[Unmarked Spoilers] Devil May Cry 5 - Spoiler Thread (It has begun...)

Oct 27, 2017
2,539
There is this weird sentence, that he brought Mundus down for his love's sake (dunno were it appeared right now, though. I guess in some of the ingame documents stuff?)
But it was always said he sealed him 2000 years ago and lived among humans from then on. They praised him first but started to forget until he turned into a myth. (They even used that for the story recap video.)
People would tell his storys, but as a fairytail, and only people like Arkham and Agnus would still know the truth.
In the prequel novel Matier made him sound like quite the womanizer, who forgot women's names fast. Eva musn't have been his first wife...
Yeah some things don't seem to add up, considering when Sparda sealed Temen-ni-Gru he sacrificed the blood of his wife, which would need to have lived 2000 years ago as well. Could very well be that Sparda had more than 1 wife in his life. Makes sense considering his lifespan was much longer than those of humans anyway.
If we ever get DLC or a sequel it's long overdue we finally meet Sparda. I always had the strong suspicion since his death is never addressed he did the same like Dante and Vergil and exiled himself in the demon world to prevent that demons coming after him would hurt those around him again.


On my second playthrough I realized level 16 has so many white orbs to give you more opportunities to practice with the freshly aquired Sin Devil Trigger. Didn't even use it that much in general and wondered about that the first time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,961
In regards to the Devil Bringer, is it able to reflect all the same stuff Gerbera can reflect? I'm tempted to try going back to fights like Goliath and see if I can throw back his giant meteor lumps with it, it would save me the hassle of micromanaging Devil Breakers.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,539
In regards to the Devil Bringer, is it able to reflect all the same stuff Gerbera can reflect? I'm tempted to try going back to fights like Goliath and see if I can throw back his giant meteor lumps with it, it would save me the hassle of micromanaging Devil Breakers.
I think it can only reflect melee attacks in contrast to Gerbera, which can also reflect ranged attacks, but I hardly use reflects myself because I'm bad at the timing, so I can't tell you for sure.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,094
Yeah some things don't seem to add up, considering when Sparda sealed Temen-ni-Gru he sacrificed the blood of his wife, which would need to have lived 2000 years ago as well. Could very well be that Sparda had more than 1 wife in his life. Makes sense considering his lifespan was much longer than those of humans anyway.
If we ever get DLC or a sequel it's long overdue we finally meet Sparda. I always had the strong suspicion since his death is never addressed he did the same like Dante and Vergil and exiled himself in the demon world to prevent that demons coming after him would hurt those around him again.


On my second playthrough I realized level 16 has so many white orbs to give you more opportunities to practice with the freshly aquired Sin Devil Trigger. Didn't even use it that much in general and wondered about that the first time.
Sparda didn't sacrifice his wife to seal the tower it was a "moral priestess" aka the ancestor of Lady.
 
Oct 25, 2017
361
I'm not sure to be honest. If my memory serves me right Arkham specifically said Sparda sacrificed his wife and I think Ladys blood only worked because she was a virgin or something? It's all a bit hazy.
Nah, it is like The Silver said. Arkham literally says "a mortal priestess" and goes on to explain that Lady and her mother were her progeny. Unlocking the tower needed both the blood of Spardas line and the line of the priestess.
 
Aside from the whole thing about Tom Cruise and Mackulay Culkin fighting atop a giant dandelion, anybody think it's weird that you never see Kyrie the whole game?
The faces were apparently very expensive to scan and model. Which makes me wonder why for practical reasons they didn’t save money by just using the same face for the hitherto identical twins. They could have had the twins identical, leaving room in the budget for a face for Kyrie. Or about twenty other weapons for Dante and a sombrero for Nero, if the face scanning is as expensive as it sounds.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,625
Aside from the whole thing about Tom Cruise and Mackulay Culkin fighting atop a giant dandelion, anybody think it's weird that you never see Kyrie the whole game?
Yeah, although strangely enough that one phone call has more personality than she did in 4. That said, other than environments the biggest low point of the game as the treatment of its female cast.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,539
The faces were apparently very expensive to scan and model. Which makes me wonder why for practical reasons they didn’t save money by just using the same face for the hitherto identical twins. They could have had the twins identical, leaving room in the budget for a face for Kyrie. Or about twenty other weapons for Dante and a sombrero for Nero, if the face scanning is as expensive as it sounds.
I thought all this photogrammetry stuff Capcom uses is so effective because it's simple?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,546
Finished it.

