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LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
This is all very well, but remember that Carol was a warrior in all but name before she was abducted. She was not permitted to fly combat missions because that was against US military policy at the time, so she and Maria volunteered for dangerous and mysterious work which turned out to be Mar-Vell's secret project.

She really isn't a "child of peace."
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
I'm talking within the "Strong Woman" trope.

She's not a product of a male soldier warrior... but of research of a woman scientist. She's a child of peace not war.

Not that product of combat is always bad or requires a man... see Wonder Woman.

It's a nice change of pace.

Yeah, I can see that.

On another note, I wonder if the next arc will see a female supervillain after Thanos. It could be a good match up for Carol, if Carol becomes the centerpiece of the new team.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
Yeah, I can see that.

On another note, I wonder if the next arc will see a female supervillain after Thanos. It could be a good match up for Carol, if Carol becomes the centerpiece of the new team.

As the overarching big bad?

Hmmm problem is short of gender bending Marvel's iconic Thanos level threats doesn't have many women in it.

You could just make Doom a woman for example though. The vanity element would play well with societal expectations of female beauty and the pressures that come with maintaining it and the status reversals that often come when women lose it... and the jealousy of Reed could be a product of him as a man getting all this recognition for his intelligence while hers is disregarded and more emphasis is placed on her looks.

...

I think I just talked myself into really wanting a female Doctor Doom lol
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
As the overarching big bad?

Hmmm problem is short of gender bending Marvel's iconic Thanos level threats doesn't have many women in it.

You could just make Doom a woman for example though. The vanity element would play well with societal expectations of female beauty and the pressures that come with maintaining it and the status reversals that often come when women lose it...

They could go for Death. She actually liked Thanos, and now she's angry.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Eh Death doesn't really work like that.

She's not really a villain or a big bad as much as a facilitator and a force of nature... she's morally neutral and works better that way

I was joking but I think if we want to see more progressive content in the MCU we can't translate verbatim characters that were invented 50 years ago. Some compromise will be necessary, either by gender bending, or by expanding characters that maybe were stuck in a prize/damsel in distress role and so on.
 

Addi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,224
It would have undermined what they were going for.

Winning on her terms > Winning on his

Jude Law's character reminded me of interent trolls complaining about Mary Sues in that scene. "I would have won if you didn't have powers".
This idea that hand-on-hand combat is the ultimate test of "real" strength and thereby trying to make women inferior to men.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
I was joking but I think if we want to see more progressive content in the MCU we can't translate verbatim characters that were invented 50 years ago. Some compromise will be necessary, either by gender bending, or by expanding characters that maybe were stuck in a prize/damsel in distress role and so on.

Yep... which is why I'm now Team Woman Doom

I mean shit we've had two terrible cinematic Doom portrayal failures why not just distance the MCU one entirely from that and try something different that nonetheless actually captures the heart of Doom.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
Yep... which is why I'm now Team Woman Doom

I mean shit we've had two terrible cinematic Doom portrayal failures why not just distance the MCU one entirely from that and try something different that nonetheless actually captures the heart of Doom.

Making Doom a woman would make all this internet furore over CM look like nothing in comparison. Almost worth it for that alone
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Yep... which is why I'm now Team Woman Doom

I mean shit we've had two terrible cinematic Doom portrayal failures why not just distance the MCU one entirely from that and try something different that nonetheless actually captures the heart of Doom.

If she didn't get burnt with SW, Woman Doom portrayed by Gwendoline Christie could have definitely worked. Imposing, great acting, powerful voice. Heck it could still work.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,294
Gwendoline would have been great but this would quite literally be Phasma in a green cloak.

If this was 20 years ago, Andreas Katsulas would have been great.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,157
Saw it last night and I'd rank it somewhere in the middle - bottom of Marvel movies. It wasn't a bad movie but at the same time it didn't really do anything for me either. The major set pieces weren't really exciting aside from the fight inside the train.

