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[UNMARKED SPOILERS] Kingdom Hearts III & ReMind DLC- Spoiler Thread

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Voltt

Voltt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,499
Wrestleman said:
...when did Vanitas ever call Sora brother? He only calls Ventus brother to my recollection, and that's tongue in cheek, not meant literally.
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It's when Vanitas dies, but it's just him explaining how he, Ven, and Sora fit together, not any sort of actual brotherly relation. I think it's pretty obvious that Sora, Naminé, Roxas, Xion, Ven, and Vanitas aren't literally meant to be part of some weird family. Especially considering there's a fair amount of romantic subtext between Roxas and Xion.
 
Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

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Nov 6, 2017
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Wrestleman said:
...when did Vanitas ever call Sora brother? He only calls Ventus brother to my recollection, and that's tongue in cheek, not meant literally.
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When he dies.


Vanitas: I'm the piece of Ventus that was taken away and you're piece needed to make Ventus whole again. So why shouldn't you and I look exactly the same? You define me, Sora. The same way that Ventus does. We are brothers who together make a greater whole.
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Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

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Nov 6, 2017
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Voltt said:
It's when Vanitas dies, but it's just him explaining how he, Ven, and Sora fit together, not any sort of actual brotherly relation. I think it's pretty obvious that Sora, Naminé, Roxas, Xion, Ven, and Vanitas aren't literally meant to be part of some weird family. Especially considering there's a fair amount of romantic subtext between Roxas and Xion.
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I mean Xion is literally Sora's clone. She is to Sora what the Riku Replica is to Riku.
 
Voltt

Voltt

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Oct 25, 2017
10,499
The Gunslinger said:
I mean Xion is literally Sora's clone. She is to Sora what the Riku Replica is to Riku.
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Riku Replica was a literal copy of Riku. Obviously, Vexen messed with his personality to make him serve the Organization better (and he developed on his own over time), but he's very much an alternate Riku. It's at the core of his character in CoM, where he desperately wanted to be someone that wasn't Riku.

Xion was formed from Sora's memories, but she wasn't really at all like him. She didn't even have any identity at all to begin with, she just followed orders like a drone. Interacting with other people led to her developing her own personality that was completely unique. That didn't have anything to do with Sora. She's connected, but it's not really the same situation as Riku Replica.

Edit: IIRC, Riku Replica also had a copy of Riku's heart, where Xion was originally empty like a Nobody, growing her own heart later on.
 
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Gold Arsene

Gold Arsene

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Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Random thought I had but I think it's funny that thanks to 358/2 we know how many days it was in between Sora turning into a Heartless and the start of Chain of Memories. Looking at Roxas' journal it's about 22 days.

I just find that amusing given most RPG's besides stuff like Persona don't really give you much information on just how long your journey is taking.
 
ChaserX

ChaserX

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,407
Miami, FL
Vanitas should've lived and became the series anti-hero. Everyone else is either too good, too evil, or capable but apathetic.

Like a permanent Namek-Android saga Vegeta.
 
Fj0823

Fj0823

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If Vanitas is to be compared to a Dragon Ball Character, he clearly is:

Goku_Black_Insane.PNG
 
cLOUDo

cLOUDo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,188
I just finish the game and I have no idea what just happen lol

Who was the mysterious boy that help sora at the beginning
How namine is back? Isn't she require his heart (that was inside Kairi)
How Kairi came back at the end?
What happens to sora?

Who the hell are all those guys in the keyblade graveyard
And wtf is happening in the secret ending

So many questions, internet save me
 
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Gold Arsene

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
cLOUDo said:
I just finish the game and I have no idea what just happen lol

How namine is back? Isn't she require his heart (that was inside Kairi)
How Kairi came back at the end?
What happens to sora?

Who the hell are all those guys in the keyblade graveyard
And wtf is happening in the secret ending

So many questions, internet save me
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Check the reports for some of that.

The guys in the keyblade graveyard are characters from Kingdom Hearts X, the mobile game.

They were featured in a movie in the 2.8 collection.
 
Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

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Nov 6, 2017
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Voltt said:
Riku Replica was a literal copy of Riku. Obviously, Vexen messed with his personality to make him serve the Organization better (and he developed on his own over time), but he's very much an alternate Riku. It's at the core of his character in CoM, where he desperately wanted to be someone that wasn't Riku.

Xion was formed from Sora's memories, but she wasn't really at all like him. She didn't even have any identity at all to begin with, she just followed orders like a drone. Interacting with other people led to her developing her own personality that was completely unique. That didn't have anything to do with Sora. She's connected, but it's not really the same situation as Riku Replica.

Edit: IIRC, Riku Replica also had a copy of Riku's heart, where Xion was originally empty like a Nobody, growing her own heart later on.
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It doesn't matter that Xion isn't exactly like Sora. It doesn't stop her from being his clone just like the Riku Replica has his own heart despite being Riku's clone.

