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US carriers kill Google's RCS messaging initiative

JealousKenny

Member
Jul 17, 2018
1,184
Except they do. Americans may not be using WhatsApp, but group chat apps are popular. How many fantasy football leagues communicate via sms/mms groups? That’s just a headache.
Those apps are being used by a specific subset of people for a specific purpose. How many of the people in that fantasy football chat then make it a mission to get everyone they know outside of that group to download that specific chat app and use it full time. Not many are successful.

When I go on a guy's trip with a group of friends we use whatsapp. Then after the trip is over we stop using it. In my case I delete the app altogether. You might ask, well if your friends are using the app why don't yall keep it and use that. We'll because we don't want to use multiple chat apps on a routine basis.
 
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Kozmo

Member
Jan 5, 2018
58
I think the plead non US era is making is:
Everyone just install WhatsApp already. Stop settling for SMS, and to iPhone users, stop enabling this green bubble stigma to go on for your fellow countrymen. If everyone would see the benefits, you'd eliminate the problem of "no one uses it". This was at one point a problem for everywhere else in the world, but everywhere else in the world got over it. WhatsApp might not be not elegant than iMessage, but the world would actually be a better place without iMessage. Do it for humanity.
 

MajesticSoup

Member
Feb 22, 2019
965
Those apps are being used by a specific subset of people for a specific purpose. How many of the people in that fantasy football chat then make it a mission to get everyone they know outside of that group to download that specific chat app and use it full time. Not many are successful.

When I go on a guy's trip with a group of friends we use whatsapp. Then after the trip is over we stop using it. In my case I delete the app altogether.
The specific purpose being.. messaging. Yes.
So people only like talking in groups when theyre on a trip what? sounds like youre the exception here, not the norm.

Glad this apple elitism is a thing, green bubbles deserve it for their stubbornness.
 
OP
OP
emag

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,685
I think the plead non US era is making is:
Everyone just install WhatsApp already. Stop settling for SMS, and to iPhone users, stop enabling this green bubble stigma to go on for your fellow countrymen. If everyone would see the benefits, you'd eliminate the problem of "no one uses it". This was at one point a problem for everywhere else in the world, but everywhere else in the world got over it. WhatsApp might not be not elegant than iMessage, but the world would actually be a better place without iMessage. Do it for humanity.
You mean Signal. You all need to get with the program.

WhatsApp is awful for reasons too numerous and lengthy to get into here.
 

JealousKenny

Member
Jul 17, 2018
1,184
The specific purpose being.. messaging. Yes.
So people only like talking in groups when theyre on a trip what? sounds like youre the exception here, not the norm.

Glad this apple elitism is a thing, green bubbles deserve it for their stubbornness.
You are missing the point. Point being the downloaded chat app is not being used as the default app for chatting. The overwhelming majority of Americans use the default chat app even in cases where we have been exposed to options such as Whatsapp.

Saying Whatsapp is popular and it will be easy to get people to switch to it due to its popularity in fantasy sports league is so off base its laughable. The use of the app is segmented off to that specific purpose, fantasy football, not chatting as a whole.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,996
I think the plead non US era is making is:
Everyone just install WhatsApp already. Stop settling for SMS, and to iPhone users, stop enabling this green bubble stigma to go on for your fellow countrymen. If everyone would see the benefits, you'd eliminate the problem of "no one uses it". This was at one point a problem for everywhere else in the world, but everywhere else in the world got over it. WhatsApp might not be not elegant than iMessage, but the world would actually be a better place without iMessage. Do it for humanity.
In lot of cases, that'd be a step back. The various SMS/MMS apps that people use often have a shit ton of features that Whatapp and Signal lack. If Joe goes to me and says "hey, text me at 4:45', I can literally queue up a message on Textra and have it automatically send at 4:45 instead of having to do it manually; and that's just one function. And if you're a person who changes colors and all that either for preference or for visions sake, you get broader options there, too. Options that Whatsapp pale in comparison to without resulting in using third party apps and themes that no doubt will end up breaking once Whatsapp updates.

