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NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,769
So real talk I never noticed the Qliphoth wasn't actually grown by Vergil's own hand, it's just a thing that "happens" every hundreds or so years (and is how Mundus got his power). They really don't make a good job explaining that in the game. But while it makes sense as to why Vergil finds the tree to be a distraction and agrees to cut it off, it makes Vergil's actions in DMC5 come across as excusable through technicality; he never murdered any innocents in this game - he just sat on a chair and sucked up human blood.

Which is honestly all kinds of fucking hilarious.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
I wonder what Nero's going to have to stab himself in the chest with in another few games' time when he needs to hit Devil Trigger 3 to beat a new world-ending threat? His own demon arm?

Maybe Nero needs a motivational phonecall from Kyrie to access his next power level.
 

Metroidfan09

Member
Jan 10, 2019
408
England
Just finished it! atm it's tied between 3 and this at the top, this game sure gets monotonous during the latter half chapters, didn't really enjoy the platforming bits which I feel DmC did better also the game surely picks up the difficulty on the last boss fight, my button bashing tactics didn't seem to work vs Vergil haha, Nero and Dante are the GOATs in Character action games thus far but imo can see Bayo 3 maybe dethroning it, excited to see what they do with a DMC6 hopefully it doesn't take another '11 years' will now do Claires Side B before coming back to this to tackle Sparda difficulty.

9/10
 
So real talk I never noticed the Qliphoth wasn't actually grown by Vergil's own hand, it's just a thing that "happens" every hundreds or so years (and is how Mundus got his power). They really don't make a good job explaining that in the game. But while it makes sense as to why Vergil finds the tree to be a distraction and agrees to cut it off, it makes Vergil's actions in DMC5 come across as excusable through technicality; he never murdered any innocents in this game - he just sat on a chair and sucked up human blood.

Which is honestly all kinds of fucking hilarious.
Not quite. The tree was always there, only the fruit appeared every X years. After Sparda defeated Mundus and separated the worlds, the tree never bore a fruit again. Now there is a new portal between the worlds, and the tree starts to grow a new one. So someone must have created this portal for the tree.
The further question would be, how much of that was Vergil's plan from the beginning.
He holds onto his life, just because he wants to beat Dante, so in order to gain more power and not die, he splits himself. Urizen then goes to the tree, but we don't know how Vergil knew about the tree. If that was really the next step in his plan, split himself and get the fruit. We don't know how V knows about all the actions Urizen is taking, and how he knows about the tree.
And so on and so on. They don't make a good job in explaining a lot of things.
There are also a lot of sentences and smaller scenes I just really don't get at all, what they should tell me.

After rewatching I'm still getting the most angry around the final reveal from V to Nero that Urizen is Vergil. They tried to play hide and seek with us before, leading to strange dialouges and actions to keep the mystery. After the last drop of info is dropped, they are suddenly using clear names the whole time. Now Dante starts to talk a little bit to Urizen and runs far to late towards him, to hinder him from eating the fruit. (Too little too late.) The whole logic behind Vergil's motivation isn't sound at all, how he thinks Eva abandoned him and envys Dante's life. Dante addressing the Eva issue to Vergil comes kinda out of the blue. How does he know about this being Vergil's motive? Something V might have told him?
And then their determination to kill each other. V says, they were always at odds regarding their very existence and thus must fight. This is never ever addressed in DMC3.
Dante never knew why Vergil wanted Sparda. He has to stop him, because the damage would be too great, not because they have always been rivals.
The ending then is rushed as fuck anyway.

What's up with the XX:XX AM/PM anyway? Just type 20:06 instead wtf.
As a european media has taught me, americans are easily confused by the 24 hours system. Dunno. ^^
 

Carbonox

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,603
Not gonna lie, as much as it doesn't technically make sense as Nero did have a human arm from the start, I'd have loved it if his arm grew back as the Devil Bringer. A nice reflection of the 1/4 Sparda ancestry from a design standpoint and just cos I like the look of the arm too. It's also a distinguishing feature of the character (aside from the hairstyle) to the others.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
39-1552753701-698324575.jpeg

LOL
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,300
It pains me to say this but as incredible as the combat is the level design, pacing and location variety is making replaying this game on different difficulties a real chore. When I'm in the moment to moment combat it's a 10/10 but these levels suck all the life out the game.

Bloody Palace can't come soon enough.
 

FiXalaS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
Kuwait.
It pains me to say this but as incredible as the combat is the level design, pacing and location variety is making replaying this game on different difficulties a real chore. When I'm in the moment to moment combat it's a 10/10 but these levels suck all the life out the game.

Bloody Palace can't come soon enough.

On my 3rd playthrough now here.

