US Department of Defense confirms it targeted/killed Qasem Soleimani, commander of Iran's Quds Force, outside Baghdad Airport

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Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,055
Impeachment is so last year lol!

no one cares about that shit anymore.

this dude really I rolling with this plan
 

Shambalakan

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,591
When Trump mentioned the end of 52 cultural sites TWICE, he probably meant all the McDonald’s in Tehran, cause that is the extent of his “culture”.
But there isn't any McDonald's in Iran! You can see Coca Cola, Pepsi and American cigarettes everywhere, but McDonald's? Nope. Maybe they see it as the most important cultural thing of US!
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
871
Shout out to the guy earlier in the thread who said that defense contractors don't have any real effect on war mongering in this country.
which poster was it, i want to call them an idiot

edit: from my chair irl, not in a post. which is completely 110% a-ok
If you're referring to me I still stand by what I said, I think it's one of the smaller factors. I was responding to someone who said all of this is happening was "because of capitalism," which I find as short sighted as someone saying racism is because of capitalism, which some people also say!

I'll put it the same way I put it last time, people who stand to profit from war definitely have a vested interest in creating wars. Of course. I don't deny this is true. But not everyone is some amoral piece of shit that cares not for war but for what money is to be made. Some people, gasp, may join the military, may join a military contractor, work for the Department of Defense, not for profit but because they believe in war. That they can also profit from it is a nice side bonus for these types of people. They definitely have a conflict of interest but to imply that all of their interests are financial is absurd and naive.

Further, there are several countries with somewhat established arms companies that don't engage in the same shenanigans as the United States. You don't see Sweden fighting tons of proxy wars to sell more Gripens and they're a capitalist country. So it's not that capitalism is causing any of this shit.

The simple truth was like I said in my post, there is something rotten in American society that we're going to need to face up to. It's not like I would ever be against nationalizing these entities, removing their profit incentive, eliminating conflicts of interests in elected or appointed government positions or anything like that, they'd all be great things to do, but they in no way shape of form are why we're such a militant country that fetishizes violence and war and has an inflated sense of righteousness and entitlement on the world stage, they just get to profit from it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,302
Yup. Trump wants the UN to be useless and even disbanded because thats what Putin wants.
Lol, I'm sure Russia wants to give up their UNSC veto. They are at the end of the day a country with a smaller economy then Canada and Italy and are staring down aging infrastructure and the possibility of (relatively) rapid contraction in global demand for oil. Hardly an economic superpower.

Republicans are perfectly capable of wanting the UN gone on their own.
 

ItsBobbyDarin

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,614
Egyptian residing in Denmark
If you're referring to me I still stand by what I said, I think it's one of the smaller factors. I was responding to someone who said all of this is happening was "because of capitalism," which I find as short sighted as someone saying racism is because of capitalism, which some people also say!

I'll put it the same way I put it last time, people who stand to profit from war definitely have a vested interest in creating wars. Of course. I don't deny this is true. But not everyone is some amoral piece of shit that cares not for war but for what money is to be made. Some people, gasp, may join the military, may join a military contractor, work for the Department of Defense, not for profit but because they believe in war. That they can also profit from it is a nice side bonus for these types of people. They definitely have a conflict of interest but to imply that all of their interests are financial is absurd and naive.

Further, there are several countries with somewhat established arms companies that don't engage in the same shenanigans as the United States. You don't see Sweden fighting tons of proxy wars to sell more Gripens and they're a capitalist country. So it's not that capitalism is causing any of this shit.

The simple truth was like I said in my post, there is something rotten in American society that we're going to need to face up to. It's not like I would ever be against nationalizing these entities, removing their profit incentive, eliminating conflicts of interests in elected or appointed government positions or anything like that, they'd all be great things to do, but they in no way shape of form are why we're such a militant country that fetishizes violence and war and has an inflated sense of righteousness and entitlement on the world stage, they just get to profit from it.
Good post.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,302
If you're referring to me I still stand by what I said, I think it's one of the smaller factors. I was responding to someone who said all of this is happening was "because of capitalism," which I find as short sighted as someone saying racism is because of capitalism, which some people also say!

I'll put it the same way I put it last time, people who stand to profit from war definitely have a vested interest in creating wars. Of course. I don't deny this is true. But not everyone is some amoral piece of shit that cares not for war but for what money is to be made. Some people, gasp, may join the military, may join a military contractor, work for the Department of Defense, not for profit but because they believe in war. That they can also profit from it is a nice side bonus for these types of people. They definitely have a conflict of interest but to imply that all of their interests are financial is absurd and naive.

Further, there are several countries with somewhat established arms companies that don't engage in the same shenanigans as the United States. You don't see Sweden fighting tons of proxy wars to sell more Gripens and they're a capitalist country. So it's not that capitalism is causing any of this shit.