Goose by far was the best thing about it. I also loved that scene with the montage of Carol busting her ass and then getting up throughout the years. I thought that was really cool.
 

suaveric

Member
Nov 9, 2017
361
I finally saw the movie, thought it was pretty good. It will be interesting g to see her match up with Thanos. One really weird thing about the movie is the words Captain Marvel are never once spoken. Is that even her name in the MCU? Seems really obvious to have her friend's daughter give her the nickname.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,642
I finally saw the movie, thought it was pretty good. It will be interesting g to see her match up with Thanos. One really weird thing about the movie is the words Captain Marvel are never once spoken. Is that even her name in the MCU? Seems really obvious to have her friend's daughter give her the nickname.

Yea that was pretty weird. Maybe they're waiting for her to be properly recognized as a superhero on Earth before finding a way to sneak it in there. Though like you said, Monica was pretty much a freebie that they surprisingly didn't go for.
 

Cantona222

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,136
Kuwait
Can someone explain to me the last memory sequence in the movie. The one where captain Marvel was strapped and in the sequence Dr. Lawson was an evil person.
-I don't understand why Dr. Lawson is evil in this sequence.
-I don't understand how Captain Marvel become much stronger after this sequence.

Thanks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
32,274
Atlanta GA
Can someone explain to me the last memory sequence in the movie. The one where captain Marvel was strapped and in the sequence Dr. Lawson was an evil person.
-I don't understand why Dr. Lawson is evil in this sequence.
-I don't understand how Captain Marvel become much stronger after this sequence.

Thanks.

That's not a memory sequence. She's "communing" with the Supreme Intelligence in real time inside her mind. Supremor, who takes the form of Doctor Lawson in her head, is more aggressive than before because it's afraid of Carol after she's learned the truth about her humanity and her capture & enslavement at the hands of the Kree.

With full confidence in her humanity and her power, Carol's finally able to break free of their control, destroying the power inhibitor on her neck. That allows her to unleash her full power.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
Can someone explain to me the last memory sequence in the movie. The one where captain Marvel was strapped and in the sequence Dr. Lawson was an evil person.
-I don't understand why Dr. Lawson is evil in this sequence.
-I don't understand how Captain Marvel become much stronger after this sequence.

Thanks.

It's not Dr Lawson, or a memory sequence, it's the leader of the kree, the supreme intelligence, who appears in a different form to everyone, taking the form of the person they consider most important (or something like that).

The kree had placed a power restraining device on Carol to help keep her in check, she breaks it in that sequence and goes to town.

Edit: I'm moments too slow.
 

Deleted member 1445

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,140
Can someone explain to me the last memory sequence in the movie. The one where captain Marvel was strapped and in the sequence Dr. Lawson was an evil person.
-I don't understand why Dr. Lawson is evil in this sequence.
-I don't understand how Captain Marvel become much stronger after this sequence.

Thanks.
That was the Kree AI that was presenting itself as Dr. Lawson. Captain Marvel doesn't become stronger, she removes her inhibitor. The thing she had on her neck was never giving her her powers, it was actually blocking them.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
-I don't understand why Dr. Lawson is evil in this sequence.
"She" is just the form the Supreme Intelligence took to spoke to Carol.
It's explained earlier in the film, the Kree's Supreme Intelligence (Their leader, and an A.I.) chooses somebody the person admires the most to present itself inside their minds; that's why it was puzzling to Carol she was seeing this lady she didn't remember.

-I don't understand how Captain Marvel become much stronger after this sequence.
She got the power from the accident, but she was restrained by the Kree by that inhibitor. At first Vers assumed this device was how she got extra powers than those of her teammates.
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,361
I just got back from seeing this and I don't know....I'm not crazy about it. It wasn't bad though, I just didn't think it was that good. It was very average marvel fare. Usually the humour works for me in the series but there was something about it in this movie where it just seemed...off. Maybe poor writing, not sure. But somewhere in-between forced and just plain off. That's the word I'd use to describe it in general, lots of it just seemed off.

I thought the second half was better than the first, when it really got going. All the setup just seemed weird before that. The Skrull guy being funny was funny though because of how ridiculous it always was lol. I also really enjoy how they tie the movies together.

I also do like Brie as Captain Marvel. I'm still praying to the marvel gods that she isn't some deus ex machina to save the day and this movie didn't do much to quell it. She just seems insanely powerful. I should trust the Russos I guess.