Then there's the fact that some people just don't want to use products by Facebook.

Most people would be better off finding a cheap Mac and using it as an iMessage server with AirMessages on both the computer and their Android phone instead of being beholden to Facebook when they don't want or need to be.
 

Vilix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,261
Texas
In all my time on internet forums I’ve never seen people shaming others for sending green text bubbles.
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
753

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,143
I think the plead non US era is making is:
Everyone just install WhatsApp already. Stop settling for SMS, and to iPhone users, stop enabling this green bubble stigma to go on for your fellow countrymen. If everyone would see the benefits, you'd eliminate the problem of "no one uses it". This was at one point a problem for everywhere else in the world, but everywhere else in the world got over it. WhatsApp might not be not elegant than iMessage, but the world would actually be a better place without iMessage. Do it for humanity.
And the point they're not getting is it's not that simple.

I will never be able to get my mother in law to switch, no matter how better it is, because she wouldn't care. What she has works for her and that's good enough for her.

It would be fantastic if the entire US decided on a message app, but the world doesn't work that way.

The only way your going to get people in the US to change from SMS is to either

A) Start charging them for SMS/MMS messages, which would force people to look to free alternatives (Facebook would love that)

B) The carriers take control (like they're appearing to), disable the old SMS/MMS protocols and move to something new.

People aren't going to migrate to a new app if what they have works for them.
 

Kozmo

Member
Jan 5, 2018
58
And the point they're not getting is it's not that simple.

I will never be able to get my mother in law to switch, no matter how better it is, because she wouldn't care. What she has works for her and that's good enough for her.

It would be fantastic if the entire US decided on a message app, but the world doesn't work that way.

The only way your going to get people in the US to change from SMS is to either

A) Start charging them for SMS/MMS messages, which would force people to look to free alternatives (Facebook would love that)

B) The carriers take control (like they're appearing to), disable the old SMS/MMS protocols and move to something new.

People aren't going to migrate to a new app if what they have works for them.
Agreed 100%. It won't be simple at all. That's why it's nothing now than a simple plead. The more people adopt, the easier it becomes for the stubborn holdouts to cave. Old senile people exist all over the world, but once society has agreed on a standard the old folks eventually give in (or pass away into irrelevance). Could you have imagined these same old people even using a smartphone just 10 years ago?
 

Red Fire

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,604
Lol SMS in 2019

Whatsapp basically covers everything and is the easiest solution for all of these "problems". US man.
 

Gamespawn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
386
All of you green bubbles need to decide on what you’re going to do so everyone else can get onboard.
 

faceless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,549
Why would Apple support RCS?

Also, how would RCS fallback from iMessage even work in a group chat?
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,143
Lol SMS in 2019

Whatsapp basically covers everything and is the easiest solution for all of these "problems". US man.
Yes, it does, that was never the problem.

Now tell me how we're going to force people, who don't want to change their messaging app, to change.

They don't care that WhatsApp is better. What they have works for them and that's good enough for them.

We can preach to high heaven the benefits that moving to WhatsApp provides, it won't help.

I mostly use Facebook Messenger as my main messaging app, but still have to use SMS to message my mother in law. As I've mentioned multiple times in this thread, no matter what I do, she's so resistant to change that she will actively fight against it.

You're going to have to force these people to change and the only way to do that is to hit them in their pocket book or just pull the rug out from under them.

They're not going to do it willingly.

For WhatsApp to become the main messaging service in the USA, the following has to happen.

It needs to be the only messaging app on both iPhone and Android. This will never happen for a multitude of reasons.
 
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Katsubento

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,892
On the rock that spews lava...
Oct 26, 2017
1,677
Lol SMS in 2019

Whatsapp basically covers everything and is the easiest solution for all of these "problems". US man.
Except for the fact that it introduces a whole new problem about using a private messaging app owned by a company that has proven repeatedly that it doesn’t give two shits about your privacy or about telling you when they’ve been hacked and your private information has been compromised.
 
