[UNMARKED SPOILERS] Kingdom Hearts III - Spoiler Thread

Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
You're misremembering.

Aqua fights terranort to a stand still.

Then in the second phase he summons the guardian.
And during that phase Terra shows up clearly struggling against the Guardian somehow and assists Aqua in defeating it, which just puts a big question mark on who was what all along. I can buy into whatever nonsense explanation they give us after the fact, my point is just that they've made it needlessly convoluted and change the rules on the fly.

Which is totally fine, again. The whole non-Disney story is just some connective tissue to give a reason for sending Sora and company into the Disney worlds to begin with. It took on a life of its own in the years leading up to 3 because of how many other stories they were trying to tell and tie together. It just remains jarring as hell that they set up this whole universe with weird rules and asspulls which gets contrasted with Disney proper where they can explain similar themes with fewer characters and less exposition dumps. Especially so when the series started with those themes at its core and was able to give Ansem SoD an ending like any other Disney villain.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,770
Costa Rica
1. Because she didn't want to be a Xehanort vessel. She still treats sora like trash

2. Being along for the ride doesn't change her personality cause marluxia aint as big a dick as Larxene is to EVERYONE.


Lije if Sora meets her somebody, she wouldn't be like "Good to see you." She'd at best tell him to go kick rocks.
Oh for sure. I'm just saying she's not a "FUCK I LOVE BEING EVIL" like Vanitas or YX
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
And during that phase Terra shows up clearly struggling against the Guardian somehow and assists Aqua in defeating it, which just puts a big question mark on who was what all along. I can buy into whatever nonsense explanation they give us after the fact, my point is just that they've made it needlessly convoluted and change the rules on the fly.
The guardian actually HELPS you during the fight if you do some reaction commands right. The implication is that Terra is inside of it and doing his best to resist but Xehanort's still overpowering him.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
The guardian actually HELPS you during the fight if you do some reaction commands right. The implication is that Terra is inside of it and doing his best to resist but Xehanort's still overpowering him.
When? It's been a hot minute since I've played it, but I can't recall a single instance where the guardian does anything other than attack, and I can't find any videos of it doing anything else.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
When? It's been a hot minute since I've played it, but I can't recall a single instance where the guardian does anything other than attack, and I can't find any videos of it doing anything else.
There's a couple spots during the fight where the Guardian paralyzes Terranort, giving you free hits on him. It doesn't damage him directly but it does stop him in his tracks so you can hit him a couple of times.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
Which is apparently wildly inconsistent and doesn't show at all?

Also here's another wrench to throw into it - when Riku assumes the form of Ansem SoD, he can summon a guardian. Who's that one?
I've been asking THAT question (re: Riku) ever since the end of the game, yeah. I could buy it when Ansem's heart (and thus Terra's as well) was straight-up inside of Riku, but in KH2 that's no longer a concern.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
I've been asking THAT question (re: Riku) ever since the end of the game, yeah. I could buy it when Ansem's heart (and thus Terra's as well) was straight-up inside of Riku, but in KH2 that's no longer a concern.
Right, it probably meant nothing significant until BBS came along and planted that particular idea in Nomura's head and he went running with it.

Which, like before, is fine. It made for a cool redemption scene and that's all that really matters. It's just when you start peeling back the layers and trying to think about how you could've read into it before, there's too many questions and too many unknowns. It feels totally out of place next to a Disney/Pixar gambit.

I wish they focused on fewer characters for longer so that they could have made that same scene with a better payoff, but it is what it is and here we are now.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
Right, it probably meant nothing significant until BBS came along and planted that particular idea in Nomura's head and he went running with it.

Which, like before, is fine. It made for a cool redemption scene and that's all that really matters. It's just when you start peeling back the layers and trying to think about how you could've read into it before, there's too many questions and too many unknowns. It feels totally out of place next to a Disney/Pixar gambit.
I mean, that's the thing. The series has been going on for two decades. It's not logical or reasonable to compare a series of this many games to a villain's self-contained plot in ONE Disney or Pixar movie. If you spend a lot of time looking for holes you're always going to find some.