6.5/10 not bad at all.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
I fucking love this movie

The entire film is an utter subversion and destruction of the Master/Student relationship. In film, the master dreams for the day they are bested by their student, that's the entire goal of the training. Here Yon-Rogg fears it, he is not training Danvers to one day best him, he is training her to make sure she never does. She's not his student, she's his weapon, to be used and controlled by him. It's fucking brilliance to use such recognizable trappings like the Master/Student and the sparring scene to demonstrate an abusive relationship, because that's often how abuse is.... it looks normal.... it looks familiar and from the outside it's invisible.

Even the climax is a subversion of Master/Students tropes. Even when they go the route of the Master is actually the bad guy, the climax is still often the student defeats the master hand to hand (or sword to sword or whatever) as they were trained to do and the fight is presented as somewhat noble, and definitely tragic and usually the defeated Master tells the student how proud they are, even a tragic fight between hero and now villainous master is framed with an air of genuine love... etc... .

Here Yon-Rogg wants her to fight how he trained her because he's trying to manipulate her and because he's relishing the opportunity to beat the shit out of her, it was never training it was grooming. So rather than give in, rather than "fight him like a man", rather than buy into Toxic Masculinity Macho Bullshit (which often entrap Strong Women Trope characters), she blasts him. She doesn't use the masters tools to dismantle the house, she uses her own tools.

Fuck yes

It wasn't immediately clear to me at first but the movie was also about a woman who was ripped out of her life and family.
Carol had a life with Maria and Monica but due to her being special, she was abducted, and physically and mentally altered without her permission. They then gaslight her and lie to her to keep her in place so that they could use her. It was actually a story that's about a woman who escaped her abductors and abuse, hidden under the superhero veneer.

I also do like Brie as Captain Marvel. I'm still praying to the marvel gods that she isn't some deus ex machina to save the day and this movie didn't do much to quell it. She just seems insanely powerful. I should trust the Russos I guess.

6.5/10 not bad at all.

The MCU has always been auite good at giving everyone opportunities to shine. If a rather powerless Black Widow can still shine in the MCU, I don't think we need to be worried that she will steal the thunder. This Avengers was always about giving the original team their focus, especially if some of them are leaving. That's why they didn't get snapped.
 

Thequietone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,052
Tony would see himself. Captain America would either see Bucky or the scientist that gave him the serum. Thor would see Odin.
 

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
It wasn't immediately clear to me at first but the movie was also about a woman who was ripped out of her life and family.
Carol had a life with Maria and Monica but due to her being special, she was abducted, and physically and mentally altered without her permission. They then gaslight her and lie to her to keep her in place so that they could use her. It was actually a story that's about a woman who escaped her abductors and abuse, hidden under the superhero veneer.

Pretty soon this will be the first film about a woman in an abusive relationship to gross more than a billion dollars worldwide.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
So if the other heroes were put into the SUPREME INTELLIGENCE machine; who would THEY see?

Tony would see Pepper, Cap would see Peggy, Thor would see Odin, Banner would see Betty Ross, Parker would see Aunt May, Widow would see either Clint or Cap (I'm leaning Clint), Clint would see his family, Wanda and Vision would see each other, Strange would see Christine Palmer, Rocket and Groot would see each other, Quill would see his Mother, Gamora is a hard call, Drax his Wife/Family, Mantis is unknown, BP is a hard call between his Father and Nakia, Bucky is unknown, Scott Lang would see Cassie, and Hope would see her Mother.

That's all I can think of atm.
 

Jhey Cyphre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,084
Finally caught this today.

I really liked this movie. It's easily the best of the origin movies and is just an all around solid movie.

No clue were the whole "Brie is wooden" crap came from. She was awesome and totally sells the character.
 

Deleted member 1726

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
9,661
Just got back from watching it and really enjoyed, was a great brain off fun flick.

I had no knowledge of her prior to this so I don't know how true to comics her origins is or what but I think it told a great story and worked really well.

Finally caught this today.

I really liked this movie. It's easily the best of the origin movies and is just an all around solid movie.

No clue were the whole "Brie is wooden" crap came from. She was awesome and totally sells the character.

