did Coulson call it the "Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division" and say they were working on a better name for it if it was already called SHIELD in this movie?
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Would you go to a civilian with zero knowledge about government agencies that aren't in the news "Hey, I'm John Smith and I work for the NRO" or would you say "Hey, I'm John Smith and I work for the National Reconnaisance Office"?
Yes but Tony said it needed a better name, and instead of telling him they had one, Coulson says "We're working on it".
Edit: oops, he actually says it to Pepper. Point still stands!
It's a joke. Nobody names their organization where the acronym spells "SHIELD" accidentally.
Anyways Winter Soldier establishes that SHIELD existed back in the 70s or 80s.
Literally a whole thread on this: https://www.resetera.com/threads/just-saw-captain-marvel-spoilers-plothole.105885/
My guess is that they were placed by the Celestials and that could be addressed on Eternals.
Because it's an inconsistency in the writing. Yes, even Marvel and Kevin Feige don't have every little minute detail of these movies perfectly planned out
I fucking love this movie
The entire film is an utter subversion and destruction of the Master/Student relationship. In film, the master dreams for the day they are bested by their student, that's the entire goal of the training. Here Yon-Rogg fears it, he is not training Danvers to one day best him, he is training her to make sure she never does. She's not his student, she's his weapon, to be used and controlled by him. It's fucking brilliance to use such recognizable trappings like the Master/Student and the sparring scene to demonstrate an abusive relationship, because that's often how abuse is.... it looks normal.... it looks familiar and from the outside it's invisible.
Even the climax is a subversion of Master/Students tropes. Even when they go the route of the Master is actually the bad guy, the climax is still often the student defeats the master hand to hand (or sword to sword or whatever) as they were trained to do and the fight is presented as somewhat noble, and definitely tragic and usually the defeated Master tells the student how proud they are, even a tragic fight between hero and now villainous master is framed with an air of genuine love... etc... .
Here Yon-Rogg wants her to fight how he trained her because he's trying to manipulate her and because he's relishing the opportunity to beat the shit out of her, it was never training it was grooming. So rather than give in, rather than "fight him like a man", rather than buy into Toxic Masculinity Macho Bullshit (which often entrap Strong Women Trope characters), she blasts him. She doesn't use the masters tools to dismantle the house, she uses her own tools.
Fuck yes
The entire film is an utter subversion and destruction of the Master/Student relationship. In film, the master dreams for the day they are bested by their student, that's the entire goal of the training. Here Yon-Rogg fears it, he is not training Danvers to one day best him, he is training her to make sure she never does. She's not his student, she's his weapon, to be used and controlled by him. It's fucking brilliance to use such recognizable trappings like the Master/Student and the sparring scene to demonstrate an abusive relationship, because that's often how abuse is.... it looks normal.... it looks familiar and from the outside it's invisible.
Even the climax is a subversion of Master/Students tropes. Even when they go the route of the Master is actually the bad guy, the climax is still often the student defeats the master hand to hand (or sword to sword or whatever) as they were trained to do and the fight is presented as somewhat noble, and definitely tragic and usually the defeated Master tells the student how proud they are, even a tragic fight between hero and now villainous master is framed with an air of genuine love... etc... .
Here Yon-Rogg wants her to fight how he trained her because he's trying to manipulate her and because he's relishing the opportunity to beat the shit out of her, it was never training it was grooming. So rather than give in, rather than "fight him like a man", rather than buy into Toxic Masculinity Macho Bullshit (which often entrap Strong Women Trope characters), she blasts him. She doesn't use the masters tools to dismantle the house, she uses her own tools.
Fuck yes
Reading your post just reminds me (and articulates much better then I could ) about why I love the female path in Star Wars Knights of the Old republic. It's definitely doing similar things.
Back to captain marvel. Really liked it, feel like TFA parallels are accurate and that's one of my favourite marvel flicks. Although something tells me that this movie will grow on me a lot when I rewatch it.
It's definitely a movie whose depth is not as overt.
I left the film loving it for being another fun Marvel movie but it wasn't until I started thinking about it in the terms I laid out above that I started to really think it's something more than.
Peak initialism reached. On first reading I thought you were referring to a recent Star Wars film called The Force Awakens.
I do wish people would just write the words.
I think this is a good read but she definitely had the power to fight him hand to hand and break every single bone in his body in the process, and I kind of rooted to see that. Like, him engaging her with the same way she did before and she getting out of his hold or grab or choke by casually breaking an arm or leg.
He got off easy.
It still works well because of how absolutely dismissive she is of his bullshit, but part of me wanted a proper beatdown.
Of course she did.... but he was clearly trying to goad her to prove she didn't need her "power" and to fight him sans "weapons".... there's a reason the Kree call her a weapon afterall
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Yeah...even Steve Rogers told Tony to put on the suit and fight him in Avengers. Now that is how a hero act.
Both parties in this instance are trying to create the illusion of a level playing field to get the other more powerful person to engage them on terms that are favourable to them.
It's the same as Jamie Lannister trying to goad Rob Stark into a one on one fight in game of thrones season 1. There is nothing heroic about it. It's gamesmanship. Cap is never beyond stuff like that despite most viewing him as a purely noble force.
As for Carol excelsiorlef put it best. The whole movie has others put Carol down or to try and use her on their terms. Because of this her heroic moment isn't winning a fight (which lets be honest is a foregone conclusion in this type of film) but rather it's her choice to embrace her own agency and do things on her own terms
Of course, but part of her new power set was superior strength and endurance. I'm not saying she should fight him "without powers", but just hurt him more.
The scene as shot is much more immediate because "her power = photon blasts" is a very easy association. I just wanted to see a good old beatdown (the movie is surprisingly scarce on hand to hand fightinging honestly).
It would have undermined what they were going for.
Winning on her terms > Winning on his
The "I'm not playing by your rules" message was probably more important here, yes.
On the other hand, I think him going for one of his chokeholds and her simply moving out of it breaking him like glass would have still sent the message that she was breaking out of the things that held her down before.
One of my favorite shots in Alita was when Zapan grabs her throat and there's this moment of pause before she immediately grabs his and slams hims face through a table. It immediately sets the tone and it really sells the idea that none of the usual sexist power plays are going to work with her.
Nah.. there's just no need.
She's her true her now. He's nothing. That's what the message is there. We don't need to see what you suggest because she's so far above that now. He can't even get close to her. I get you are thinking visually but narratively, morally, spiritually, emotionally what they did is pitch perfect
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Unrelated note making Mar-Vell a woman and a scientist rather than a great male warrior is bloody genius
It further removes Carol from a "masculine" fight like a man origin and completely avoids the whole her power came from a man bullshit.
There are a few reasons for that though. Brie just isn't that good at it being the main one. There isn't much point wasting time on some badly performed fight scenes when you have an Oscar winning actress and the need to define a character that is unknown to many before the big Avengers finale
I'm not entirely sure the "fighting is masculine" angle is the really progressive one, tho. I know plenty of women who enjoy combat sports.
We should probably fight the stereotype that fighting is a guy thing, no?
I'm talking within the "Strong Woman" trope.
She's not a product of a male soldier warrior... but of research of a woman scientist. She's a child of peace not war.
Not that product of combat is always bad or requires a man... see Wonder Woman.
It's a nice change of pace.
Strong women are often defined by how closely they attain being like a Man. Carol is not that.
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