Hell, Thanos' entire plot in Infinity War is utterly stupid if you think about it for more than five seconds. And people love him!
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
I mean, that's the thing. The series has been going on for two decades. It's not logical or reasonable to compare a series of this many games to a villain's self-contained plot in ONE Disney or Pixar movie. If you spend a lot of time looking for holes you're always going to find some.

Hell, Thanos' entire plot in Infinity War is utterly stupid if you think about it for more than five seconds. And people love him!
I mean, I hate Thantos too. I know we were never going to get a simple story and a simple ending, it just isn't going to happen with Nomura at the helm. I just wish he'd let character arcs end instead of the constant "but before they were X they were..."

I just can't stop drawing the comparisons to Disney, because they're there by design. MX didn't need to be a 5D chess master... we could've just picked up his story in 3 without the additional baggage. The juxtaposition will always feel off, and it just doesn't have to be.

Sometimes I wonder if the games people keep calling spin-offs would be better if they actually were. Imagine if DDD didn't feature anyone we already know and was a completely separate story with its own new protagonist.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,773
I mean, I hate Thantos too. I know we were never going to get a simple story and a simple ending, it just isn't going to happen with Nomura at the helm. I just wish he'd let character arcs end instead of the constant "but before they were X they were..."

I just can't stop drawing the comparisons to Disney, because they're. MX didn't need to be a 5D chess master... we could've just picked up his story in 3 without the additional baggage. The juxtaposition will always feel off, and it just doesn't have to be.

Sometimes I wonder if the games people keep calling spin-offs would be better if they actually were. Imagine if DDD didn't feature anyone we already know and was a completely separate story with its own new protagonist.
Without Dream Drop Distance or 0.2, the plot of KH3 would be entirely different. Maybe that's what you'd prefer, but that's not reality.
 
Feb 1, 2018
622
Anyone else think it wouldve been more interesting if Nomura moved forward in time after KH2 instead of back in time ?

I always thought that BBS teaser would represent the future and not the past.

KH1 made sora to be such a unique entity in relation to the Keyblade, it makes for a better foundational story in and of itself.

I always thought that that KH2 teaser repredented what is going to happen( key blade wars) because people actually found a way to manually access and manipulate the power of key blades(Originally it chooses its user in an exclusive way like it did in KH1)

Anyone agrees with me ?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
Without Dream Drop Distance or 0.2, the plot of KH3 would be entirely different. Maybe that's what you'd prefer, but that's not reality.
Not necessarily? Would still be MX as the bad guy, would still have us saving Aqua, Ven and Terra. Just wouldn't need to involve more returning characters, random callbacks from Unchained and wouldn't have the arbitrary stuff that they made up to explain some of the asspulls from other games. Not having 0.2 doesn't really change anything other than us still not knowing why Mickey was half naked at the time.

But I know that's not reality. I've spent like two pages saying I accept Nomura's writing for what it is, I just wish it were better.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
I mean, I hate Thantos too. I know we were never going to get a simple story and a simple ending, it just isn't going to happen with Nomura at the helm. I just wish he'd let character arcs end instead of the constant "but before they were X they were..."

I just can't stop drawing the comparisons to Disney, because they're there by design. MX didn't need to be a 5D chess master... we could've just picked up his story in 3 without the additional baggage. The juxtaposition will always feel off, and it just doesn't have to be.

Sometimes I wonder if the games people keep calling spin-offs would be better if they actually were. Imagine if DDD didn't feature anyone we already know and was a completely separate story with its own new protagonist.
There was no more story to tell after 2, though. Everything was kinda already wrapped up but people wanted a trilogy.
 

malyse

Community Resetter
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Not necessarily? Would still be MX as the bad guy, would still have us saving Aqua, Ven and Terra. Just wouldn't need to involve more returning characters, random callbacks from Unchained and wouldn't have the arbitrary stuff that they made up to explain some of the asspulls from other games. Not having 0.2 doesn't really change anything other than us still not knowing why Mickey was half naked at the time.