I think the really boring missions other than the prologue ones are 14-15-16. Otherwise I'm loving it all
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,381
Looking through my notes I just realized, Capcom fucked up the dates a bit, they're showing. :o
When Dante & Co walk towards Urizen for the first time, it says 15 May 04:44 PM.
When Nero joins it jumps to 16 May 08:06 PM.
Making the fight last more than a whole day... It should be 16 May from the beginning, Dante fights for 3 hours until Nero arrives, as the novel says.
V recruited Dante 03 May 08:08 PM. And I wonder a bit, why they waited nearly two weeks until they went against Urizen. Yeah, give him time to gather strength, what could possibly go wrong? :P
Remember they didn't just walk straight into Urizen's throne room. Dante, Lady, and Trish all spent time getting there. Or wait do you mean when they finally reach him?
 
Yeah but why not just type it as 6:06 PM then? This way everyone gets confused.
But that's what they're doing? I'm sorry, I can't follow right now. D:
Remember they didn't just walk straight into Urizen's throne room. Dante, Lady, and Trish all spent time getting there. Or wait do you mean when they finally reach him?
When they enter the tree and V ditches them, it says 15 May. They need about 3 hours to get to Urizen, but the date is put to 16 May, when Nero comes in. They would spend more than a day in the tree, that's insane.
Shiiiit. XD
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
But that's what they're doing? I'm sorry, I can't follow right now. D:

When they enter the tree and V ditches them, it says 15 May. They need about 3 hours to get to Urizen, but the date is put to 16 May, when Nero comes in. They would spend more than a day in the tree, that's insane.

Shiiiit. XD
They're typing XX:XX PM instead of X:XX PM which makes no sense to me. Maybe it's a thing I've just not seen before?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,381
When they enter the tree and V ditches them, it says 15 May. They need about 3 hours to get to Urizen, but the date is put to 16 May, when Nero comes in. They would spend more than a day in the tree, that's insane.
I mean spending more than a day in the tree makes sense considering that V leaves to where Nero is, and then comes all the way back. Compared to all of that happening in only three hours lol.
 

Prolepro

Ghostwire: BooShock
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
7,310
So Nero's base DT is stronger than SDT Dante AND Vergil, making him basically stronger than Sparda ever was since SDT Dante is stronger than Sparda... AND stronger than any Underworld king since SDT Vergil is technically a completed version of Fruity Urizen.

We DBZ rules now?
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,722
So Nero's base DT is stronger than SDT Dante AND Vergil, making him basically stronger than Sparda ever was since SDT Dante is stronger than Sparda...

We DBZ rules now?
No we don't know if he's actually stronger. Nero showing up to bitch slap both of them was essentially the same as the Arkham situation when he beat both of them down after they fought and wore each other out.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
So Nero's base DT is stronger than SDT Dante AND Vergil, making him basically stronger than Sparda ever was since SDT Dante is stronger than Sparda...

We DBZ rules now?

Nah.

Nero isn't as strong as either of them. Dante with Sin DT and DSD is most likely the peak of the Sparda bloodline in terms of raw power.

Vergil only lost to him because he was already washed up from his fight with Dante.
 
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Kishido

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,488
So Nero's base DT is stronger than SDT Dante AND Vergil, making him basically stronger than Sparda ever was since SDT Dante is stronger than Sparda...

We DBZ rules now?

Yes yes not taking into account that Dante and Vergil have fought before and both stopped and turned back into normal right after Nero jumped in.

Further more what is Base DT? Maybe it is his Sin DT as well?

Vergil his DT in the library is simply filled DT as well
 

Hystzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,400
Manchester UK
So was thinking about Vs tattoos are they his binding spells that mundus placed on his soul to control him as Nero Angelo. He also has Griffin Nightmares and Shadows soul binding also so they be all loyal to Mundus. Griffin says they are Vergil's nightmares from being under control so if V is in a way Vergil's soul then I assume the tattoos are Mundus binding on his soul still existing
 

Prolepro

Ghostwire: BooShock
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
7,310
But DT Vergil stopped BOTH SDT twins in their tracks, and we know Base Nero is stronger than regular DT Dante (he actually got a hit on Urizen when DT Dante couldnt even land a scratch) so it stands to reason DT Nero could at least go toe to toe with SDT Dante. Just because Vergil was already fighting Dante doesnt mean Nero had that much of an advantage if SDT is as powerful as it implies, especially Vergil's. DT Nero still wiped the floor with SDT Vergil. Vergil admits he lost when he says "I won't lose next time."

Im just saying we're working with some half-saiyan logic here.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Base Nero is stronger than regular DT Dante (he actually got a hit on Urizen when DT Dante couldnt even land a scratch)

That's more just the game's writing then anything really.

Dante with his regular DT and 2 of the most powerful devil arms at the time ( Sparda and Rebellion) couldn't do anything to him yet Nero with a basic ass human designed sword ''scrached'' him.

