Counterpoint: Them not half-assing their animations and movesets despite their short appearances is cool attention to detail and not a waste at all.
Not that I'd be opposed to them doing more with them in a DLC.
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[UNMARKED SPOILERS] Kingdom Hearts III & ReMind DLC- Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
Counterpoint: Them not half-assing their animations and movesets despite their short appearances is cool attention to detail and not a waste at all.
Not that I'd be opposed to them doing more with them in a DLC.
You can easily win that fight by only attacking once. Roxas and Xion have absolutely no difficulty getting Saix down to 1 HP, and it doesn't even take them that long.
Roxas should've been playable during that segment. The dual wielded Roxas vs Axel fight is one of the highlights of the KH series.
My dream is that every guardian would be playable for a one on one fight at the end against someone.
Riku vs Ansem SoD
Roxas vs Xemnes
Axel vs Saix
Aqua vs Terranort round 2
Etc etc.
Riku vs Ansem SoD
Roxas vs Xemnes
Axel vs Saix
Aqua vs Terranort round 2
Etc etc.
We're 100% getting an expanded final mix style thing that's well beyond the scope of the past ones OR a Mirage Arena, Blood Palace style combat platform for this stuff.
It's easy money, they have the models, rigging, and moves all done you just need to shift control.
It's easy money, they have the models, rigging, and moves all done you just need to shift control.
I'd easily sacrifice the attention that went to attraction flow for some more magic or combat related abilities, I know that ain't how it work so probably different teams but damn did I avoid using them except splash run after the first two worlds. Don't seem like that's an unpopular opinion eithee
Data style fights with the 13 darknesses would be really hype though they'd obviously have to expand their moveset for solo fights. What I'd be really curious is if they'd let you do the multiboss battles with data versions also. Triple Xehanort would absolutely nuts in that circumstance and probably be the hardest fight in the series.
In the next game I'd like to see enemy specific reaction commands replace attraction flows. They don't have to be as widespread as in KH2 but I particularly missed them when it came to fighting the Nobody enemies.
If we get multiple playable characters + harder difficulty in the FM this would easily be the best KH game ever made
I tell you what if this new game riku and sora yet again after we've gotten all these cool characters back we got problems
Eh, not quite that simple. I hope so! But just because they have a ground combo string, a couple of special moves, a non-aerial spellcasting animation, a running animation, and aerial/ground hitstun animations doesn't mean they have *all* the assets right there (jumping, walking, aerial combo strings, recovery, blocking/countering, et cetera).
Aqua and Riku are clearly *playable* but both somewhat barebones (especially Riku, who doesn't have any Command Styles/Forms at all, just Dark Firaga).
Now, KH2's animations (with playable Sora, Roxas, dual-wielding Roxas, plus separate full combo/finisher strings and stuff for every one of Sora's Drive Forms) can certainly be mined for *some* of this stuff, as can (to a much lesser degree) Birth By Sleep.
It's something I really hope to see done, and *some* of the work has been done to figure out how each of these characters would play, but that doesn't mean it would be as simple as flipping a switch - a pretty good amount of additional animation assets would be required.
Is there something to start with? Absolutely yes. But I'd rather see the version of this where they take the time to flesh everyone out to feel truly good to play with, not the easy way of doing it.
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I think KH4/whatever game picks up the Shibuys plot line will be Sora and Riku.
But we might get another Birth by Sleep game were we can play as other people.
I'd love a game staring Kari, Aqua, and Roxas.
0.2 is also called Birth By Sleep and I did mention Aqua.
I'd argue Xion wasn't wel treated either. She was nothing but an excuse for some man pain in Roxas. She was created to get killed of and everyone forgot she existed until the last hour of KH3.
I'd say thats a very reductiontionist take on Xion. All 3 characters in 358 had very equal amounts of development. She wasn't necessarily forgotten either, as seen KH 3, Axel/Lea had some traces of a memory of her whenever he was looking at Kairi. And manpain or not, Roxas was created in a similar role as well, having to ultimately sacrifice himself for Sora. Its equal amounts of tragedy for everyone involved.
And the reminder earlier, Data Namine was indeed huge and what lead to the bottle being sent at the end of KH2, not to mention giving Sora the goal of resucing the BbS/358 trio.
0.2 isn't Birth by Sleep. It's a sequel.
I mean Roxas was created to be killed off in KH II as well and Sora wasn't even aware he existed until the last hour of KH II.
Xion has her own arc, her own story and agency. She went out on her own terms. She was the deuteragonist for 358 Days.
This isn't a Kairi-situation where she just dies for Sora. This is apart from that. It's not a fridging. It's a willing self-sacrifice in order to mess Xemnas' plans up.
She even contacts Riku to stop Roxas from confronting Xemnas at TWTNW and sets up the beginning of KH II.
It's far too simplistic to say that Xion was created to be killed off. She goes through a very complicated character arc (particularly for Kingdom Hearts). And like The Gunslinger notes, she went out on her own terms. She did what she did because she felt it was the right thing to do.
It's still fridging. It doesn't have to be the worst of the worst in order to qualify as such.
Her ultimate purpose in the story is Roxas's catalyst for self actualization. And when she's not defined by Roxas, she's defined by Sora for other reasons. She's not that bad for a KH character but that's not a high bar.
She's a construct made from Sora's memories that were extracted from Roxas. Anyone that played the game knowing Roxas's fate was sure to understand that Xion's fate was similar. Hell, Xion had the initiative because she came to understand what she was and and forced Roxas's hand.
Id agree normally, but as mentioned, Roxas is created with the same logic/purpose for Sora. There's nothing gender specific here.