But I know that's not reality. I've spent like two pages saying I accept Nomura's writing for what it is, I just wish it were better.
You posited that the spin-offs be separate. Without BBS there's no Aqua Ventus Terra to save in the first place. We also don't have Master Xehanort.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
There was no more story to tell after 2, though. Everything was kinda already wrapped up but people wanted a trilogy.
You posited that the spin-offs be separate. Without BBS there's no Aqua Ventus Terra to save in the first place. We also don't have Master Xehanort.
We could've had BBS without some of its more far-reaching implications. It works just fine as a self-contained story, and it still leaves something for Sora to do in this hypothetical world where 2 ended gracefully. Save Aqua, save Ventus, work together to save Terra, take down MX.

It would've saved us from some of the weirder nonsense like the "true organization," time travel, the data and sleeping worlds, and the arbitrary 7/13 split, and given Master Xehanort more screentime rather than just being the man behind the man.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
We could've had BBS without some of its more far-reaching implications. It works just fine as a self-contained story, and it still leaves something for Sora to do in this hypothetical world where 2 ended gracefully. Save Aqua, save Ventus, work together to save Terra.

It would've saved us from some of the weirder nonsense like the "true organization," time travel, the data and sleeping worlds, and the arbitrary 7/13 split, and given Master Xehanort more screentime rather than just being the man behind the man.
This makes no sense. 2 ended with finality and most of the bullshit you’re talking about was added SPECIFICALLY by DDD.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
This makes no sense. 2 ended with finality and most of the bullshit you’re talking about was added SPECIFICALLY by DDD.
Right, 2 would be done and we wouldn't have to dredge up anything from it. BBS could still exist and we could deal with the implications of it without having to dredge up anything from DDD.

I think you're agreeing with me more on this than you're not?
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
Right, 2 would be done and we wouldn't have to dredge up anything from it. BBS could still exist and we could deal with the implications of it without having to dredge up anything from DDD.

I think you're agreeing with me more on this than you're not?
No, I’m confused. I don’t understand what you’re saying. I would rather we live in a world where DDD didn’t exist at all but BBS isn’t really a problem.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
No, I’m confused. I don’t understand what you’re saying. I would rather we live in a world where DDD didn’t exist at all but BBS isn’t really a problem.
At this point I've kinda lost the plot and I'm just rambling about a world that could've been, but I'm agreeing with you. BBS is totally fine, and could've been a setup for 3 on its own - none of the other games were really all that necessary for Sora to go on a quest to save TAV and pit him against MX.

DDD needlessly complicated things and there was no reason why it couldn't have just been its own self-contained entry.
 

malyse

Community Resetter
Member
Killing people seems bad universally lol. But no one really stays dead in KH anyway lol.
Scar has a ghost. And Eraqus didn't actually come back.
DDD needlessly complicated things and there was no reason why it couldn't have just been its own self-contained entry
What does that even mean? What is a self contained 3D? The story relies entirely on connecting games. Personally, I'd rather a KH3 that integrates 0.2 and 3D, because KH3 is very much the final act of those two.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
What does that even mean? What is a self contained 3D? The story relies entirely on connecting games. Personally, I'd rather a KH3 that integrates 0.2 and 3D, because KH3 is very much the final act of those two.
Let me rephrase - there was no reason why 3D actually had to exist because there was enough of a buildup from BBS for a hypothetical followup KH3. They could've still made a 3D but used it as an opportunity to introduce new characters that don't have anything to do with Sora's story because as it stands, it just made a mess of things that they had to work harder to clean up for 3.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
I don't mind DDD, but I really done like the time travel aspect. I think it makes things overtly convoluted just bring back characters that didn't need to be brought back. 13 evils vs 7 lights is fine, but I would have preferred new characters instead of Ansem/Xemnas. Were there any completely new original characters in KH3?
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
Let me rephrase - there was no reason why 3D actually had to exist because there was enough of a buildup from BBS for a hypothetical followup KH3. They could've still made a 3D but used it as an opportunity to introduce new characters that don't have anything to do with Sora's story because as it stands, it just made a mess of things that they had to work harder to clean up for 3.
If they made people buy 3D and then it wasn’t relevant at all to 3 fans would be super pissed.