It's a great game, but some issues.

The level design isn't great or worth really talking about fondly. DMC1 this is not. Or DMC3. Especially the latter half - very same, same in a boring way.
The general visuals are so good. Character models look great, not-UK looks drab in a good way (though still boring after a while). The return of some enemies + music was Sick! Like the Nobodies chilling theme, or the remixed one for the Summons fight. And Nightmare. Woo boy. Vivid memories of those tunes! Surprised Ultra Violet didn't get a remix (or was it so different I didn't notice?) or the Brother's theme from DMC3, which was plenty good back then.

What I really, really do not like? Vergil's face/head. What was wrong with keeping him identical to Dante? Vergil's face looks puffy. No shape, nothing. The real model has some shape, actually. Idiot YouTubers put his face on thumbnails so I was spoiled with it, but hoped it was a joke. Very disappointed with his face.

Loved Neros DT, and it's very PS2-like to keep it for post-game rather than DLC or something. An actual quality reason to replay his missions.

King Cerberus scene was probably the best and funniest scenes for me. Or maybe the bitch slap on Dante. That was pretty funny too!

V - I didn't mind him, poetry aside. His style was interesting, and I'd be down for a return of the style. Maybe Vergil gets it, or someone else learns it.

Overall it was a great ride. Maybe not Bayonetta 2 fun for me, but still a good game.
 
Nov 14, 2017
7,588
i was thinking poor Sparda is no longer needed in this universe, when the biggest threat to the world was actually one of his own children, i thought he would continue to be this god figure because there is always the threat of the demon world, but with Mundus and Vergil gone who cares? ;P he was barely mentioned in the conclusion of the story, replaced by a fruit
Nero, Trish and Lady is enough to take care of the demon infestations, plot wise
 
Oct 27, 2017
711
The faces were apparently very expensive to scan and model. Which makes me wonder why for practical reasons they didn’t save money by just using the same face for the hitherto identical twins. They could have had the twins identical, leaving room in the budget for a face for Kyrie. Or about twenty other weapons for Dante and a sombrero for Nero, if the face scanning is as expensive as it sounds.
I actually love Vergil's new face and feel it suits him better than if they just copied over Dante's.
 
I'm not sure to be honest. If my memory serves me right Arkham specifically said Sparda sacrificed his wife and I think Ladys blood only worked because she was a virgin or something? It's all a bit hazy.
No, Arkham really speaks only about a mortal priestess. Not even a virgin. (Although I also have a vague memory of that priestess being a virgin. But whatever.) And her blood flows in Lady’s veins. Arkham married an ancestor of that priestress. I like to think, he did so on purpose. Spending all his life with demon research he found out about all that stuff and approached her. When he killed her for his experiments I assume he was trying to achieve things with her blood already, knowing he had a spare in the room next door.

You guys putting more effort into the story than Capcom
You have no fucking idea. -.-

Well, I admit it sometimes gives me a little blast, when I find another hole to bend their bollocks, but that’s not how it should be.

I didn't mean to come across as hostile either, my bad. I was just like "oh hey" lol
Let's hug! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,213
Yesterday one of my friends shared an interesting point of view about Vergil's split,i never thought about that possibility in my case.
He pretty much thinks that V is Vergil but like the real deal,not a part of his psyche or anything like that.
It's like the vergil thought 'ok im gonna split,be a full demon and leave my humanity behind' but he end up on the other side(V) instead of his demonic self.
Like his soul would pick a side(human or demon) randomly after the split and by his surprise he became V instead of Urizen.
And by leaving his demonic side,he gained insight about his actions.
The 'Thank You Nero' has more meaning that way since he has been fighting his way to Urizen with the help of his son.
That would also explain why Vergil feels less evilish after coming back imo.
I've never seen him being this less serious tbh,he is almost like dante in terms of personality.
'Where did u learn to count!? We're even!
That's riiiight!
Don't you dare to say it!
The guy never said anything 'power this,power that' since he came back,instead he was reflecting about his life and Dante's in the top of the tree.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,689
So what happened between Dante killing Nelo Vergil in DMC1 and this game?
How did he come back? He was falling to pieces so he went and got his arm back and split himself into two and that fixed him?
I don't get it
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,258
I think the story itself, out of the context of the game, is actually pretty good for what it is, but it's told in a messy way. The more I discuss it and tell other people my take on it in my own words, the more I'm fond of it, even if my first feelings after finishing the game were of disappointment.