Oct 28, 2017
938
Siloam Springs
which offers the benefit of greater monetization opportunities (for the carriers). Whether this translates to access fees, spam, or in-app advertising is unclear
No thanks carriers, I'll stick to SMS. If you nerf SMS, and hurt my future business dealings along with it, I will immediately go to the nearest store that will sell me a whatever top of the line Apple phone and sadly move on from my Note series.

It would be nice to have a default app that has guaranteed in-order delivery, high-resolution attachments, read/typing indicators, group controls, etc., that is also backwards compatible with what everyone else uses.
It would be awesome if the manufacturers worked together to make something akin to iMessage that was compatible.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,944
No thanks carriers, I'll stick to SMS. If you nerf SMS, and hurt my future business dealings along with it, I will immediately go to the nearest store that will sell me a whatever top of the line Apple phone and sadly move on from my Note series.
So you’ll punish Samsung over something the carriers decided to do?
 
Oct 28, 2017
938
Siloam Springs
So you’ll punish Samsung over something the carriers decided to do?
Let me flesh out my thought process more. This silly for letter acronym that the carriers are building for monetization will undoubtedly force out SMS. If SMS, which as of now is very difficult to force adds and extra monetization options, is forced out then I have one less avenues to work with my clients.

My hope is that the manufacturers decide to come together to make a messaging application that would be compatible across phones and cut out the middle man that is the carriers.

I would not be punishing Samsung, I would be protecting my business, my income, my family's way to pay the bills.
 

Red Fire

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,604
Except for the fact that it introduces a whole new problem about using a private messaging app owned by a company that has proven repeatedly that it doesn’t give two shits about your privacy or about telling you when they’ve been hacked and your private information has been compromised.
How are Apple and Google any better than Facebook in that regard? They all store your private data let's be real here.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,938
How are Apple and Google any better than Facebook in that regard? They all store your private data let's be real here.
Arguably Apple doesn't care about your data because it's not a big part of their business and they seem to be pro privacy. Also you could say it also doesn't make a difference with Google and Facebook since end to end encryption is in use with Whatsapp or whatever but I still find it hard to believe Facebook doesn't want that data one day or in a roundabout way still gets it but I'm no expert, maybe it isn't possible but knowing they are in the data business, it seems like something they would do.
 

Kareha

Member
Jun 15, 2018
1,103
United Kingdom
Do remember that SMS/RCS has no end-to-end encryption, unlike WhatsApp, FBM, Telegraph. iMessage has it to but only if its between Apple devices.
 

Axelotl

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,468
Hamm, Germany
But people do and that's one of the reasons people love iMessage so much. You guys are missing one of the best features and one of the shortcomings without understanding how things are elsewhere. It's amazing how you can't grasp it. Let me lay it out in a simple way.

With Whatsapp, you need to know if the person has Whatsapp or not when trying to contact them. With iMessage you don't need to know if they have iMessage for it to work. iMessage just works and figures out the right protocol to send the message to in the background. If the person has iMesssage, it sends it that way, if they don't because they're on Android, it sends an SMS instead. It's completely seamless and the person just sends a message to their contact without having to think about it. Whatsapp doesn't do that in the case where someone doesn't have Whatsapp. That's the barrier and how it's less elegant. You can like Whatsapp all you want but there's no denying that iMessage is much more elegant and seamless with trying to send someone a message.
But everyone here has WhatsApp ;)

i would not want to send a message through iMessage here just tobe disappointed that this person has no iPhone which are about 80% here.
 

amanset

Member
Oct 28, 2017
969
Texting was basically always free here so we never needed a specialized app. And what we have is good enough.
And I get that's kind of the thing. SMS is free for me within Sweden, but I have friends all over the world and that's when SMS gets expensive. Frankly I don't want to fallback on SMS as suddenly it'll start costing me.

