• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.

[UNMARKED SPOILERS] Kingdom Hearts III - Spoiler Thread

Nov 1, 2017
9,477
I'd say Larx was kind off redeemed, but still a bitch to Sora. Albeit it felt like she was being a tease to him

YX was a "Eat shit, you just doomed yourself and I'll just go chill on my time" for sure
Larxene literally expressed no regrets or improvement in persona. Y'all really trying to stretch redemption.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,871
I just wanted the scene to properly showcase that he was a bad dude with a deserved end. The whole scene could've played out exactly the same and just had him fading into darkness and I would've been more satisfied.

Like I said, the dialogue supports that he needed to fade away, but the framing of the scene makes it look like he's in control of the whole thing and he made the decision to be a good guy - not that Sora and company actually won in the end.
He's an old man entrenched in his beliefs, which at this point everyone else knows are wrong. Eraqus shows up and convinces him to take the L. If he hadn't, Xehanort would have just faded away, howling and bitter, but Eraqus is too pure to let that happen.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
He's an old man entrenched in his beliefs, which at this point everyone else knows are wrong. Eraqus shows up and convinces him to take the L. If he hadn't, Xehanort would have just faded away, howling and bitter, but Eraqus is too pure to let that happen.
Pretty much. You would've got the shot of him bursting into a heart and fading away either way, but they needed to fire that Chekhov's Gun of the Eraqus shard in Terra.

If X just faded into darkness like Vanitas the implication would've just been that he's coming back again later.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
He's an old man entrenched in his beliefs, which at this point everyone else knows are wrong. Eraqus shows up and convinces him to take the L. If he hadn't, Xehanort would have just faded away, howling and bitter, but Eraqus is too pure to let that happen.
I mean, I don't really see any reason why he couldn't have faded away, muttering under his breath about the heroes causing their own demise. Eraqus didn't really need to show up either, he had a pretty satisfying ending in BBS before they needlessly set up some sort of return for him in Blank Points.

Like, it's ultimately a minor thing. It just draws my ire that they've got so many animators working with them and so many examples of how to edit a scene like that to show that the heroes were in the right and ultimately deserve to be shown more respect in the framing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,393
Another question for the lore experts.

So why is Ventus in that Union X game? I thought was way in the past? Also the MoM stuff, the Keyblade War, and so on. Wasn't that in the past? The Dandelions? Yet it seems the Foretellers are alive in well, time traveling lol. And obviously the MoM is alive.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
I mean, I don't really see any reason why he couldn't have faded away, muttering under his breath about the heroes causing their own demise. Eraqus didn't really need to show up either, he had a pretty satisfying ending in BBS before they needlessly set up some sort of return for him in Blank Points.
They set that up in BBS itself. He fell into Terra as he died the same way Kairi fell into Sora.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,580
Another question for the lore experts.

So why is Ventus in that Union X game? I thought was way in the past? Also the MoM stuff, the Keyblade War, and so on. Wasn't that in the past? The Dandelions? Yet it seems the Foretellers are alive in well, time traveling lol. And obviously the MoM is alive.
It seems like the new Union leaders traveled forward at some point but lost their memories in the process (Ven already was amnesiac when he first comes to Eraqus anyway, so this isn't really a retcon with him). Marluxia also only seems to be getting his memories back at the very end after losing to Sora, and Subject X is almost certainly Skuld.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
They set that up in BBS itself. He fell into Terra as he died the same way Kairi fell into Sora.
He also faded away around him in the process, which we didn't really see from Kairi.. Could've gone either way until Blank Points basically confirmed it.

It also would've given Terra more agency as a result - the whole Guardian struggling scene now has that spectre of "was Terra strong enough to fight back all this time, or was it just Eraqus."
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
He also faded away around him in the process, which we didn't really see from Kairi.. Could've gone either way until Blank Points basically confirmed it.

It also would've given Terra more agency as a result - the whole Guardian struggling scene now has that spectre of "was Terra strong enough to fight back all this time, or was it just Eraqus."
I think the guardian scene makes it pretty clear it was Terra, since Eraqus only shows up AFTER Terra's reclaimed himself.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
But the guardian was also totally under Terranort and Ansem SoD's control, except for the 3 seconds where it wasn't in DDD. Would the guardian have even existed without Eraqus being a sly fox and protecting Terra?
Yeah, almost definitely. The guardian was Terra's Heartless being enslaved by Xehanort. E might have helped a little bit, but it didn't exactly do much considering poor Terra got turned into a goddamn airship by Ansem SoD and didn't manage to reclaim even a sliver of agency until Terranort clashed with the Lingering Will.
 