Replicas
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are artificial copies of people. Created by Organization XIII, they are a special type of Nobody that first appears in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories.

Replicas are blank figures, akin to mannequins; they take the form of whatever heart or data of a heart is placed inside of it. Kingdom Hearts III They have the same skills as the individuals used to create them. They also have the unique ability to absorb other individuals. Chain of Memories 358/2 Days The Riku Replica was created using data Vexen collected from fighting Riku, while Xemnas used Sora's memories to make Xion, an imperfect replica of Roxas.
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Vexen and Xemnas did the same thing. They took data from Riku and Sora to create the Riku Replica and Xion.

Xion doesn't look like Kairi until Sora's extra memories start leaking once he goes into Castle Oblivion but she was a Sora clone before that anyway. Her base ingredient is Sora just like Riku Replica's base is Riku even if they develop differently.
 
Fj0823

Fj0823

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Oct 25, 2017
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cLOUDo said:
I just finish the game and I have no idea what just happen lol

How namine is back? Isn't she require his heart (that was inside Kairi)
How Kairi came back at the end?
What happens to sora?

Who the hell are all those guys in the keyblade graveyard
And wtf is happening in the secret ending

So many questions, internet save me
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Namine got an artificial body via Ienzo, Even and Ansem the Wise. Her revival clearly happened after Sora rescued Kairi.

Sora abused the power of waking to bring everyone back one time, that doomed him. The power is not supposed to be used to bring lost hearts back. So he has a price to pay. Young Xehanort and Mickey said it. After he saved Kairi he just accelerated the inevitable and disappeared during the beach party.

The guys at the Keyblade Graveyard are old Keyblade wielders from the times of War from the mobile game (That means actual players that got their usernames in the game!!) Their "Guild" leader in that game is the white haired guy whose spirit offered Sora help

The secret ending is purposely vague, but we believe Sora is in Shibuya to play the reapers game (from The World Ends With You) and regain his life
 
Pop-O-Matic

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,850
ChaserX said:
Vanitas should've lived and became the series anti-hero. Everyone else is either too good, too evil, or capable but apathetic.

Like a permanent Namek-Android saga Vegeta.
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Nah, if anyone gets to be KH Vegeta, it has to be Larxene. She's got the attitude, the ego and the biting pseudometacommentary. Yeah, I know that KHχ is softening her character, but fuck, she'd be so much fun in the "token shitheel who still does good things every once in a while if it benifits them" role.
 
Mory Dunz

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,276
So why were all the nobodies you killed in CoM and KH2 alive as nobodies and not somebodies?

I know Vexen and Ienzo and them were somebodies who chose to go back or not go back to 13.

but then Marluxia, Larxene, Xemnas, Luxor
why were they alive again??



Jadusable said:
It's baffling to me how they just dumped all of these organization 13 members together and killed them off in a series of 3v3 boss fights in the last hour of the game - especially since the Disney worlds leading up to this climax felt unrelated to the plot entirely.

Why not just sprinkle at least a few of them throughout the worlds and give them more focus? Its not like they didn't have their boss fight mechanics implemented or something. As result you practically feel like a janitor unceremoniously just closing up loose ends all at once by the third or forth back-to-back team fight.

What a wild design decision.
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my biggest complaint.

none of the deaths mattered cause you knew Xehanort and Ansem and Xemnas were probably coming in like 20 minutes.
 
Hailinel

Hailinel

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Oct 27, 2017
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Mory Dunz said:
So why were all the nobodies you killed in CoM and KH2 alive as nobodies and not somebodies?

I know Vexen and Ienzo and them were somebodies who chose to go back or not go back to 13.

but then Marluxia, Larxene, Xemnas, Luxor
why were they alive again??
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They were recompleted, but then became Nobodies again. Simple as that.
 
Metto

Metto

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WrenchNinja said:


That versus rage
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Man for better and for worse Nomura does write from the heart.

With that said man it also adds some context to alot of smaller lines and moments during the game. Alot of the time it seems like everyone in the game has done one little jab at Sora and then there's the constant moments where Donald and Goofy shove Sora because they want to talk to Mickey. I wonder if those were ways to get in little licks at Sora without being too mean. Especially since the ending already gives Sora a huge gut punch
 
Woozies

Woozies

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Nov 1, 2017
18,980
In terms of being a character it goes.

Aqua

Big Gap

Xion

HUGE GAP

Namine

Gap the size of the Solar System

Kairi
 
Woozies

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
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Hailinel said:
Characters can be Macguffins.

That being said, I fail to see the argument as to how Namine herself is a Macguffin in this game.
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you fail to see how a character, who you can completely miss, whose only action is something that breaks continuity to save the heroes and only gets two scenes total in this game

is a maguffin.
 
Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

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Nov 6, 2017
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OH FUCK ME!!!!