That's not what fridging is.
Fridging is when said character has no agency in their death. See: MX killing Kairi.
Xion chose to to go out the way she wanted to. She has agency. She has a choice.
Honestly, Roxas had less of a choice than Xion did when he went out.
And yes, Xion is defined by Roxas and Sora because she is their replica just like Namine is defined by Kairi and Roxas is defined by Sora. It's the nature of the beast.
It helps that Aqua is easily one of the best characters in the series but yeah.
0.2 is called Birth By Sleep and is also 2 hours long but ok fine, we got our mini KH starring a woman.
I'll accept your opinions on Xion but I'd argue that was still fridging. It was done in favor of Roxas' arch. Even if it's not as bad as Kairi kept getting the short end of the stick on every game she was in.
Doesn't change the fact of the matter though.
Roxas does not effectively get killed off in KH2. The fact that Xion and Roxas are portrayed to be in similar predicaments in KH3 doesn't change the difference in how their arcs end in their respective games. Roxas fading away/rejoining Sora is not used as a device to inflict pain on his love interest. We're not supposed to be sad about his summer vacation ending because of the effect it has on someone else.
They are treated differently on a fundamental level.
Did you hear me say one bad thing about Aqua? Of course not! She is one of the best but too bad she's the only female character worth a damn in the entire series.
The fact of the matter is that your misunderstand what fridging actually is.
The broad definition of fridging is a female character killed off as a means of inflicting emotional pain on a male character. The female character not having agency is just one problematic aspect of the dynamic.
Please don't try to litigate this just because you don't want to acknowledge a criticism of the writing in a game you like.
Why would you so blatantly take something I said out of context?
Lmao exactly my thought processWhen has that EVER happ-
yeah I see what could go wrong
Trying to shut down a debate with a blatant 'I'm right, you're wrong, now shut up." Classy.
Cause I'm sleepy and I didn't read the rest of your post :v.
My bad.
Yeah but it's a different game is what I mean.
It's not really done in favor of Roxas' arc. Again, it's not fridging if the character has agency. She isn't Gwen Stacy where she's killed so Roxas can cry.
Xion's death is really more plot-specific. She dies because Sora can't wake up without the memories that she took. Riku gives her a choice on what to do. Xion leaves the Organization and eventually decides that she has to go back to Sora. The Organization isn't having it and drag her back so she decides to commit suicide using Roxas to free those memories stored in her.
Yup exactly my thoughts. I want this so bad for Xemnas. He's already a blast to play against by himself, but adding in some of his old animations while he keeps his speed....dude I'm watering at the mouth just thinking about it.
I frankly like Xion more then Aqua(though Aqua is still great.)
Namine is involved in just about every major arc post CoM and does plenty.
Kairi definitely gets the short end of the stick though which is a shame because I do like her and wish they'd do more.
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Xion doesn't die so Roxas can cry although it does make him sad.
It's plot-specific. She has to die so Sora can come back.
The game is surprisingly respectful of her. Riku along with the story says it's Xion's choice on what to do. Xion chooses to think on it and leaves the Organization. She chooses Sora, the Organization drags her back and she eventually commits suicide via Roxas to stop Xemnas' plan and free Sora's memories stuck inside her.
That's actually a lot gentler than how it's done in KH II where Diz throws Roxas into a fake world with fake memories then just taunts Roxas about how he's nothing and has no rights (fuck you lolol) and then gets shoved into Sora.
Oh yeah, that's exactly how I feel.
Yeah I want to like Kairi but they never do anything with her and it's disappointing.
Let's think for a moment on why
a) Roxas doesn't need to die in order for Sora to properly exist
b) Roxas rejoining Sora doesn't leave behind a sad female love interest
🤔
Roxas rejoining Sora left a sad male bro in the form of Axel.
a) he does (edit: "my summer vacation is over" is pretty clearly a metaphor for his "death" or ceasing to exist anymore ... It's pretty obvious and on the nose)
b) I'd argue that namine was pretty sad about the whole thing, and axel straight up goes rouge over it... So....
Try better next time to stretch definitions, yeah?
He actually does though. Sora can't come back without Roxas' death because Xion's memories got stuck in him.
Also it's kind of a stretch to call Xion a love interest for Roxas. They're just friends like Axel is friends with Roxas. But if you want to include Xion as a love interest then I'll say that Roxas left behind a sad male love interest in Axel : p
I love this so much. Probably my favorite original piece in the game. Hoping that the Final Mix or eventual DLC expands on Scala ad Caelum like the Royal Edition did with Insomnia in XV with it being fully explorable and puzzles and bosses instead of just being "walk to fight the many forms of the final boss." It is a very beautiful world.
I personally don't care for Xion whatsoever but there is a point in that her character was created specifically because the writers wanted a girl around Roxas's age to be the reason he leaves the Organization.
Namine deserves so much better. She said what we were all thinking when she called out the others for being more concerned about Roxas than her. Poor girl's been waiting so long for just a simple "thank you" but there's always some dumb reason why she can't get it. Roxas and his friends were off having an ice cream party while she woke up in a lab with none of her friends around (Riku conveniently showing up afterwards doesn't count).
Namine deserves so much better. She said what we were all thinking when she called out the others for being more concerned about Roxas than her. Poor girl's been waiting so long for just a simple "thank you" but there's always some dumb reason why she can't get it. Roxas and his friends were off having an ice cream party while she woke up in a lab with none of her friends around (Riku conveniently showing up afterwards doesn't count).
I thought recalled them saying they wanted someone around his age, but decided to make it a girl to change things up.