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hateradio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,729
welcome, nowhere
Steven Moffat can't write women, Tetsuya Nomura can't write people. :P
What do you mean? People love ice cream.

giphy.gif
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,077
Terra and Aqua are Ventus's parents who are going through a divorce because daddy is a big dumb who keeps touching the darkness.
 
Jan 25, 2019
74
Most of the Kingdom Hearts chararacters are guilty of this because they are ultimately dumb teenagers who make mistakes and act up sometimes. Riku didn't have to duck Sora after a year of not seeing him, but he did it anyway.

Like, not liking Days or it's characters is understandable enough but all of these characters act immature and try to give eachother the run around sometimes

Riku's issue was more personal, and that choice was confronted and resolved with his friends. They can move pass it.

Axel, Terra, and Aqua are adults, btw. With Axel being in his mid-20s. He, most of all, should know better.

And none of that changes the fact that all main trios are toxic. It's why life has friendships broken permanently and others cutting poisonous people off. But that's not what fans want. They want their romanticism to be true.

People's perception have been influenced by teen drama shows from what I see.

That's 358/2 Days in a nutshell: a teen drama.

With keys as blades.
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
I can't get over Master Erquas (however you spell the stupid characters name).. Literally, Xehanort tells you he is diving into darkness, then when you try to stop him he literally scars you - something you mentally AND literally physically cannot forget - with powers of darkness. THEN you invite him to your students' mark of mastery and THEN when the orbs of light turn to dark you are like 'WTF is going on?!. AND THEN you act like you have no idea what is causing all of this mayhem AND THEN you try to kill your student VENTUS!??!?! PLS someone this is like the worst thing about KH I think. Now he gets his own childhood flashback scenes of endless chess acting like he is the best light master of all time (even tho he completely was the reason this started really).
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,077
I can't get over Master Erquas (however you spell the stupid characters name).. Literally, Xehanort tells you he is diving into darkness, then when you try to stop him he literally scars you - something you mentally AND literally physically cannot forget - with powers of darkness. THEN you invite him to your students' mark of mastery and THEN when the orbs of light turn to dark you are like 'WTF is going on?!. AND THEN you act like you have no idea what is causing all of this mayhem AND THEN you try to kill your student VENTUS!??!?! PLS someone this is like the worst thing about KH I think. Now he gets his own childhood flashback scenes of endless chess acting like he is the best light master of all time (even tho he completely was the reason this started really).

Luke is 0/2 for students and sense at this point.
 

Ravenwraith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,344
Riku's issue was more personal, and that choice was confronted and resolved with his friends. They can move pass it.

Axel, Terra, and Aqua are adults, btw. With Axel being in his mid-20s.

And none of that changes the fact that all main trios are toxic. It's why life has friendships broken permanently and others cutting poisonous people off. But that's not what fans want. They want their romanticism to be true.

People's perception have been influenced by teen drama shows from what I see.

That's 358/2 Days in a nutshell: a teen drama.

With keys as blades.

I mean I agree that it's all schlocky teen shit, but that's exactly what the series is going for and exactly what the target audience wants lmao.

It varies for me. I like Sora and Riku's dynamic a lot because they've shown the most growth but. but I find anything from BBS hard to sit through given how old they're supposed to actually be.

Days is somewhere in the middle for me. They're all less emotionally mature than you'd expect but they're also all essentially new to this whole emotions thing. Nomura had an interesting out with the nobodies in that their awkward interactions and mannerisms could be pinned on their lack of emotional range.

That's not how everyone is going to read it though.
 

Neo Hartless

Member
Jan 8, 2019
1,811
Somehow, Eraqus actually seems less dumb now that the new Star Wars movies came out and revealed the actual Luke Skywalker is just as awful at teaching.

Hey, at least it was the POINT of it.

The movie was ABOUT him paying the price for his stupid impulsive mistake and he learns to overcome it.

Eraqus' dumbness was just there to give Terra motivation.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,326
Hey, at least it was the POINT of it.

The movie was ABOUT him paying the price for his stupid impulsive mistake and he learns to overcome it.

Eraqus' dumbness was just there to give Terra motivation.

Oh, Luke's arc in the new movies is fine. I just like poking fun at the fact that Hamill seems to have been typecast as an awful teacher.
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,077
Hamil has been a bad teacher (x2), bad father (Avatar) and a bad boyfriend (Joker). I will be suspicious of any character he plays from now on.
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
Xehanort: The game is over. I win.