The simple truth was like I said in my post, there is something rotten in American society that we're going to need to face up to. It's not like I would ever be against nationalizing these entities, removing their profit incentive, eliminating conflicts of interests in elected or appointed government positions or anything like that, they'd all be great things to do, but they in no way shape of form are why we're such a militant country that fetishizes violence and war and has an inflated sense of righteousness and entitlement on the world stage, they just get to profit from it.
That's all true. Why capitalism is the issue is that at the macro level the logic of creating shareholder value and projecting continuous growth create a bottom line that military industrial and pmc firms are better off when war happens.
It isn't some cartoonish conspiracy, it's a piece of the underlying structures of interest which constitutes the modern capitalist economy.

That isn't to say that anyone wants war with Iran. Only that more conflict means more value for these companies so their general position will general be pro conflict.
 

Candescence

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
graveyards are full with people who couldn’t be replaced.
Dunno if you mean "there's no such thing as an irreplaceable man" or not, but Vetinari Job Security isn't just a trope that happens in fiction. Louis XIV, Otto von Bismarck, etc. There are many examples of leaders who were extremely competent but never properly ensured that they had a legitimately competent successor - Louis' successors lacked his eye for talent and his ability to manage his ministers and the state, and Bismarck was removed from his position by a significantly less competent Kaiser, which was a huge factor in how World War I came about.

I have no idea if Soleimani had a competent second in command in place. But the man was extremely well-connected and had a devious and cunning mind, losing that is no small thing for Iran, even if the overall consequences end up being in its favor.

That being said, when it comes to a hostile adversary, you never should ignore the possibility of them doing what the US did to Soleimani. But I wouldn't be surprised if Soleimani felt at least a little invincible, due to his popularity and how the US wouldn't consider touching him due to the ramifications... Normally. Problem is, Donald Trump is simply not like his predecessors, he often leaps before he looks, and that's how we got here. He wanted his own Bin Laden moment, and now Soleimani is dead, and there's a good possibility that Soleimani and Iran never properly prepared for this possibility because they didn't think even Trump was so reckless.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
871
That's all true. Why capitalism is the issue is that at the macro level the logic of creating shareholder value and projecting continuous growth create a bottom line that military industrial and pmc firms are better off when war happens.
It isn't some cartoonish conspiracy, it's a piece of the underlying structures of interest which constitutes the modern capitalist economy.

That isn't to say that anyone wants war with Iran. Only that more conflict means more value for these companies so their general position will general be pro conflict.
I don't think what you're saying is a cartoonish conspiracy, I believe it happens, I get how capitalism works. My own employer is the same way we just don't make fucking weapons, but I get it. Just, Capitalism isn't the issue.

I'm a Democratic Socialist voting for Bernie in the primary this March but this is one of the things that enrages me about other Socialist types, thinking this pie in the sky shit that capitalism is the root of our evils when it's not. It definitely exacerbates the problems in our society but it's not really causing them. Some people are living in a fantasy world where we can win the election, pass a few laws and implement some socialist reforms and all our problems will just go away because the problem was never with us but our system, we were fine all along! If. Fucking. Only.

There's several countries with modern, longstanding defense companies that do not behave the same way as the United States and there have been countries that weren't capitalist that acted exactly like the United States. All capitalism does is amplify the problem but that's it. Same with racism, Communist countries have been racist. Past people with no recognizable economy have been racist. I'm tired about hearing how racism will all die down once we unite the working class and stop pitting us all against each other. Unions have done some great work and in the United States many were at the forefront before and during the Civil Rights era, doesn't stop Union workers from putting up nooses in GM plants. So it'll be with our forever wars. They come from a deeper place than our economic model.

We should of course move away from Capitalism, not because we should believe it'll stop our endless wars but because it's the right thing to do for the planet and our citizens.

If you know conservatives who are ok with police brutality ask them what financial gain they've received from it. Fact is, most white conservatives don't think they benefit at all from it, they just believe in "law and order," they don't even recognize what's happening there. Ask a conservative who's happy with Trump's stance with Iran how much stock they have with Raytheon and I guarantee most won't have any, they don't believe they're going to profit financially from any conflict. Ask how much money they expect to receive from pillaging Iraq or Syria's oil, again the answer is zero. Of course the country as a whole does indeed benefit from pillaging resources from other countries and the white status quo does benefit from the harassment of minorities but your average conservative voter doesn't see any of that. For them it's about face, respect, nationalism and getting to go around chanting USA while feeling they're on the top of the world. All this money that Haliburton, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Oshkosh, Raytheon, Xe, they're not seeing any of it, likely don't know anyone getting any of it and it isn't factoring into their support at all. And while politicians and the corporations do directly benefit none of our Senators and Representatives could go out on TV and make pro-war statements and sell them to the public if their base didn't already want to buy it. If it was just capitalism they'd want a check too. It isn't.
These are idiots who will make fun of people worried about climate change by rolling coal on their fucking trucks. These are people that are ok with their fellow citizens getting killed by the city or county police because they didn't show enough respect, they don't give a shit about an Iraqi, Iranian or anyone else and if they're ok with you getting killed for giving a cop lip they're sure as fuck fine with killing foreigners who are adversarial against the country. They love sharing shitty memes like "possible nuke area.jpg." When a large portion of your population would be ok with turning countries into glass getting them to "settle" to a few decades long instability is a pretty fucking easy sell. These people are our real enemies, the likes of Lockheed Martin are small fry and way easier to reign in than these voters who have a disproportionate share of the vote are.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,725
Lol, I'm sure Russia wants to give up their UNSC veto. They are at the end of the day a country with a smaller economy then Canada and Italy and are staring down aging infrastructure and the possibility of (relatively) rapid contraction in global demand for oil. Hardly an economic superpower.