Nov 1, 2017
9,477
She said that being defeated by Sora wasn't so bad, and that she only joined for the ride...With ????? (Marly obvs)
1. Because she didn't want to be a Xehanort vessel. She still treats sora like trash

2. Being along for the ride doesn't change her personality cause marluxia aint as big a dick as Larxene is to EVERYONE.


Lije if Sora meets her somebody, she wouldn't be like "Good to see you." She'd at best tell him to go kick rocks.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
Yeah, almost definitely. The guardian was Terra's Heartless being enslaved by Xehanort. E might have helped a little bit, but it didn't exactly do much considering poor Terra got turned into a goddamn airship by Ansem SoD and didn't manage to reclaim even a sliver of agency until Terranort clashed with the Lingering Will.
But now this goes all the way back to BBS, in Blank Points Xehanort questions why Terra still exists in any form until he recognizes Eraqus. And now that we know that Terra was the Guardian, it just makes us question how much was Terra fighting and how much was Eraqus just outplaying Xehanort.

Like, Luxu is clearly using the same trick, so why doesn't he have a guardian?
 
I've always been interested in KH as a franchise, but never really invested the time, so KH3 coming out seemed like the best time to do just that. I've played some of the games, but never finished them or invested myself in the story before, this time around I decided it's time to go all in.
I am a big FF fan and am into Disney/Pixar films, so it seemed like a natural thing for me to like, but now... I'm not so sure to be honest.

I was really put off by the treatment of female characters in the game and how it's overly complicated. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a complex story with time travel, doppelgangers, different worlds and all that. I'm all in for that, but the way KH3 dialogue was written felt like they were purposefully trying to make it seem even more complex than it is. A lot of time was spent explaining simple concepts like love and the power of friendship, while things like someone travelling back in time or someone being possessed or whatever was summed up in a single sentence using as many complex words as they could muster in there. It's just trying too hard a little at times. That's how I felt like anyway. There's many ways to convey a complex story in a simple way and none of them have been used here. More time was spent explaining simple things rather than the complex ones.

Also there's a big difference between characters. Some characters have fantastic arcs, stories, personalities and progression, while others are basically Kairi. Also wish we would've seen more of the other characters, I felt like this game was all about Sora, when some of the other characters are really interesting too, I would've liked to see more of them or played more as them. Also less cinematics, more gameplay, but that's really personal.
On the female character front, this game is probably the worst that they've ever been treated.

They were done decently in previous games.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
But now this goes all the way back to BBS, in Blank Points Xehanort questions why Terra still exists in any form until he recognizes Eraqus. And now that we know that Terra was the Guardian, it just makes us question how much was Terra fighting and how much was Eraqus just outplaying Xehanort.

Like, Luxu is clearly using the same trick, so why doesn't he have a guardian?
The Guardian didn't come into being specifically until Terranort used the keyblade to unlock his hearts. I imagine Luxu has a different method.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
The Guardian didn't come into being specifically until Terranort used the keyblade to unlock his hearts. I imagine Luxu has a different method.
Which is kind of the point - the worldbuilding remains haphazard and we can't speculate on what should be two characters doing the same thing because we'll just get a new rule on the spot, be it time travel that only helps the bad guy, or we can track anyone who wears an X on their shirt just because.

Which is fine, the nonsense main arc only ever exists as a reason to send the main character into the Disney vignettes and set up a big shonen fight scene at the end. I just wish they'd lean more on the Disney framing and iconography like they do with the heartless fight sequences rather than spend so long focusing on this other stuff.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,580
On the female character front, this game is probably the worst that they've ever been treated.

They were done decently in previous games.
Aqua definitely took a couple of lumps, but overall came out decently despite that one bit with Vanitas, and Xion was handled pretty well and got some cool moments. I would have preferred getting to see Aqua get a definitive win at some point in the final act, though.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
Which is kind of the point - the worldbuilding remains haphazard and we can't speculate on what should be two characters doing the same thing because we'll just get a new rule on the spot, be it time travel that only helps the bad guy, or we can track anyone who wears an X on their shirt just because.

Which is fine, the nonsense main arc only ever exists as a reason to send the main character into the Disney vignettes and set up a big shonen fight scene at the end. I just wish they'd lean more on the Disney framing and iconography like they do with the heartless fight sequences rather than spend so long focusing on this other stuff.
I mean, again, the thing is that the Guardian was specifically a result of Xehanort fucking up and using his keyblade on his own heart. If Luxu isn't dumb enough to do that, there's no reason to assume he would get a Guardian too. It wasn't a result of the POSSESSION, it was a result of the heart unlocking specifically.