Eraqus: Are you sure?... *Chess pieces of the -past (eyeroll) - appear.* There's more to light than meets the eye. Sometimes light comes from the past.

NO you dick you lost the game and made chess pieces appear on the board.
 
Nov 19, 2017
492
Honest question: So do most of you actually think Eraqus and Xehanort played that chess game? Anything's possible in this series (and maybe Nomura has already clarified on it), but I've always thought we were supposed to take it be metaphorica and opposed to literal. Especially the part with them setting up the "new game."
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I just don't understand how people can play that game and not come away frustrated by how it doesn't actually develop anyone in the Organization proper, instead electing to focus entirely on Roxas and Xion.

Like, if SOME of that time was spent on elaborating on characters like Larxene or Zexion or Xaldin who don't really get that much screen time or character development, it would have at least had some value. But they couldn't even give us that. It was just the same goddamn ice cream sharing scene over and over again.
Because the point of that game was never about developing the Orginization. It was to develop Roxas, Axel, and Xion.

Considering the group seems decently popular and I'd say for the majority it succeeded.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,326
BECuse the point of that game was never about developing the Orginization. It was to develop Roxas, Axel, and Xion.

Considering the group seems decently popular and I'd say for the majority it succeeded.

Then I just disagree on a fundamental level with the game's existence. Which is fine, every Nintendo KH game has been bad and that's never gonna change.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
Honest question: So do most of you actually think Eraqus and Xehanort played that chess game? Anything's possible in this series (and maybe Nomura has already clarified on it), but I've always thought we were supposed to take it be metaphorica and opposed to literal. Especially the part with them setting up the "new game."

It's metaphorical as far as they actually played out the events of KH3 and the pieces corresponded to the cast, but probably they played an actual game where the tides turned like that when they were kids.
 

Hexa

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Xehanort: The game is over. I win.

Eraqus: Are you sure?... *Chess pieces of the -past (eyeroll) - appear.* There's more to light than meets the eye. Sometimes light comes from the past.

NO you dick you lost the game and made chess pieces appear on the board.

So I've noticed in a lot of anime and Japanese games that no one can play chess properly. Like sometimes its done for dramatic effect, like the common thing of a king being placed in front of another king as checkmate somehow, but a lot of the time it's just wrong for no reason and it feels like the only reason is no one there knows how to play chess. Whats up with that?
 

LostSkullKid

Member
Nov 27, 2017
4,681
Hamil has been a bad teacher (x2), bad father (Avatar) and a bad boyfriend (Joker). I will be suspicious of any character he plays from now on.
I was confused about this post at first cause I thought you meant the blue people movie when you said Avatar. Like I definitely didn't remember him being in that movie. LMAO. Then again I barely remember much about that movie in the first place.
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,077
I was confused about this post at first cause I thought you meant the blue people movie when you said Avatar. Like I definitely didn't remember him being in that movie. LMAO. Then again I barely remember much about that movie in the first place.

Welp you had me guessing for a second. Like no way was that movie so bland that I missed Mark Hamill playing a blue space alien.
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
Btw anyone in this thread: def recommend reading the Q and A ultimania stuff that someone just made a threat. Clears up a lot and makes the story more interesting (altho nomura seriously needs to hire someone with a half a brain to write good dialogue - the 'plot' is actually not that bad overall).
 

ChaserX

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,407
Miami, FL
Random fun fact: Yoko Shimomura has been with the KH series nearly as long as Nobuo Uematsu has been with Square Enix.
 
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Xenosaga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,976
Btw anyone in this thread: def recommend reading the Q and A ultimania stuff that someone just made a threat. Clears up a lot and makes the story more interesting (altho nomura seriously needs to hire someone with a half a brain to write good dialogue - the 'plot' is actually not that bad overall).
This is the way I feel. Honestly I really love overall plot and concepts/ideas around Kingdom Hearts, even the modern ones and Ux stuff. But Nomura and Oka's writing execution has a lot to be desired. I wish it was Nojima writing along with Nomura's concepts, and Jun Akiyama doing the cutscenes instead of Nomura/Oka doing all these.
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,267
wherever
After the loss of Versus, and waiting so many years for KH3, I was really hoping that Nomura would deliver another action RPG for the ages. Though knowing that would be highly unlikely. So we ended up with a pretty decent game with a whole lot of issues holding it back. Awesome combat mechanics that aren't utilized properly due to the lack of any real difficulty. A meandering mess of a story that doesn't feel like it goes anywhere until the last few hours of the game. A whole bunch of villains that feel like harmless jokes. Like, how many times did an Organization member show up, spout some nonsensical bullshit, and then just leave? These guys aren't threatening, they're not funny, they're just annoying.