Doesn't help that I didn't get the post-credits scene the first time around, the Jackpot scene is a much more satisfying ending.

Just the concept of Vergil wanting to leave his humanity behind but suddenly finding out that 99% of what makes him who he is was this humanity is so damn good. That he didn't leave "this other guy" behind, he left himself (though a softer version of himself) and a mindless power-hungry demon went after power.

It's kind of bullshit that it took him THIS long to finally understand that his humanity doesn't make him weak, that it makes him better, but the way he realized that is really cool.

Another example is the whole "visions of his time as Nelo Angelo" thing. It's fantastic as an idea, but the chicken just tells you this. It should be told in a more visual way throughout mission 18, I feel. But I agree that we should probably play that as Nero, not Dante.

The key thing is that most of our issues with the story would be fixed with tweaks, not necessarily rewriting the whole thing and throwing the concept away. That's probably what makes me think there's a good story in there, it was just poorly executed. But they need a better writer for that, because the cutscenes are so incredible in this game, that you can't say they ran out of time or had to rush the story. This is definitely not an FFXV situation, they just need someone who can organize and edit that story in a better way.

So what happened between Dante killing Nelo Vergil in DMC1 and this game?
How did he come back? He was falling to pieces so he went and got his arm back and split himself into two and that fixed him?
I don't get it
I don't think the split fixed him, but the blood Urizen was absorbing, as well as the fruit. The split bought him enough time, I guess, but V was still deteriorating, because he wasn't absorbing any power.

But I don't quite remember the dialogue from when he healed in the boss rush portion, so I can't remember if they say something that contradicts my interpretation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,466
It's not that the technology is expensive, its that the cost of hiring models as well as having custom clothes designed is what eats the budget. Plus the camera cost on top of that
This is why they needed to get someone to pay them to put their clothes in the game for product placement alt costumes again.



Though it might come with the Uniqlo logo plastered all over the DMC van...

Seriously.
That first middle finger to DT is one of the greatest moments of this gen and the music helped so much with that.
 
Dec 13, 2017
881
Everything about that sequence, the music, DT reveal, etc. had me sitting there with the biggest shit-eating grin of all time. Never felt a sudden burst of "fuck me I am motivated" in my life playing a game.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,047
I don't think the split fixed him, but the blood Urizen was absorbing, as well as the fruit. The split bought him enough time, I guess, but V was still deteriorating, because he wasn't absorbing any power.

But I don't quite remember the dialogue from when he healed in the boss rush portion, so I can't remember if they say something that contradicts my interpretation.
I think V was deteriorating more BECAUSE of the split rather than because of lasting damage from before it. The two needed to be reunited because they were incomplete beings, and part of Urizen's reason for getting the fruit was to gain its power so he wouldn't NEED V to be part of him in order to keep functioning.

It was selfishness vs. selflessness.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,258
I think V was deteriorating more BECAUSE of the split rather than because of lasting damage from before it. The two needed to be reunited, and part of Urizen's reason for getting the fruit was to gain its power so he wouldn't NEED V to be part of him in order to keep functioning.

It was selfishness vs. selflessness.
Makes sense, but what do you think was the cause of Vergil's deterioration, if it's unrelated? And also, do you believe he would be ok if they just instantly merged again?

EDIT: Wait, what if it was the nightmares from his time as Nelo Angelo, the after effects of that could be the cause of his corruption, right?