Luxu fucking sucks and I hate him and everything around him, but this "two characters are doing the same thing so why isn't the result the same" argument doesn't work because they didn't actually do the same thing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
I mean, again, the thing is that the Guardian was specifically a result of Xehanort fucking up and using his keyblade on his own heart. If Luxu isn't dumb enough to do that, there's no reason to assume he would get a Guardian too. It wasn't a result of the POSSESSION, it was a result of the heart unlocking specifically.

Luxu fucking sucks and I hate him and everything around him, but this "two characters are doing the same thing so why isn't the result the same" argument doesn't work because they didn't actually do the same thing.
But there's the question - did Xehanort end up using the Keyblade on his own heart to get rid of Terra because Eraqus made him stronger and harder to overpower? Would he have drowned out Terra without Eraqus's interference? Is this just not an issue for Luxu because of that, or is he just better? Now we have all sorts of questions that wouldn't have come up if Eraqus was just gone.

Like, you can say the Keyblade is the reason why this all happens, but then we have to ask what drove him to that in the first place now that other characters have been pulling this trick for longer.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
But there's the question - did Xehanort end up using the Keyblade on his own heart to get rid of Terra because Eraqus made him stronger and harder to overpower? Would he have drowned out Terra without Eraqus's interference? Is this just not an issue for Luxu because of that?

Like, you can say the Keyblade is the reason why this all happens, but then we have to ask what drove him to that in the first place now that other characters have been pulling this trick for longer.
Terra was always stronger than Xehanort thought, and that was kind of the point. If Terra hadn't been such a strong fighter he would've just disappeared. And if X hadn't used the keyblade on himself at that moment Aqua probably would've SAVED him.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
Terra was always stronger than Xehanort thought, and that was kind of the point. If Terra hadn't been such a strong fighter he would've just disappeared. And if X hadn't used the keyblade on himself at that moment Aqua probably would've SAVED him.
And then the fight that follows includes Terra and Aqua fighting to overpower the guardian, so what was that about?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
You're misremembering.

Aqua fights terranort to a stand still.

Then in the second phase he summons the guardian.
And during that phase Terra shows up clearly struggling against the Guardian somehow and assists Aqua in defeating it, which just puts a big question mark on who was what all along. I can buy into whatever nonsense explanation they give us after the fact, my point is just that they've made it needlessly convoluted and change the rules on the fly.

Which is totally fine, again. The whole non-Disney story is just some connective tissue to give a reason for sending Sora and company into the Disney worlds to begin with. It took on a life of its own in the years leading up to 3 because of how many other stories they were trying to tell and tie together. It just remains jarring as hell that they set up this whole universe with weird rules and asspulls which gets contrasted with Disney proper where they can explain similar themes with fewer characters and less exposition dumps. Especially so when the series started with those themes at its core and was able to give Ansem SoD an ending like any other Disney villain.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,376
Costa Rica
1. Because she didn't want to be a Xehanort vessel. She still treats sora like trash

2. Being along for the ride doesn't change her personality cause marluxia aint as big a dick as Larxene is to EVERYONE.


Lije if Sora meets her somebody, she wouldn't be like "Good to see you." She'd at best tell him to go kick rocks.
Oh for sure. I'm just saying she's not a "FUCK I LOVE BEING EVIL" like Vanitas or YX
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
And during that phase Terra shows up clearly struggling against the Guardian somehow and assists Aqua in defeating it, which just puts a big question mark on who was what all along. I can buy into whatever nonsense explanation they give us after the fact, my point is just that they've made it needlessly convoluted and change the rules on the fly.
The guardian actually HELPS you during the fight if you do some reaction commands right. The implication is that Terra is inside of it and doing his best to resist but Xehanort's still overpowering him.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
The guardian actually HELPS you during the fight if you do some reaction commands right. The implication is that Terra is inside of it and doing his best to resist but Xehanort's still overpowering him.
When? It's been a hot minute since I've played it, but I can't recall a single instance where the guardian does anything other than attack, and I can't find any videos of it doing anything else.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
When? It's been a hot minute since I've played it, but I can't recall a single instance where the guardian does anything other than attack, and I can't find any videos of it doing anything else.
There's a couple spots during the fight where the Guardian paralyzes Terranort, giving you free hits on him. It doesn't damage him directly but it does stop him in his tracks so you can hit him a couple of times.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
Which is apparently wildly inconsistent and doesn't show at all?