The Disney worlds left a lot to be desired. Toy Story in particular was disappointing. We interact with so few characters from the series, at least let me have a boss fight with Emperor Zurg. Exploring Andy's room was cool though. The Toy Story and Monster's Inc worlds made me think Pixar put a lot of limitations around their IP use for the game, which doesn't make me hopeful for more Pixar worlds in future sequels. Olympus was probably the best level in the game, even if we didn't get an actual Coliseum this time. Funnily enough that one wasn't even considered KH3.

The finale was cool though. I liked the boss fights, and the emotional beats of the story were landing pretty well at this point. Nothing that comes close to "looks like my summer vacation is over" of course. But this is the point where the series gets to cash in on built up fan service and it did a pretty good job of that at least. The hack & slash gameplay is as fun as ever, and Yoko Shimomura hasn't lost a beat.

A critical mode and some more bosses (where the hell is Sephiroth) will elevate the experience, but I feel like playing through a lot of these Disney worlds again will be more of a slog than anything else. And my god make Donald Duck shut up about ingredients.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,984
Sora is a big dumb golden retriever, but he's the protagonist so we all have to put up with him.

Aqua's an idiot because she doesn't realize that her own stupid choices are half the reason her team got broken up in the first place.
Man enough of this shit.

People love to put the onus on Aqua for this and its like

No, fuck that.

They broke apart cause Terra and Ventus are giant jackasses.

You think those two woulda come waltzing back if Aqua hadn't that one dumb thing in Radiant Garden?


Its especially bad with Ven cause that munchkin has no reason to be out and about.

I wanted to punch his stupid face in Radiant Garden cause he's literally doing nothing. It's legit like "motherfucker, stop being a baby and go home."
 

Orbit

Banned
Nov 21, 2018
1,328
After the loss of Versus, and waiting so many years for KH3, I was really hoping that Nomura would deliver another action RPG for the ages. Though knowing that would be highly unlikely. So we ended up with a pretty decent game with a whole lot of issues holding it back. Awesome combat mechanics that aren't utilized properly due to the lack of any real difficulty. A meandering mess of a story that doesn't feel like it goes anywhere until the last few hours of the game. A whole bunch of villains that feel like harmless jokes. Like, how many times did an Organization member show up, spout some nonsensical bullshit, and then just leave? These guys aren't threatening, they're not funny, they're just annoying.

The Disney worlds left a lot to be desired. Toy Story in particular was disappointing. We interact with so few characters from the series, at least let me have a boss fight with Emperor Zurg. Exploring Andy's room was cool though. The Toy Story and Monster's Inc worlds made me think Pixar put a lot of limitations around their IP use for the game, which doesn't make me hopeful for more Pixar worlds in future sequels. Olympus was probably the best level in the game, even if we didn't get an actual Coliseum this time. Funnily enough that one wasn't even considered KH3.

The finale was cool though. I liked the boss fights, and the emotional beats of the story were landing pretty well at this point. Nothing that comes close to "looks like my summer vacation is over" of course. But this is the point where the series gets to cash in on built up fan service and it did a pretty good job of that at least. The hack & slash gameplay is as fun as ever, and Yoko Shimomura hasn't lost a beat.

A critical mode and some more bosses (where the hell is Sephiroth) will elevate the experience, but I feel like playing through a lot of these Disney worlds again will be more of a slog than anything else. And my god make Donald Duck shut up about ingredients.

I completely agree - some of the worlds felt very limited. I guess I never noticed before, with the previous main numbered titles being on PS2 and naturally assuming "oh, well the console isn't powerful enough to handle so much". Like some reviewers have said, the graphical improvements are a double-edged sword: beautiful game but it kinda makes the negatives stand out more.

Also, it really annoyed me how a world title card would appear for THE FINAL WORLD and SCAL AD CAELUM (or whatever its called) when the worlds couldnt even be explored and it was more like a big QTE section. I think those worlds def saw stripped content because of dev time constrictions. Sorry but don't show me a frickin world title card when its not even a world.

Your gifs always make me want to go back and play it, but I've already played through twice and platinum'd, so have mercy! lol
 

Delaney

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,217
The twelve Xehanorts at Scala ad Caelum being the replicas used as vessels for the Organization members doesn't make much sense since it's stated that Vanitas, Saix, Luxord, Demyx, Marluxia and Larxene didn't use replicas.