Like I said, the universe would be better if there was no 3DS KH game, but since we have one, it had to be plot relevant.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,423
Let me rephrase - there was no reason why 3D actually had to exist because there was enough of a buildup from BBS for a hypothetical followup KH3. They could've still made a 3D but used it as an opportunity to introduce new characters that don't have anything to do with Sora's story because as it stands, it just made a mess of things that they had to work harder to clean up for 3.
I thought all 356, Re:Coded, and BBS were specifically building up to DDD?
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
I thought all 356, Re:Coded, and BBS were specifically building up to DDD?
Those three games were all building up to 3 and we definitely could’ve had 3 without the dumb bullshit introduced by DDD.

DDD just exists to justify the time travel and explain why Sora got metroid’d.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
If they made people buy 3D and then it wasn’t relevant at all to 3 fans would be super pissed.

Like I said, the universe would be better if there was no 3DS KH game, but since we have one, it had to be plot relevant.
And this is going to be my point of contention - we could've had a separate storyline running on Nintendo stuff so that we weren't constantly jumping platforms for these games. I don't think it would be awful to just let it exist on its own and I doubt the fanbase would've much cared, but we don't live in that universe so we'll never know.
I thought all 356, Re:Coded, and BBS were specifically building up to DDD?
BBS was filling out the universe and was establishing a new big bad. Days and Re:Coded weren't really building up to anything either, just explaining how he would've come back. It was 3D that kinda screwed the pooch by adding in time travel and really mucking up everything.

We could've actually had a 3 where 0.2 was the opening act and Sora sets off on a quest to rescue TAV after hearing about it, instead of the plot cul-de-sac of the Power of Waking.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,423
Those three games were all building up to 3 and we definitely could’ve had 3 without the dumb bullshit introduced by DDD.

DDD just exists to justify the time travel and explain why Sora got metroid’d.
But I'm talking about Nomura's perspective. He mentioned this once in an interview I believe.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,093
Orlando, FL
But I'm talking about Nomura's perspective. He mentioned this once in an interview I believe.
Nomura is clearly a madman, so we probably won't know exactly how he expected the whole thing to pan out.

It seems more like they wanted to make a 3DS game first and foremost and just let the rest figure itself out, since there's nothing about Coded, Days or BBS that explicitly requires DDD to explain anything.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Oct 25, 2017
21,879
But I'm talking about Nomura's perspective. He mentioned this once in an interview I believe.
He can say whatever he wants, but the storylines in the three other games have little to nothing to do with what happens in DDD. Almost nothing happens in that game except the giant plot dump at the very end.
 
Nov 1, 2017
654
Miami, FL
"If you survive that long."
"Fall before these broken keys."
"This town shall be your resting place."
"Just let it end, boy."
"Expire!"
- Master Xehanort

I love how many ways the can have a character say they're going to kill Sora with using the word "die".
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,192
Canada
Finished this on Saturday. They could have finished the series (or at least Sora's & Xehanort's story), but of course the whole bullshit with the Master of Masters and of course Sora inexplicably fading away at the end really ruins all the rest of the stuff that concludes in this game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,475
I don't mind DDD, but I really done like the time travel aspect. I think it makes things overtly convoluted just bring back characters that didn't need to be brought back. 13 evils vs 7 lights is fine, but I would have preferred new characters instead of Ansem/Xemnas. Were there any completely new original characters in KH3?
Yeah, I was fine with DDD for a good majority of it. Then the time travel stuff started happening and I think I said “Oh no” out loud.
 
Oct 28, 2017
810
So the black box contains 'hope' huh? Wonder what that means.

I wonder if Xigbar might have convinced them to go looking for it so it'd be easier for him to find, or perhaps he just knew all along where it is and played along with Xehanorts hunt for it.
so pete and maleficent were just there to just tease future games, right? or am i forgetting something that they actually did?
Prettymuch. I mean it's better than them failing again, but at the same time it's a real bummer.

With that said though it might be setting up for them to be some of the darknesses/be allied with them in the next game and if that involves the princesses of heart again we could get a semi-redux of KH1 with Malificent as one of the main villains (leading into the bigger plot) which I think would be a nice start to the next saga.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,582
so pete and maleficent were just there to just tease future games, right? or am i forgetting something that they actually did?
*sees intimidating people around box she's been looking for the entire game*

Maleficent: "I-it's not like I really wanted it that bad I'll just come back later."