Also here's another wrench to throw into it - when Riku assumes the form of Ansem SoD, he can summon a guardian. Who's that one?
I've been asking THAT question (re: Riku) ever since the end of the game, yeah. I could buy it when Ansem's heart (and thus Terra's as well) was straight-up inside of Riku, but in KH2 that's no longer a concern.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
I've been asking THAT question (re: Riku) ever since the end of the game, yeah. I could buy it when Ansem's heart (and thus Terra's as well) was straight-up inside of Riku, but in KH2 that's no longer a concern.
Right, it probably meant nothing significant until BBS came along and planted that particular idea in Nomura's head and he went running with it.

Which, like before, is fine. It made for a cool redemption scene and that's all that really matters. It's just when you start peeling back the layers and trying to think about how you could've read into it before, there's too many questions and too many unknowns. It feels totally out of place next to a Disney/Pixar gambit.

I wish they focused on fewer characters for longer so that they could have made that same scene with a better payoff, but it is what it is and here we are now.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,891
Right, it probably meant nothing significant until BBS came along and planted that particular idea in Nomura's head and he went running with it.

Which, like before, is fine. It made for a cool redemption scene and that's all that really matters. It's just when you start peeling back the layers and trying to think about how you could've read into it before, there's too many questions and too many unknowns. It feels totally out of place next to a Disney/Pixar gambit.
I mean, that's the thing. The series has been going on for two decades. It's not logical or reasonable to compare a series of this many games to a villain's self-contained plot in ONE Disney or Pixar movie. If you spend a lot of time looking for holes you're always going to find some.

Hell, Thanos' entire plot in Infinity War is utterly stupid if you think about it for more than five seconds. And people love him!
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
I mean, that's the thing. The series has been going on for two decades. It's not logical or reasonable to compare a series of this many games to a villain's self-contained plot in ONE Disney or Pixar movie. If you spend a lot of time looking for holes you're always going to find some.

Hell, Thanos' entire plot in Infinity War is utterly stupid if you think about it for more than five seconds. And people love him!
I mean, I hate Thantos too. I know we were never going to get a simple story and a simple ending, it just isn't going to happen with Nomura at the helm. I just wish he'd let character arcs end instead of the constant "but before they were X they were..."

I just can't stop drawing the comparisons to Disney, because they're there by design. MX didn't need to be a 5D chess master... we could've just picked up his story in 3 without the additional baggage. The juxtaposition will always feel off, and it just doesn't have to be.

Sometimes I wonder if the games people keep calling spin-offs would be better if they actually were. Imagine if DDD didn't feature anyone we already know and was a completely separate story with its own new protagonist.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,871
I mean, I hate Thantos too. I know we were never going to get a simple story and a simple ending, it just isn't going to happen with Nomura at the helm. I just wish he'd let character arcs end instead of the constant "but before they were X they were..."

I just can't stop drawing the comparisons to Disney, because they're. MX didn't need to be a 5D chess master... we could've just picked up his story in 3 without the additional baggage. The juxtaposition will always feel off, and it just doesn't have to be.

Sometimes I wonder if the games people keep calling spin-offs would be better if they actually were. Imagine if DDD didn't feature anyone we already know and was a completely separate story with its own new protagonist.
Without Dream Drop Distance or 0.2, the plot of KH3 would be entirely different. Maybe that's what you'd prefer, but that's not reality.
 
Feb 1, 2018
740
Anyone else think it wouldve been more interesting if Nomura moved forward in time after KH2 instead of back in time ?

I always thought that BBS teaser would represent the future and not the past.

KH1 made sora to be such a unique entity in relation to the Keyblade, it makes for a better foundational story in and of itself.

I always thought that that KH2 teaser repredented what is going to happen( key blade wars) because people actually found a way to manually access and manipulate the power of key blades(Originally it chooses its user in an exclusive way like it did in KH1)

Anyone agrees with me ?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,301
Orlando, FL
Without Dream Drop Distance or 0.2, the plot of KH3 would be entirely different. Maybe that's what you'd prefer, but that's not reality.
Not necessarily? Would still be MX as the bad guy, would still have us saving Aqua, Ven and Terra. Just wouldn't need to involve more returning characters, random callbacks from Unchained and wouldn't have the arbitrary stuff that they made up to explain some of the asspulls from other games. Not having 0.2 doesn't really change anything other than us still not knowing why Mickey was half naked at the time.

But I know that's not reality. I've spent like two pages saying I accept Nomura's writing for what it is, I just wish it were better.