I agree! It was great.

and I have no idea what basis the wooden claims are either, I thought she was great!
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
22,596
I saw it this morning and it was the first Marvel movie I found to be incredibly average. Nothing stood out as being really bad or good and as a result I walked away feeling at least i saw it in a movie theater and not at home. I was hoping for something more in Carol's story but its always kept very light without any compelling drama. Monica and Carol clearly were best friends but I never felt it. They really try to sell it in their kitchen table scene but its shot so dull the blinds were out acting them. It beats the audience over the head with its message of female empowerment in one scene in particular. The scene where Jude Law's character is taunting her saying "I won't allow you to be your best self until I, a superior man, say so." could have been done better with less Jude's hammy posturing or her comment about justifying herself to him. Its just too on the nose and is there to clue in audience members who can't understand subtext. Hopefully next time they don't use "Thats What I Call Music" as a soundtrack for their film next time. Brie is great and will be a wonderful leader of the new Marvel Avengers. Theres a lot of places to take her story. I just hope Marvel starts to look a bit deeper at its characters now that we're going into Phase 4/5.
 

JasonV

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,967
Tony would see Pepper, Cap would see Peggy, Thor would see Odin, Banner would see Betty Ross, Parker would see Aunt May, Widow would see either Clint or Cap (I'm leaning Clint), Clint would see his family, Wanda and Vision would see each other, Strange would see Christine Palmer, Rocket and Groot would see each other, Quill would see his Mother, Gamora is a hard call, Drax his Wife/Family, Mantis is unknown, BP is a hard call between his Father and Nakia, Bucky is unknown, Scott Lang would see Cassie, and Hope would see her Mother.

That's all I can think of atm.

Tony would obviously just see Tony.

Wouldn't Quill see David Hasselhoff?
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Tony would see Pepper, Cap would see Peggy, Thor would see Odin, Banner would see Betty Ross, Parker would see Aunt May, Widow would see either Clint or Cap (I'm leaning Clint), Clint would see his family, Wanda and Vision would see each other, Strange would see Christine Palmer, Rocket and Groot would see each other, Quill would see his Mother, Gamora is a hard call, Drax his Wife/Family, Mantis is unknown, BP is a hard call between his Father and Nakia, Bucky is unknown, Scott Lang would see Cassie, and Hope would see her Mother.

That's all I can think of atm.
Who would Goose see?

Actually, let this happen in the sequel: A showdown between Goose and the Feline Intelligence! A literal catfight >:3
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,857
I thought it was a very good movie after the first half our or so. Bit of a slow start but once it gets going it's pretty great.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Tony would obviously just see Tony.

Wouldn't Quill see David Hasselhoff?

Comic Tony, maybe, but MCU Tony would undoubtedly see Pepper. There's a measurable difference in Comic vs Film versions in that comic Tony always ends up being self centered in some way (nature of comics I'd guess) but MCU Tony is primarily driven by his past mistakes and trying to correct/atone for them (as oppossed to just because he can). Pepper is 100% who he cares for most though.
 

PandaShake

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,458
I really enjoyed it, but it didn't have the same production value as other marvel movies. Many of the set pieces look cheap and scenes feel rushed. The first ambush scene looked like a Star Trek TV set with fog machine. Lots of barely detailed rooms like the last shot of Ronan looking out the spaceship at Marvel in a badly painted blue room. The most cinematic fight sequence by Marvel was the one shown in the trailer. The movie itself was great, and scenes with Fury were excellent. Overall a good time.
 

Thequietone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,052
Comic Tony, maybe, but MCU Tony would undoubtedly see Pepper. There's a measurable difference in Comic vs Film versions in that comic Tony always ends up being self centered in some way (nature of comics I'd guess) but MCU Tony is primarily driven by his past mistakes and trying to correct/atone for them (as oppossed to just because he can). Pepper is 100% who he cares for most though.
Except you don't see who you care about the most, you see who you respect or admire the most. That's why I think it'd be either Cap or Tony's father. I take back my initial post about seeing himself.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Except you don't see who you care about the most, you see who you respect or admire the most. That's why I think it'd be either Cap or Tony's father. I take back my initial post about seeing himself.