Out of interest, can Americans SMS internationally for free? Hell, even if they can the likelihood is that the person they are sending an SMS to can't reply for free. That's where the non-SMS based services come in.
 

amanset

Member
Oct 28, 2017
969
Do remember that SMS/RCS has no end-to-end encryption, unlike WhatsApp, FBM, Telegraph. iMessage has it to but only if its between Apple devices.

Telgram offers end to end but only for "secret chats". The reasons why are epxlained here:
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
753
Out of interest, can Americans SMS internationally for free? Hell, even if they can the likelihood is that the person they are sending an SMS to can't reply for free. That's where the non-SMS based services come in.
Americans generally don't need to deal with international people that's why it's a none issue for the most. I turn off my sms when I'm aboard all the time. Some of the more recent plans can have unlimited international sms though. But I'd never send sms to international friends.
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,536
I don’t even know if I have free international sms. I know I have unlimited text, other than that...

Most of my friends use Facebook Messenger anyways.
 

amanset

Member
Oct 28, 2017
969
Well there is another thing. There are huge swaths of this country where it's extremely rural for hundreds of miles at at a time and you will have voice but no data
I guess, but it is still surprising to me. I live in one of the least densely populated countries in Europe (50th of 54 according to this) but even when far up north, in the middle of nowhere, I still seem to have data.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,143
I guess, but it is still surprising to me. I live in one of the least densely populated countries in Europe (50th of 54 according to this) but even when far up north, in the middle of nowhere, I still seem to have data.
A lot of people forget how big the US is. There's vast amounts of nothingness in the Great Plains and cell service in some of these areas is spotty at best.
 

amanset

Member
Oct 28, 2017
969
A lot of people forget how big the US is. There's vast amounts of nothingness in the Great Plains and cell service in some of these areas is spotty at best.
Yes and people don't realise quite how sparse and empty this country is. The US, with all its space, has a population density of 1.5 times ours.
 

bananas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
838
Sorry for the bump, but I've been away from the internet for a bit and wanted to chime in while something else,

This problem is also a big factor in driving American teenagers to choose iPhones over Android.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-popularity-teens-piper-jaffray-2018-4 (paywall)

From the article:

"82% of American teenagers currently own an iPhone, the highest percentage ever in the history of a Piper Jaffray study about teens."

While Apple already had a higher share of American marketshare compared to the rest of the world, amongst younger people its absolutely dominating Android.
 

sangreal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,417
Yes and people don't realise quite how sparse and empty this country is. The US, with all its space, has a population density of 1.5 times ours.
It's about absolute size not overall relative density. There are extremely densely populated parts of the US and there are probably parts where nobody at all lives within an area the size of Sweden's footprint. Alaska alone is 3x the size of Sweden and less than 1/10 the population
 

amanset

Member
Oct 28, 2017
969
It's about absolute size not overall relative density. There are extremely densely populated parts of the US and there are probably parts where nobody at all lives within an area the size of Sweden's footprint. Alaska alone is 3x the size of Sweden and less than 1/10 the population
Yes, and Anchorage has a population a tenth of Stockholm's. But all the populated areas are down south. There's a fuckload up north with next to nobody, mountains all over the place and still you tend to be able to get data.

But remember, I'm not saying that everywhere in the US is more densely populated than Sweden. I'm saying you, which is common amongst Americans, have no idea how sparsely populated this place is. Europe isn't all huge cities packed together. I've been to the US, I've had the joys of flying over the midwest where there's no sign of settlements from a plane. Have you been up north in Sweden? Inside the Arctic Circle? And seen how little this is around. I have.
 

MrChillaxx

Member
Jan 13, 2018
85
This "I don't want to install Apps on my phone" mentality is just bonkers. Y'all install plenty of Candy Crushes and whatnot, but you can't use a different chat app and ditch prehistoric SMSes that are only decent if you are an Apple user?

The rest of the entire world is doing it, why is the US always roleplaying the special child? *cries in imperial system*