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US carriers kill Google's RCS messaging initiative

Jun 20, 2019
589
This made sense once upon a time. But Android is a juggernaut now. Google could absolutely throw their weight around if they want to.

It's just depressing. I vastly prefer Android, but for the first time since I left iPhone with the 5s, I'm feeling the pressure to return...almost solely because of iMessage.
RCS is their best attempt yet and I hope it succeeds despite the roadblock.
 

inguef

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
12,674
The original argument was that iMessage was “shit anyway” and I interpreted that to mean it lacked features outside of the fact that it was platform limited. Given two users messaging back and forth on iMessage on Apple devices, what are they missing that WhatsApp users have?
You are talking to someone else.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,353
I have Signal installed to chat with just one person. I wish I could rename the app to his name just to properly represent the experience.
 

MajesticSoup

Member
Feb 22, 2019
965
The US has free SMS service so people don’t have to use a Facebook account for basic communication.
Its free everywhere. But I don’t think Americans like using sms either considering all the ‘green bubbles eww’ memes. SMS also doesn’t even cover basic since people still have the need to download discord for ‘basic’ communication.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,408
a sunken pirate ship
SMS should have always been free everywhere or at least inherent in service costs because of how SMS was baked into the functions that cell phones needed to have to work in the first place. For me the whole reason I use messaging apps other than default SMS comes down to the fact that SMS clients for PC or other devices that have keyboards have historically been bullshit, and smartphone keyboards even more so.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,291
New Orleans
Every other article I've read (including other articles from the Verge) state that CCMI is based on RCS and should be compatible with RCS based apps. The Sprint press release in the OP specifically states that CCMI is intended to:

Drive a robust business-to-consumer messaging ecosystem and accelerate the adoption of Rich Communications Services (RCS)

Even the article from the Verge in the OP states that:

The CCMI tells me that it plans to work with Google and others to ensure that their apps are compatible with its platform. It tells me that its text messages will be fully standards “based” and compatible with RCS around the world.
This thread is greatly mischaracterizing what's happening.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,357
Every other article I've read (including other articles from the Verge) state that CCMI is based on RCS and should be compatible with RCS based apps. The Sprint press release in the OP specifically states that CCMI is intended to:




Even the article from the Verge in the OP states that:



This thread is greatly mischaracterizing what's happening.

It also at no point ever says Googles current existing RCS platform will "stop working" or not work. It even goes as far as stating the phone companies said the system will be RCS compatible.

The only thing that happened here that I can tell is actually news is that the phone companies are banding together to launch their own RCS based messaging app that they will put on phones.

Nothing else changed. RCS didnt, die, fail, get removed or replaced. In fact this would signal its the future for even these carriers. But I guess the Verge needed another framing to try and convince more people to buy an iPhone lol.


Ops opening statetement of:

In short, Google/Android's last best hope for an iMessage equivalent have been dashed. (This is after Hangouts/Allo/etc. were laid to rest.)
Is Literally bullshit.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,257
Honest question: why doesn't Google just create an iMessage like app and bundle it with Play Services like Gmail and the like? Why even go to the trouble of working with carriers? Why not do what Apple did?
 
OP
OP
emag

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,686
Every other article I've read (including other articles from the Verge) state that CCMI is based on RCS and should be compatible with RCS based apps. The Sprint press release in the OP specifically states that CCMI is intended to:




Even the article from the Verge in the OP states that:



This thread is greatly mischaracterizing what's happening.
Pay attention to the corporate weasel words. Google's Messenger already fully supports RCS with UP per the actual standard. That Google will have to "work with" the consortium to support CCMI is ample evidence that "based" on standards doesn't mean 100% standards compliant. At best it's an Internet Explorer situation where Microsoft's version of HTML was "based" upon the W3C standard but not actually standards compliant. Note also that this wording was chosen specifically to answer an interview question regarding standards compliance.

Besides, Google's had an open, freely available RCS implementation tailored to carrier's networks available for years now. It wouldn't take until some time in 2020 for carriers to just flip the switch. Couple this with the carriers' explanation that CCMI will be able to monetize messaging (in a way that the existing system cannot) and it's pretty much a lock that carriers are fucking this up.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,357
User Warned: Antagonizing another member.
Pay attention to the corporate weasel words. Google's Messenger already fully supports RCS with UP per the actual standard. That Google will have to "work with" the consortium to support CCMI is ample evidence that "based" on standards doesn't mean 100% standards compliant. At best it's an Internet Explorer situation where Microsoft's version of HTML was "based" upon the W3C standard but not actually standards compliant.