I don't think Tony is as clear cut as that. Cap he has a professional respect for but not in the way one sees a mentor. That would require Tony be willing to defer to Cap, which he almost never does. Likewise with his Father, who he had a tumultuous relationship with that he regrets, but never really looked up to. I still feel like Pepper is the one Tony most admires in this regard as she's the only person Tony ever willingly defers to. He has her run Stark Industries almost unilaterally and she is the only reason why he battles with the idea of hanging up the suit. Nothing and no one else even gives him pause when the urge to atone drives him. Not even his own mistakes through previous hubris (Ultron) prevents him from charging forward with hubris again (Civil War). But Pepper does.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,687
Massachusetts
Finally caught up with this as a matinee. Wanted to get it in before seeing Endgame.

Overall I enjoyed it as much as any of the mid-high tier Marvel movies. It's just about in the same league as Black Panther and Ragnarok. Definitely above Ant Man 2. Definitely below Infinity War and Winter Soldier.

My biggest pet peeves, as usual, are the little winks, nods, and other miscellaneous origin stuff. How the name Marvel comes into play. How Fury damages his eye. How the "Avengers" name became a thing. The way they changed Carol's suit colors. That all just seemed unnecessary.

Otherwise I had fun and I really enjoyed the visual effects. Brie Larson is charming and tough at the same time, which is great. I was able to buy their de-aging of other characters as well.

Carol going into full power mode during the climax was VERY hype and I honestly have no background with this character. Just a good moment.

Happy with it, especially as an origin story.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
I've been burning through all the MCU movies in the last three weeks to try and catch Endgame in the cinema. So this was the last one and having recently watched most the films it was kinda meh compared to most of them. Note: I skipped Thor 2: Dark World (:o). Even Ant Man 2 pipped it at the post. Black Panther, GotG (1/2), Thor Ragnarok and Infinity War being my favourites I think.

Although it seemed to pick up steam near the end. And I am looking forward to her in the films as I like her character, it will be fun seeing her interact with the others.

In the run up to the film I seen some nail-biting and frothing around the net about "feminism" wrecking this movie. Not wanting spoilers I ignored it all, but after watching the film I'm completely lost as to what the issue was, anyone got a brief summary?

ENDGAME this weekend yey... :D No ENDGAME spoilers pls... :D
 

LL_Decitrig

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Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
In the run up to the film I seen some nail-biting and frothing around the net about "feminism" wrecking this movie. Not wanting spoilers I ignored it all, but after watching the film I'm completely lost as to what the issue was, anyone got a brief summary?

It was about something the actress Brie Larson said about wanting more than just white guys at her press events. Right wing nutjob twitter boiled over with rage, and lots of YouTube channels cashed in by predicting that Larson had killed the MCU's momentum singlehandedly.

A campaign was started targeting Rotten Tomatoes, prompting Rotten Tomatoes to change their website to combat it. Cue further outrage at the "liberal elites"for censoring the views of honest, god-fearing, right wing nutjobs.

Then the film launched and it was a roaring success. Cue right wing nutjob outrage at Disney cooking the audience figures and desperately buying tickets to salvage the film. It never ends. They never seem to notice that they're invariably wrong.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
It was about something the actress Brie Larson said about wanting more than just white guys at her press events. Right wing nutjob twitter boiled over with rage, and lots of YouTube channels cashed in by predicting that Larson had killed the MCU's momentum singlehandedly.

A campaign was started targeting Rotten Tomatoes, prompting Rotten Tomatoes to change their website to combat it. Cue further outrage at the "liberal elites"for censoring the views of honest, god-fearing, right wing nutjobs.

Then the film launched and it was a roaring success. Cue right wing nutjob outrage at Disney cooking the audience figures and desperately buying tickets to salvage the film. It never ends. They never seem to notice that they're invariably wrong.

lol. Thanks. Did they lose their shit of Black Panther as well? I've been on a MCU blackout for the last few years until I could catch up.
 

LL_Decitrig

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Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
lol. Thanks. Did they lose their shit of Black Panther as well? I've been on a MCU blackout for the last few years until I could catch up.

I don't recall quite such a prominent campaign against Black Panther, but at least one group of right wing nutjobs announced plans to tank Black Panther's Rotten Tomatoes ratings. The group was removed from Facebook and Rotten Tomatoes officially responded by saying that, while they respected the views of fans, they would not host hate speech.