Speaking of which, I'd rather had Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia and Larxene be pulled from the past (KH1-Days-KH2) instead of being made nobodies again just to me made human again at the end of the game. Other Ultimania detail that sort of contradicts the game is that Nomura said Xion is the 13th member that replaced Sora, yet in the game Mickey states that the 13th and final member is Terra. The writing in that scene goes out of the way to dictate that Terra was the final member to be revealed, yet Mickey himself hasn't met the rest of the Org members to even know that.

Also, Saix being retconned into joining the Organization with wanting to atone for the pain he caused to the protagonists doesn't sit well with him stopping Axel from saving Sora during KH3D's ending. I don't buy the "he was playing an act/trying to gain Xehanort's trust" because he already did that giving away his humanity for him willingly and with all of his Days/KH2 actions lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
Speaking of which, I'd rather had Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia and Larxene be pulled from the past (KH1-Days-KH2) instead of being made nobodies again just to me made human again at the end of the game. Other Ultimania detail that sort of contradicts the game is that Nomura said Xion is the 13th member that replaced Sora, yet in the game Mickey states that the 13th and final member is Terra. The writing in that scene goes out of the way to dictate that Terra was the final member to be revealed, yet Mickey himself hasn't met the rest of the Org members to even know that.

My rationalization for this is that they were assuming Vexen was in the Org at this point, and so once they knew Terranort was in for sure Mickey was like "Well, that's 13 now".
 

Delaney

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,217
My rationalization for this is that they were assuming Vexen was in the Org at this point, and so once they knew Terranort was in for sure Mickey was like "Well, that's 13 now".

But Vexen had already returned to Radiant Garden to help Roxas come back. If we assume they thought Vexen and Demyx were still true Org members at that point, chronologically Riku Replica would be the last one member revealed for the heroes to assume that they already knew the 13 darknesses.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,326
The twelve Xehanorts at Scala ad Caelum being the replicas used as vessels for the Organization members doesn't make much sense since it's stated that Vanitas, Saix, Luxord, Demyx, Marluxia and Larxene didn't use replicas.

Speaking of which, I'd rather had Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia and Larxene be pulled from the past (KH1-Days-KH2) instead of being made nobodies again just to me made human again at the end of the game. Other Ultimania detail that sort of contradicts the game is that Nomura said Xion is the 13th member that replaced Sora, yet in the game Mickey states that the 13th and final member is Terra. The writing in that scene goes out of the way to dictate that Terra was the final member to be revealed, yet Mickey himself hasn't met the rest of the Org members to even know that.

Also, Saix being retconned into joining the Organization with wanting to atone for the pain he caused to the protagonists doesn't sit well with him stopping Axel from saving Sora during KH3D's ending. I don't buy the "he was playing an act/trying to gain Xehanort's trust" because he already did that giving away his humanity for him willingly and with all of his Days/KH2 actions lol

I just figured it was Xehanort using the essences of all the dead members, rather than the replicas themselves. The Riku Replica replica got taken by the heroes, so even if it was replica dolls Xehanort would be down one.
 

Delaney

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,217
I just figured it was Xehanort using the essences of all the dead members, rather than the replicas themselves. The Riku Replica replica got taken by the heroes, so even if it was replica dolls Xehanort would be down one.

Yeah, but he says in the Dengeki interview that the black coated figures at Scala ad Caelum were the Organization replicas. Also, Xion never died, yet one of the replicas uses her keyblade. The same happens with Xigbar. The only way this makes sense is if Vexen kind of made a whole lot of replicas. The entire Scala ad Caelum segment is implied to be happening inside Xehanort's heart too so maybe the twelve pieces of his heart came back manifesting themselves as the replicas or something.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,326
Yeah, but he says in the Dengeki interview that the black coated figures at Scala ad Caelum were the Organization replicas. Also, Xion never died, yet one of the replicas uses her keyblade. The same happens with Xigbar. The only way this makes sense is if Vexen kind of made a whole lot of replicas. The entire Scala ad Caelum segment is implied to be happening inside Xehanort's heart too so maybe the twelve pieces of his heart came back manifesting themselves as the replicas or something.

I think that's what happened. All the little nort pieces he used came back with a bit of power from the people he Norted and those became the cloneanorts. There aren't 12 more fresh replicas lying around.