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Wowfunhappy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
So Nintendo keeps SNES source code but Squaresoft threw away FFVIII source code? LMAO.
Often makes me think about how pretentious Squaresoft was back in the day, especially the western marketing. Squaresosft, during parts of the SNES generation, had the slogon "Square. Maker Of The World's Best Video Games."

The world's best video games and never bothered to preserve them.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
1595633717688.png


Amazing.

And improved within minutes:
EdupnS7XYAEsusU.png:large
You can still see the forest of illusions in the middle 🥰
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
The preservation angle always seems weird to me at least when it comes with Nintendo, like the whole point of this is that Nintendo preserves almost everything, what people want is not preservation but it being public
Preservation is absolutely worthless if it's not made public. It may as well not exist. Preservation is more than hoarding.

(Edit) to be clear, yes Nintendo is in there right to never release these things. But to call what they did preservation, I don't agree.

That said since so many companies in the 80's and 90's didn't even manage to pull off the base minimum...
 

ForlornFate

Member
Jun 12, 2019
101
I don't understand why anyone but Nintendo would be upset by this. How is seeing long forgotten source code hurting the public?

Nintendo's frustration is very understandable though seeing how strict they are with their IP's image (look at the recent news of the Paper Mario series not being allowed to alter any official designs).
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,431
I'd be pretty pissed if someone stole my source code and people were all happy on gaming forums. It's one thing to see lost prototypes, but actual source code of finished games? That's not very nice

I agree with you. I like looking at things like the cutting room floor because it allows people a peak at certain unfinished or changed aspects in games, but I feel a little uneasy at people being so outwardly positive about what is effectively the proceeds from a cyber hack.



I would point to Dylan Cuthbert's response above and I can begin to understand his feeling of dissatisfaction towards other people going through something that he worked on several decades ago in such specific detail, particularly when it relates to stuff that he worked on and has long forgotten about like certain internal development tools.

Without making too much of a point of it, I would feel really uncomfortable if long forgotten artifacts from my own work were suddenly released to the public domain. I don't think it's a question of being overly secretive or not welcoming the interest and enthusiasm from die hard fans. It is really cool and interesting to see some of this stuff come to light but I think people who worked on this are entitled to feel uneasy about it all being put out there without any means to directly respond outside of speaking publicly or seeking legal action or some other intervention.

If you work in an environment where you might reasonably expect that personal records, internal communications and pieces of your work would come to light in an unfiltered, unedited way then I think you are in a far better position to prepare yourself for that eventuality. I don't think a commercial software developer or publisher is that kind of environment. Even free open source software often starts off as something that is private and worked on by a small group of people in relative secrecy or anonymity before it is made available to a wider environment in an edited, sanitised form.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
I don't understand why anyone but Nintendo would be upset by this. How is seeing long forgotten source code hurting the public?

Nintendo's frustration is very understandable though seeing how strict they are with their IP's image (look at the recent news of the Paper Mario series not being allowed to alter any official designs).

I guess it is sympathy? Like, I would not be happy if a bunch of my journals and scribbles and pre-beta code was stolen and shared with the world.
 

TheBaldEmperor

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,839
This is all incredible stuff. Just bonkers that all this got out.

I am very sad that there isn't really anything to speak of from SMRPG.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
I will say the personal communication between staff is absolutely too much. I'm not cheering for that kind of stuff.

Hell, I doubt most people give much care to the source code either. Most people are just interested in the assets and maybe some of the more playable prototypes.

There is no reason this stuff couldn't have not only been shared, but monetized by Nintendo. Part of the draw with Hyrule Historia was not just the lore, but the cool stuff behind the scenes. A history of Mario book with these assets would have sold great.

Again, I'm not championing how this stuff was acquired or all of the content that was released. It's a shame Nintendo didn't release on their own terms, but chances are they were never going to.
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,537
I think the issue is that the game industry as a whole should be more open about the developmental process. Stuff like this shows that people would gladly pay for a book or something that detailed this stuff.

I would gladly sell two of my limbs and all my non-essential organs to get details on Pokemon development. Obviously hyperbole, but I would pay a hefty amount.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
I will say the personal communication between staff is absolutely too much. I'm not cheering for that kind of stuff.

Hell, I doubt most people give much care to the source code either. Most people are just interested in the assets and maybe some of the more playable prototypes.

There is no reason this stuff couldn't have not only been shared, but monetized by Nintendo. Part of the draw with Hyrule Historia was not just the lore, but the cool stuff behind the scenes. A history of Mario book with these assets would have sold great.

Again, I'm not championing how this stuff was acquired or all of the content that was released. It's a shame Nintendo didn't release on their own terms, but chances are they were never going to.
But who's to say they wouldn't have? We did only just start getting these Mario and Zelda books detailing many bits of their histories.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
But who's to say they wouldn't have? We did only just start getting these Mario and Zelda books detailing many bits of their histories.
Hyrule Historia is 9 years old at this point.

Yes it's possible, but it's also something they could have done any time in the last 25 years and have shown essentially zero interest in.
 

LuigiMario

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,937
I don't understand why anyone but Nintendo would be upset by this. How is seeing long forgotten source code hurting the public?