Which is funny because Urizen's barrier is the Yamato itself which no regular sword shoud be able to cut thorugh.

The game has rules that doesn't respect themselves. One of them is the ending itself which is pretty dumb.

Vergil: We'll seal away the portal with the Yamato
Nero: Wait, if you do that you can't come back!

Surpise, but they can back anytime since it was made clear in the novel and in the game that the Yamato can open up portals at will and allow for travel.
 

Prolepro

Ghostwire: BooShock
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
7,310
That's more just the game's writing then anything really.

Dante with his regular DT and 2 of the most powerful devil arms at the time ( Sparda and Rebellion) couldn't do anything to him yet Nero with a basic ass human designed sword ''scrached'' him.

Which is funny because Urizen's barrier is the Yamato itself which no regular sword shoud be able to cut thorugh.
Dang I didnt even think of that.

This is taking me back to gradeschool powerlevel arguments.
 

BigWinnie1

Banned
Feb 19, 2018
2,757
But DT Vergil stopped BOTH SDT twins in their tracks, and we know Base Nero is stronger than regular DT Dante (he actually got a hit on Urizen when DT Dante couldnt even land a scratch) so it stands to reason DT Nero could at least go toe to toe with SDT Dante. Just because Vergil was already fighting Dante doesnt mean Nero had that much of an advantage if SDT is as powerful as it implies, especially Vergil's. DT Nero still wiped the floor with SDT Vergil. Vergil admits he lost when he says "I won't lose next time."

Im just saying we're working with some half-saiyan logic here.

Not really. Its an Arkamn Situation again. Dante and Vergil were up there kicking each others asses for a bit of time and going hard at each other before Nero showed up fresh.

The way Dante is now I doubt Nero could beat him. Nero is strong but Dante's devil handicap is that he has always downplayed and been depressed by his demonic side. Its why he slides into his moods like he does and why he isolates himself all the time. He is a nice guy who believes himself a monster because he watched demons rip apart his mother from behind some shutters and never really came to terms with it.

Basically Dante finally broke his final limiter by finally fusing with his demonic blood. Vergil had to eat the fruit to forcefully do what Dante did. Nero DT is strong but its pointed out at the end of the fight that he still isn't on their level even after he beats up his pops.
 

BigWinnie1

Banned
Feb 19, 2018
2,757
That's more just the game's writing then anything really.

Dante with his regular DT and 2 of the most powerful devil arms at the time ( Sparda and Rebellion) couldn't do anything to him yet Nero with a basic ass human designed sword ''scrached'' him.

Which is funny because Urizen's barrier is the Yamato itself which no regular sword shoud be able to cut thorugh.

The game has rules that doesn't respect themselves. One of them is the ending itself which is pretty dumb.

Vergil: We'll seal away the portal with the Yamato
Nero: Wait, if you do that you can't come back!

Surpise, but they can back anytime since it was made clear in the novel and in the game that the Yamato can open up portals at will and allow for travel.

Yeah it might take some time to find and cut the roots again but they will be back and Probably try and kill each other because Dante and Vergil love to fight
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
They're typing XX:XX PM instead of X:XX PM which makes no sense to me. Maybe it's a thing I've just not seen before?

Japan has weird time measurements. For instance, its not that strange to see them have opening hours of "28 hours a day" on shop doors, because Japanese days traditionally begin at dawn break, not midnight, so the hours of darkness still count for the previous day. To make it worse, nobody uses this casually to measure time, its just used in specific circumstances.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
I mean, Vergil does say "I won't lose next time." So he knows he'll come back eventually.
Nero just sounds worried. Or he just doesn't understand the Yamato.
 
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Boya

Member
Jan 1, 2018
715
I take the logic as if you use the Yamato to seal the portal you'd have to remove the seal again if you want to use the Yamato to travel back.
 

alpha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,012
Nero DT is strong but its pointed out at the end of the fight that he still isn't on their level even after he beats up his pops.

Where does the game point this out? If you mean the backhand at the end when they go to leave, Nero's not even remotely trying to fight them at that moment so it's not a great example at all.

From the way it was presented, I absolutely think they're implying Nero can run with Dante and Vergil at this point. Not both of them at once, but in a one-on-one situation he could still have a shot to win even against a fresh Dante or Vergil.

I think it's like Tekken at this point, where even though Devil Jin is stronger than than Heihachi and likely Devil Kaz, it could go either way if any of them were to fight each other.
 

SenseiX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,783
Where does the game point this out? If you mean the backhand at the end when they go to leave, Nero's not even remotely trying to fight them at that moment so it's not a great example at all.

Not both of them at once, but in a one-on-one situation he could still have a shot to win even against a fresh Dante or Vergil.
1/2 Devil blood > 1/4 Devil blood