I just went through the Days movie. Nomura had the Xehanort vessels shit planned from at least Days onward.

Saix spells out that Xemnas has a secret agenda hidden from everyone else.

And there's this.

Xemnas: It only proves that the puppet is the more worthy vessel.
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Xion-worthy-vessel.jpg
-

And then the camera does an aggressive zoom in on Xemnas' eyes to emphasize them after he says the word vessel.

tumblr_mjm751CK0V1r0568po1_1280.png


Which parallels the other Norts in Birth By Sleep. (Also he looks a shit ton like Terra in this shot, it creeps me out)

When Terra becomes Terranort, it zooms in on his eyes:

ri9oo9.jpg


When Braig comes back a Nort and Aqua asks " Who are you?", it zooms in on his eye.

Like this:

tumblr_inline_pb7197mr9g1vtaoaw_540.gif


DDD:

tumblr_mhtxrgfTMB1qbc2ylo3_500.gif
 
Hailinel

Hailinel

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Woozies said:
you fail to see how a character, who you can completely miss, whose only action is something that breaks continuity to save the heroes and only gets two scenes total in this game

is a maguffin.
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That's not what a macguffin is.

McGuffin
/məˈɡəfin/
noun
noun: MacGuffin
  1. an object or device in a movie or a book that serves merely as a trigger for the plot.
Namine is not a plot trigger. She's not the Maltese Falcon everyone pursues as a means to move the plot forward. She's a character encountered during the course of events who plays a minor role.

If you're going to throw Film Critique 101 terminology around, you might as well get it right.
 
_AstraAssasin_

_AstraAssasin_

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Jan 25, 2019
74
Fj0823 said:
Roxas and Xion make much more sense than Roxas and the girl who told him to go kill himself
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Xion and Naminè literally had a convo in Days where they were in similar agreement that Roxas should go kill himself [eventually], lmao. In your bs words at least.

That's why I love Roxas. It seems that returning to Sora was painted as the just thing to do and "not feeling Sora yet" was the reason he hadn't decided that just choice. Instead, he flipped the middle finger and only returned when there was nothing left.
 
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Woozies

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,980
Hailinel said:
That's not what a macguffin is.

McGuffin
/məˈɡəfin/
noun
noun: MacGuffin
  1. an object or device in a movie or a book that serves merely as a trigger for the plot.
Namine is not a plot trigger. She's not the Maltese Falcon everyone pursues as a means to move the plot forward. She's a character encountered during the course of events who plays a minor role.

If you're going to throw Film Critique 101 terminology around, you might as well get it right.
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Fine correction. She's a plot device.
 
Voltt

Voltt

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Oct 25, 2017
10,499
I'd definitely place Xion as the best female character.

Aqua is an interesting one though. I felt like she was a bit on the bland side in BBS, but 0.2 did wonders for her character. I'm not the biggest fan of 0.2's actual plot, but what it did with Aqua was genuinely really impressive considering how short the game is.
 
Hailinel

Hailinel

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Voltt said:
I'd definitely place Xion as the best female character.

Aqua is an interesting one though. I felt like she was a bit on the bland side in BBS, but 0.2 did wonders for her character. I'm not the biggest fan of 0.2's actual plot, but what it did with Aqua was genuinely really impressive considering how short the game is.
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I've said this before, but going back to 0.2 after finishing KH3 really highlights how creepy and tragic the whole Mirror Aqua sequence is. It's a direct foreshadowing of what happens to her.

Woozies said:
Man, fuck you. You know exactly what I meant cause I laid it out.

Being fucking obtuse.
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You didn't lay anything out, though. You incorrectly called her a macguffin, I corrected you on that, then you doubled back to calling her a plot device without any argument.

Namine is a character whose appearance in Kingdom Hearts III is brief, which is unfortunate. All the more so for the fact that her biggest scene in the game can be easily missed. Though even that, strangely, works into her complaint that no one ever thinks about her, whether that was a conscious nod to her small presence in the game or not. Regardless, she has a presence, small as it is, and plays a role in the story. How time rewound and she was able to point Lingering Will in Xehanort's direction isn't explained, but that's more a fault of vague storytelling than anything specifically to do with Namine.
 
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Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

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Woozies said:
Xion lacks the screen time and general purpose beyond Days to ever be #1.

She has notable agency, but she clearly existed to die. WHich is fine, a lot of characters existed to die. Hell, Roxas existed to die.
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While those are all true, Xion's more fleshed out compared to Aqua. Hell, she's more fleshed out than Terra is.

Motivation-wise, she's a more complex character than Aqua whose character solely revolves around Ventus and Terra until 0.2 adds a couple layers to her. It takes 2 games to actually give Aqua layers.

Xion has layers to begin with and has existential questions driving her first and foremost that clashes with her desire to be with her friends.

BBS Aqua is a girl scout and Xion is a good person in service to a bad cause that struggles on what the right thing to do is.
 
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