Besides, Google's had an open, freely available RCS implementation tailored to carrier's networks available for years now. It wouldn't take until some time in 2020 for carriers to just flip the switch. Couple this with the carriers' explanation that CCMI will be able to monetize messaging (in a way that the existing system cannot) and it's pretty much a lock that carriers are fucking this up.

Nah you got busted making up shit mate. Your fabricated article title is garbage. Look at how this is reported everywhere:






And it doesn't matter if their app is only compatible with the standard instead of 100% because the carriers are not blocking RCS to begin with. You will be able to continue to keep using your Google RCS app as if nothing happened before during and after they launch their app. Yet you reported this as the death of RCS. They can monetize their own personal carrier app all they want. As long as the normal Google Play Messaging App continues supporting the full standard and functions, who the hell cares except for the imaginary people that actually use carrier apps.

This is like saying Netflix is dead because Verizon launched a video app that no one will use.

Stop it slime.
 

faceless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,549
Every other article I've read (including other articles from the Verge) state that CCMI is based on RCS and should be compatible with RCS based apps. The Sprint press release in the OP specifically states that CCMI is intended to:

Even the article from the Verge in the OP states that:

This thread is greatly mischaracterizing what's happening.
The thread is an accurate representation of the healthy distrust of US mobile carriers.
 
OP
OP
emag

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,686
Nah you got busted making up shit mate. Your fabricated article title is garbage. Look at how this is reported everywhere:






And it doesn't matter if their app is only compatible with the standard instead of 100% because the carriers are not blocking RCS to begin with. You will be able to continue to keep using your Google RCS app as if nothing happened before during and after they launch their app. Yet you reported this as the death of RCS. They can monetize their own personal carrier app all they want. As long as the normal Google Play Messaging App continues supporting the full standard and functions, who the hell cares except for the imaginary people that actually use carrier apps.

Stop it slime.
The current situation is that the US carriers prevent RCS from working on all but a handful of devices, despite the client software and hardware supporting it. If that is maintained ("as if nothing happened"), then RCS is indeed dead in the US.
 

Dosmo

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
108
I've never figured out what was wrong with Hangouts. I still use it with my google voice number.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,357
The current situation is that the US carriers prevent RCS from working on all but a handful of devices, despite the client software and hardware supporting it.

If you can get me a source for that then Ill be right there with you. Because I read 4 articles on this and the press release and I see no such announcement. This is the part I'm saying it looks like you fabricated. This is especially because the GM for CCMI literally told verge the opposite of what you are claiming here:

The Verge spoke with Doug Garland, general manager for the CCMI, to find out more about what this all means. RCS, if you don’t know, is wickedly complicated on the backend from both a technical and (more importantly) a political perspective. But the CCMI’s goal is to make all that go away for US consumers. Whether or not it can actually pull that off is more complicated.


First and foremost, CCMI intends to ship a new Android app next year that will likely be the new default messaging app for Android phones sold by those carriers. It will support all the usual RCS features like typing indicators, higher-resolution attachments, and better group chat. It should also be compatible with the global “Universal Profile” standard for RCS that has been adopted by other carriers around the world.


Garland says the CCMI will also work with other companies interested in RCS to make sure their clients are interoperable as well — notably Samsung and Google. That should mean that people who prefer Android Messages will be able to use that instead

I need a citation for your claim that the current situation is them blocking RCS when they are saying otherwise.
 
OP
OP
emag

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,686
I need a citation for your claim that the current situation is them blocking RCS when they are saying otherwise.
Are you serious? Ask almost anyone with an Android phone in the US. RCS messaging is disabled on the carrier side for virtually everyone.

There's a whole Reddit subforum /r/UniversalProfile to celebrate the few devices that the carriers have permitted. (There's also a list there.)
 

Keuja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,179
And with this, the US will further entrench themselves in another messaging ecosystem that no-one else into the world uses. In Asia and Europe, 100% of the people I know use whatsapp or viber regardless of whether they use iPhone or Android. Simply because it is a cross OS messenging app.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,087
It seems crazy to me to believe people still use text messages, but you do you USA.


Whatsapp is so ingrained to the economy that clothing stores create groups where they share their products daily, automated banking services and customer service is already available thru Whatsapp, you can create automated bots... Telegram also provides bots, groups, news feeds and many others.
 

Mik2121

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
Japan
I still find it so surprising that the US is stuck in SMS after everywhere has moved on so long ago. Nobody where I live (Japan) nor where I’m from (Spain) uses sms, that I know of.
 