That explains why V is still deteriorating too, considering they were hanging with him instead of Urizen. Vergil thought it was his weak human side holding him back, but I think the Nelo Angelo stuff fits with everything, including why losing his pets lets him heal before getting them back.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,047
Makes sense, but what do you think was the cause of Vergil's deterioration, if it's unrelated? And also, do you believe he would be ok if they just instantly merged again?
I think the deterioration was caused by his original resurrection after dying as Nelo Angelo. He came back wrong as a result of what Mundus did to him, essentially. If they had just immediately merged again though, I imagine they still would've been in the same state they were before the split. Vergil needed to do something to heal, and the split was more to free himself from the burden of conscience, so that he could finally get himself to a place where no one could ever hurt him again. He just didn't realize that doing so would create two beings that wound up diametrically opposed to each other.

I get the sense from their characterizations and general writing that V and Urizen are essentially entities borne OF Vergil rather than literally half of Vergil split down the middle, if that makes sense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,466
Makes sense, but what do you think was the cause of Vergil's deterioration, if it's unrelated? And also, do you believe he would be ok if they just instantly merged again?
The ambiguity is him "suffering defeat after defeat" - it makes sense that being converted into Angelo, dying and pulling himself back together would push him past his limits (he may not even have been designed to last as Angelo - we only see Trish and Lady imprisoned for one month and that took a fair bit out of them - even with Vergil being much stronger Mundus would have probably just viewed him as a disposable weapon) - but the way it's said it almost implies Dante and Vergil fought a few times after that.

I think it's just referencing his time as Angelo permanently damaging him, but the time gap between 1 and 5 still makes that weird.
 
Dec 13, 2017
881
Are there any canonical references to what happened right after Nelo Angelo was defeated in DMC1? We know fragments of the armor that I presume was shattered as part of the "defeat" were found by the Order which led to the Bianco Angelo creations in DMC4 but what else happened (more specifically to Vergil)? The Vergil we see initially is I guess the immediate result of no longer being Nelo Angelo and the armor of control being destroyed but the years leading up to DMC5 are a long time for zombie-esque Vergil to shuffle around.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,466
Are there any canonical references to what happened right after Nelo Angelo was defeated in DMC1? We know fragments of the armor that I presume was shattered as part of the "defeat" were found by the Order which led to the Bianco Angelo creations in DMC4 but what else happened (more specifically to Vergil)? The Vergil we see initially is I guess the immediate result of no longer being Nelo Angelo and the armor of control being destroyed but the years leading up to DMC5 are a long time for zombie-esque Vergil to shuffle around.
They haven't really said anything about what happened to Vergil himself up until the flashback to him splitting himself up right before 5, which is why the gap feels weird.

Given how there's no body after he explodes, maybe he was literally crawling around hell as a torso trying to stitch himself together for 13 years.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,047
We don't, which is why the gap feels weird.

Given how there's no body after he explodes, maybe he was literally crawling around hell as a torso trying to stitch himself together for 13 years.
It's especially weird because Cav Angelo is confirmed in-game to be a Mundus creation - a suit of animated armor designed to be powered by the strength of an internal host - so perhaps they've kind of retconned it to be that Nelo was more like that, and when he "exploded", Vergil woke up in the Demon Realm completely goddamn ruined?

Either that or as a result of being under Mundus' control for way longer than Trish/Lady were under Urizen's, it took way longer for him to regain his sense of self and his body broke down from lack of self-care.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,258
They haven't really said anything about what happened to Vergil himself up until the flashback to him splitting himself up right before 5, which is why the gap feels weird.

Given how there's no body after he explodes, maybe he was literally crawling around hell as a torso trying to stitch himself together for 13 years.
Never Dead 2 featuring Vergil from the Devil May Cry series?

I'd play it.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,763

Replaying Mission 20 for eternity thanks to this OST.
I’m obsessed with this song. DMC5’s OST is truly one of the best of the generation. Second only to Nier: Automata to my ears.

Silver Bullet, Voltaic Knight, Devil Trigger, Nico’s theme, that violin theme (Urizen’s or Vergil’s?). So damn great.

The only thing I would change is Dante’s out-of-character combat theme. At this point in his life, “YOU CANNOT KILL ME!” death metal growling is not really his vibe. Maybe circa DMC3 or even 2, but not now.

On a completely unrelated note, DMC5 low key rivals God of War 4's claim to the title of Best Dad and his Very Good Boy. We love a redemption story that hinges on arm ripping and katana impaling. What a family.