Nintendo's frustration is very understandable though seeing how strict they are with their IP's image (look at the recent news of the Paper Mario series not being allowed to alter any official designs).

IMO sets a potentially bad prescedent of people targeting game companies to steal information for internet clout and "preservation." I think some of this stuff is fascinating but ultimately how it was obtained was kind of shitty.

It's possible to like something and also find it questionable, those things aren't mutually exclusive.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,474
Oh boy.

Might as well ask about it since you've got people on Discord who actually know how to look through this stuff; there's a "ZELDA" folder i've been curious about in the same directory as the Mario Kart 64 test (other > NEWS > テープリストア > NEWS_05 > home > watanabe > ZELDA); does this happen to come from that?

I'd have to guess that the folder refers to Tsuyoshi Watanabe; who was a background designer on ALttP and MOCAP System Director on OoT.
 

Handicapped Duck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
May 20, 2018
13,662
Ponds
It's Christmas in July right now, so much discovered and unearthed. Though that beta Yoshi design is the stuff of nightmares, but beta Baby Bowser was sweet, wish we had that for the final boss.
 

Midgarian

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2020
2,619
Midgar
As someone who is enjoying Super Mario 64 on Switch while on holiday and thought to myself "It would be nice to get more native ports of classic games" this is an absolute delight.
 
OP
OP
Lady Bow

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,296
Oh boy.

Might as well ask about it since you've got people on Discord who actually know how to look through this stuff; there's a "ZELDA" folder i've been curious about in the same directory as the Mario Kart 64 test (other > NEWS > テープリストア > NEWS_05 > home > watanabe > ZELDA); does this happen to come from that?

I'd have to guess that the folder refers to Tsuyoshi Watanabe; who was a background designer on ALttP and MOCAP System Director on OoT.

I believe that Zelda folder is just for one of the SNES ones.
 
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MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,474
Link model is in [other\NEWS\NEWS\テープリストア\NEWS_05\NEWS_05\home\watanabe\INDY\CADDATA\FUNDOSHI\KOIZUMI]

I believe that Zelda folder is just for one of the SNES ones.
Ah, interesting; hadn't checked the INDY folder. Considering the Star Fox stuff in there, i'm going to assume the Tsuyoshi Watanabe connection is accurate. Wonder what the Link model was for in that case; a Super FX test?

Yeah, I probably should've... looked at the dates in that ZELDA folder; the files range from 1990-1992, so i'd imagine those are Triforce of the Gods (A Link to the Past) assets, yeah.
 

Ohtsam

Member
Oct 18, 2018
24
A big reason Nintendo is so big on internal preservation is that games or prototypes from 30 years ago might have had ideas that didn't work at the time but would fit better with projects they're currently working on.
Problem is once an ideas public if it isn't patentable than your competition can use it too losing you your edge. Star Fox 2 for instance was mined for ideas and gameplay mechanics for decades despite not being formally released until a few years ago.
 
Feb 21, 2018
489
Has anyone compiled all the Diamond and Pearl beta sprites yet? Usually when a game releases we have full sprite sheets within 24 hours so I wonder what's the hold up.
 

P-Tux7

Member
Mar 11, 2019
1,344
Again, I'm not championing how this stuff was acquired or all of the content that was released. It's a shame Nintendo didn't release on their own terms, but chances are they were never going to.
Well, you said it yourself - chances are Nintendo would have never released this stuff "the right way". Would you support beta assets getting leaked if stuff like emails and source code weren't leaked?
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,781
I mean it's always great for emulation enthusiasts, but these leaks do not spark joy for me
 

Palazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,007
Ah, interesting; hadn't checked the INDY folder. Considering the Star Fox stuff in there, i'm going to assume the Tsuyoshi Watanabe connection is accurate. Wonder what the Link model was for in that case; a Super FX test?

Nintendo has said in the past that they once worked on a Super FX Zelda game (I think a remake of Zelda 2). That model might be tied to that.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
A big reason Nintendo is so big on internal preservation is that games or prototypes from 30 years ago might have had ideas that didn't work at the time but would fit better with projects they're currently working on.
Problem is once an ideas public if it isn't patentable than your competition can use it too losing you your edge. Star Fox 2 for instance was mined for ideas and gameplay mechanics for decades despite not being formally released until a few years ago.
Yep. And this can range from the most simplest idea to the most complex. It's very clear that Nintendo has used plenty of their old ideas in newer games and still continues to repurpose those old ideas into new things.

Here's one example of the most simplest effect being repurposed for a new game.

 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,168
Yep. And this can range from the most simplest idea to the most complex. It's very clear that Nintendo has used plenty of their old ideas in newer games and still continues to repurpose those old ideas into new things.

Here's one example of the most simplest effect being repurposed for a new game.



Damn, that's pretty crazy.

But you're right that Nintendo likes to return to the well for ideas. Yoshi was originally conceived for the first Super Mario Bros.
 

RomanceDawn

Teacher of Superheroines
Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,206
Los Angeles
Ok for real... What did Sakurai know about early development of Yoshi's Island? Thats how Smash Yoshi throws eggs! Is it just a coincidence ?!