Republicans are perfectly capable of wanting the UN gone on their own.
As long as Vlad and his oligarchs are making money nothing else matters. They're a crime syndicate not a traditional government.

And in a hypothetical scenario where the UN becomes meaningless, losing veto on the UNSC won't matter.
 

Green Yoshi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,555
Cologne (Germany)

KUON

Member
Oct 30, 2017
113
Midgar
I'm so disappointing with these people, worshiping their captors. Fuckin stupid people.
Get off your high horse.

The US is acting like a violent dictatorship currently, and you have the audacity to call others captors?

Trump ordered a military/terrorist attack on a foreign governemt's general without congress approval or anything. Smells like a dictatorship to me.

Edit:

Don't get me wrong. I am in no way pro Iran or some shit. But it's time that the US hegemony comes to an end.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
A fucking stampede killing 35 people? Security must have been horrible

Just to get the ordering right so we're not ignoring cause and effect :

US made crazy and possibly illegal decision to assassinate a foreign target in a separate country.

Trump then threatened illegal strikes on cultural /civilian targets.

Iran set up funeral as a visible response to US aggression designed to show grief and popularity of Suleimani - he's not universally beloved but the state funeral obviously designed to look that way - it's rushed (Islamic funerals have to happen quickly by rule) and the combination of real and whipped up hysteria Ina rushed event leads to inevitable tragic outcome - we have similar fatalities at concerts here - and this happens almost every year in Mecca at the hajj. It's almost unavoidable with crowds so big.

So we're directly responsible for the need for the funeral -- but Iran is responsible for how it was arranged and carried out as a piece of retaliatory propaganda. It was avoidable and predictable (not deliberate however).

And cynically speaking this further tragic loss of life is feeding into the narrative Iran wants to create about the US right now so while they certainly didn't want this outcome - they're going to use it. It will harden attitudes towards America that probably extend beyond local sectarian divides and will probably make Sunnis more sympathetic to Iran (they sure didn't love Suleimani).

This is a disaster for everyone at every level with global implications and all because we hired literally one of the worst American citizens alive to be the president.
 

Hodgy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,879
UK
imagine if another country just went and dropped a bomb on Henry Kissinger for all the shit he's pulled over the years! It's insane that the US did this.
 

Anomander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
460
Get off your high horse.

The US is acting like a violent dictatorship currently, and you have the audacity to call others captors?

Trump ordered a military/terrorist attack on a foreign governemt's general without congress approval or anything. Smells like a dictatorship to me.

Edit:

Don't get me wrong. I am in no way pro Iran or some shit. But it's time that the US hegemony comes to an end.
I have every right to call out my stupid countrymen. Islamic Republic was/is and will be a violent dictatorship, as they've shown recently by opening fire on protesters and killing hundreds just last month.

US and its imperialism bullshit can go to hell as well for all I care.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
8,825
If true, it might be time to move the UN headquarters out of the US. This is just hindering the entire function of the UN, all because Trump is throwing a hissy fit.
I don't support denying him the visa, but Iran has permanent UN representation in NY, whether he is there or not doesn't change that.
 

Mister0079

Member
Oct 28, 2017
82
I have every right to call out my stupid countrymen. Islamic Republic was/is and will be a violent dictatorship, as they've shown recently by opening fire on protesters and killing hundreds just last month.

US and its imperialism bullshit can go to hell as well for all I care.
agreed, we're getting 40 more years of this islamic republic bullshit at this rate. bunch of koskhols on every side
 

Rocket Man

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,715
I have every right to call out my stupid countrymen. Islamic Republic was/is and will be a violent dictatorship, as they've shown recently by opening fire on protesters and killing hundreds just last month.

US and its imperialism bullshit can go to hell as well for all I care.
Unfortunately, killing Suleimani was the best thing the US could've done for the regime.
 

GSG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,285
I don't support denying him the visa, but Iran has permanent UN representation in NY, whether he is there or not doesn't change that.
The US is still in violation of the 1947 UN headquarters agreement if they deny Zarif a visa, despite Iran having a permanent UN representative.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,916
London
Get off your high horse.

The US is acting like a violent dictatorship currently, and you have the audacity to call others captors?

Trump ordered a military/terrorist attack on a foreign governemt's general without congress approval or anything. Smells like a dictatorship to me.

Edit:

Don't get me wrong. I am in no way pro Iran or some shit. But it's time that the US hegemony comes to an end.
US fucking with the region has to end but you shouldn't really be defending the Islamic Republic of Iran and its government either.
 

Wag

Member
Nov 3, 2017
6,324
They’re playing victims again.

Nobody (with common sense) believes anything that comes from the WH anyways.
 
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