But for real, no one can tell me you didn't get warm fuzzy overload from the menu scenes of Vergil hanging out in Nico's van with the other Sparda boys. One of the game's best highlights, not even kidding.

Everything about that sequence, the music, DT reveal, etc. had me sitting there with the biggest shit-eating grin of all time. Never felt a sudden burst of "fuck me I am motivated" in my life playing a game.
Yeah, that sequence has got to be one of the best examples of everything coming together in a game. I expected the ending to be cool, but I never thought the final chapter would hit such a stellar peak of absolute hype.

To play that chapter directly after Dante's insane Vergil fight is white hot magic.
 
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Nov 14, 2017
7,588
I think the story itself, out of the context of the game, is actually pretty good for what it is, but it's told in a messy way. The more I discuss it and tell other people my take on it in my own words, the more I'm fond of it, even if my first feelings after finishing the game were of disappointment.

Doesn't help that I didn't get the post-credits scene the first time around, the Jackpot scene is a much more satisfying ending.

Just the concept of Vergil wanting to leave his humanity behind but suddenly finding out that 99% of what makes him who he is was this humanity is so damn good. That he didn't leave "this other guy" behind, he left himself (though a softer version of himself) and a mindless power-hungry demon went after power.

It's kind of bullshit that it took him THIS long to finally understand that his humanity doesn't make him weak, that it makes him better, but the way he realized that is really cool.

Another example is the whole "visions of his time as Nelo Angelo" thing. It's fantastic as an idea, but the chicken just tells you this. It should be told in a more visual way throughout mission 18, I feel. But I agree that we should probably play that as Nero, not Dante.

The key thing is that most of our issues with the story would be fixed with tweaks, not necessarily rewriting the whole thing and throwing the concept away. That's probably what makes me think there's a good story in there, it was just poorly executed. But they need a better writer for that, because the cutscenes are so incredible in this game, that you can't say they ran out of time or had to rush the story. This is definitely not an FFXV situation, they just need someone who can organize and edit that story in a better way.


I don't think the split fixed him, but the blood Urizen was absorbing, as well as the fruit. The split bought him enough time, I guess, but V was still deteriorating, because he wasn't absorbing any power.

But I don't quite remember the dialogue from when he healed in the boss rush portion, so I can't remember if they say something that contradicts my interpretation.
The plot itself was pretty simple but im not a fan of how it was told, it was too much JUNE 19, MARCH, JUNE AGAIN etc.etc. it was getting annoying, im not sure why it was so neccessary, and not mjch interesting happens except the fight with Urizen and the ending
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,258
The plot itself was pretty simple but im not a fan of how it was told, it was too much JUNE 19, MARCH, JUNE AGAIN etc.etc. it was getting annoying, im not sure why it was so neccessary, and not mjch interesting happens except the fight with Urizen and the ending
I can agree with that. It was especially annoying at the start of the game. Prologue with no arm, flash forward with the breaker, flash back losing the buster. Felt like too much at times, for no real gain. The game wasn't even trying to pretend it wasn't Vergil who took Nero's arm either.

It's not like Memento where the disjointed timeline works as a strong storytelling tool, it's more like Beyond: Two Souls, where it feels like they just shifted things around for no reason. But less annoying than Beyond, because there weren't as many tonal shifts.

But for real, no one can tell me you didn't get warm fuzzy overload from the menu scenes of Vergil hanging out in Nico's van with the other Sparda boys. One of the game's best highlights, not even kidding.
The combat is so damn good that it's easy to find ourselves just talking about it and ignoring the rest, but I truly loved all of these small touches. I spent a lot of time in the gallery, waited to see all of the camera shifts for every pre-mission screen and things like that. They do add a lot.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,047
The plot itself was pretty simple but im not a fan of how it was told, it was too much JUNE 19, MARCH, JUNE AGAIN etc.etc. it was getting annoying, im not sure why it was so neccessary, and not mjch interesting happens except the fight with Urizen and the ending
Yeah, the structure of the plot was annoying. I think the game needed to do a little bit less retreading and a little more worldbuilding and character building. I still didn't feel like I KNEW V by the time he fused back into Vergil.