Zerokoolpsx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,630
which offers the benefit of greater monetization opportunities (for the carriers)
Yeah, I'll stick to SMS. Sucks that the carriers are copying RCS and implementing their own version. I'm still using Google Hangouts until they finally pull the plug on it.
 

digdug2k

Member
Mar 28, 2018
702
The iMessage app has SMS fallback, which means that it (as an app) can be used to contact virtually anyone with a cell phone worldwide and can work with automated systems. That's how RCS was meant to work as well. It's true that the iMessage protocol features won't be available in such situations, but at least basic communication is possible. Also, full iMessage has by far the greatest reach of any messaging system in the US (besides SMS) -- only Facebook Messenger comes close.
Please don't use iMessage to write people who don't have iMessage. The experience is awful.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,143
Wouldn’t make any sense for Apple. What would they get out of it? Apple is a hardware company and iMessage is a huge selling point for iPhones.
I'd honestly pay a subscription for it if Apple ever offered it.

It seems crazy to me to believe people still use text messages, but you do you USA.

Whatsapp is so ingrained to the economy that clothing stores create groups where they share their products daily, automated banking services and customer service is already available thru Whatsapp, you can create automated bots... Telegram also provides bots, groups, news feeds and many others.
Carriers have way to much say here in the US.

Apple gets away with it because they control everything about the iPhone and will hold it away from carriers if said carriers defy Apple.

Google didn't (and still doesn't) have that luxury.

People don't go out of their way to get a Pixel like they do for the iPhone.

They could tell the hardware manufacturers what to do through licensing agreements regarding Android, but there's really nothing they can do about the carriers. Verizon is still going to put their messaging app on all their phones as the default app. All they would have to do is say we're not carrying this phone and every manufacturer will cave.

Until that stranglehold gets broken, we're fucked.

I still find it so surprising that the US is stuck in SMS after everywhere has moved on so long ago. Nobody where I live (Japan) nor where I’m from (Spain) uses sms, that I know of.
We're stuck with it because it's the only option that works on every phone out of the box.

There's no setting up a separate account
No downloading 3rd party apps
It's not dependent on a specific platform
It just works (and for a lot of people, that matters)

The only downside is that its outdated as shit.
 
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Contrite

Member
Dec 12, 2017
116
Well, that's certainly annoying. Was quite hopeful when I saw the major carrier here in Norway talking about RCS quite a while ago.

To the "everyone uses whatsapp" people; that ain't an universal truth. I know like two people who actually use it, the rest just use SMS/Messenger.

Makes me miss the days of third-party IM-clients that would just like.. work with anything.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,223
The iMessage app has SMS fallback, which means that it (as an app) can be used to contact virtually anyone with a cell phone worldwide and can work with automated systems. That's how RCS was meant to work as well. It's true that the iMessage protocol features won't be available in such situations, but at least basic communication is possible. Also, full iMessage has by far the greatest reach of any messaging system in the US (besides SMS) -- only Facebook Messenger comes close.
For the longest time I would just get garbled text instead of messages from people. I then found out that they were using iMessage. Because I had the gall to have a Mac and and Android phone iMessage just wouldn't send messages to me.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,143
there's this small town called the EU that's been on their ass about tying shit to other shit so they are avoiding it if possible
That and it still wouldn't matter, as bloatware would still be a thing, thus confusing people.

You'd be looking at three messaging apps on a Samsung phone sold from Verizon as an example (Google's, Samsung's and Verizon's).

There's nothing Google could do to prevent Samsung or Verizon from adding their apps to the phone.

iMessage works as well as it does because

A) its set as the default

B) Apple has it locked to their platform
 

faceless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,549
If you can get me a source for that then Ill be right there with you. Because I read 4 articles on this and the press release and I see no such announcement. This is the part I'm saying it looks like you fabricated. This is especially because the GM for CCMI literally told verge the opposite of what you are claiming here:


I need a citation for your claim that the current situation is them blocking RCS when they are saying otherwise.
I will assume that you legitimately did not know that this was a known issue and reply in hood faith.

Carriers have been fucking around and are only moving now under the threat of Google going on without them.







 

faceless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,549
It seems crazy to me to believe people still use text messages, but you do you USA.

Whatsapp is so ingrained to the economy that clothing stores create groups where they share their products daily, automated banking services and customer service is already available thru Whatsapp, you can create automated bots... Telegram also provides bots, groups, news feeds and many others.
over half of my contacts use SMS.

The rest use WhatsApp or Hangouts.

The main thing in common with the majority of my contacts that use WhstsApp is we are either immigrants or the descendants of them with family and friends outside of the US.
 

Scheris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
441
Considering FB owns WhatsApp, that’s a negative for me. That and the last time I tried using it, the app wouldn’t let me do anything until I would accept to have my contacts uploaded to their servers. None of the other messaging apps I’ve used in the past forced that to be done.

I only use iMessage to contact my parents and one friend, everyone else is on Discord that I talk to.

Nearly everyone at my work uses WhatsApp, but that’s to be expected since a lot of them came originally from South America or were born in the US and have family in South America.