US hip hop star Talib Kweli has been disinvited from a German music festival after refusing to denounce the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS)

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,902
Terana
Been a huge Talib fan since Blackstar and Quality seen him play here a bunch of times. Love him for reasons like this. He's a great follow on twitter too. It's not just some woke act. He walks that walk.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,642
It's deeply fucking ironic that identifying the state of Israel with all Jews is (correctly) called antisemitic, and yet it is one of the most common tactics used by the Israeli state and its defenders to discredit criticisms of the actions of Israel.
 

des0lar

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
108
TAZ

BS Anne Frank

Tagesspiegel

German articles, sorry, but I’m at work and don’t have much time to google for English ones at the moment.
I have looked only over the Tagesspiegel article, but I wonder if you have even read it yourself? It's utter garbage.

They try to downplay regressive and discriminatory laws, because the source offers some which are questionable? What about this shit then?
  1. 1950 law about confiscation of Absentee Landlord Property. This law defines persons who were expelled, fled, or who left the country after November 29, 1947 as “absentee.” Property belonging to “absentees” was placed under the control of the State of Israel with the Custodian for Absentees’ Property. The Absentee Property Law was the main legal instrument used by Israel to take possession of the land belonging to the internal and external Palestinian refugees, and Muslim Waqf properties across the state. This law continues to be used to this day by quasi-governmental agencies in Israel to take over Palestinian properties in East Jerusalem, for example.

  1. 1950 Law of Return. This allows every Jewish person to immigrate to Israel and this extends to the children and grandchildren of Jews, as well as their spouses, and the spouses of their children and grandchildren. The flip side of this is that the rights of Palestinians and others to enter the state and become citizens, even if they were born in the area that is now the State of Israel, are extremely restrictive. This discrimination against the non-Jewish minority has been periodically reinforced. For example, the ban on family unification law of 2003 prohibits citizens of Israel from reuniting with Palestinian spouses living in the West Bank or Gaza.

  1. In 1952 the state authorized the World Zionist Organization, the Jewish Agency, and other Zionist bodies founded at the turn of the 20th century to function in Israel as quasi-governmental entities in order to further advance the goals of the Zionist movement, to the detriment of minorities.

  1. The Land Acquisition Law of 1953 transferred the land of 349 Arab towns and villages—approximately 1.2 million dunams in all (~468 square miles)—to the state to be used preferentially for the Jewish majority.

  1. In 1953, the Knesset bestowed governmental authorities on the Jewish National Fund (JNF or Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael) to purchase land for exclusively Jewish use. The state granted financial advantages, including tax relief to facilitate such purchases.

  1. In 1960, the state passed a law which stipulates that the ownership of “Israel lands”—namely the 93% of land under the control of the state, the Jewish National Fund, and the Development Authority—cannot be transferred in any manner.
Then the article goes on a full whataboutism route of "but why you are boycotting Israel and not the other Arab nations which feature much worse laws against minorities or women? - AHA! GOTCHA! You just hate Israel and Jews!"

Absolute tripe that I couldn't even finish reading. I hope your other sources are better.

Beim Gespräch in der Kneipe sitzt eine weitere BDS-Aktivistin am Nebentisch. Sie heißt Anja und will nicht interviewt werden, was schade ist, denn Anja vertritt eine interessante Theorie. Sie glaubt, die europäischen Juden, die wegen Verfolgung in ihrer Heimat während des 20. Jahrhunderts in den Nahen Osten übersiedelten, seien gar keine echten Juden gewesen. Sie hätten sich nur so genannt, um mit dieser Tarnung in fremdes Land einzufallen.
I mean look at this shit. So they couldn't interview her, but somehow got her whole viewpoint and wrote it down? Do you think they've been fair in their writing here?

Mit der Wahrheit nimmt es die Gruppe manchmal nicht so genau. Als sie im August zum Boykott des Festivals „Pop-Kultur“ aufrief, behauptete sie, Israel sei Mitorganisator. Das stimmte nicht, tatsächlich hatte die israelische Botschaft lediglich eine Künstlerin mit 500 Euro Reisekostenzuschuss unterstützt. Doch die Aktion zeigte Wirkung. Mehrere arabische Bands sagten ab. Der Manager einer Gruppe aus Ägypten erklärte, seine Musiker fürchteten den finanziellen Ruin. Ihren Lebensunterhalt verdienten sie zu 95 Prozent mit Auftritten in Kairo. Kämen sie dem Boykottaufruf nicht nach, wäre ihre Karriere vorbei.
And this is the icing on the cake. So the BDS group apparently "lies" that Israel is co-organizing an event, because the Israeli embassy financially supported someone who is going to the event? Yes, organizing is not the right word, but they are still actively supporting it with governmental funds. For people who want to boycott Israel, that does not make any difference.
 
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uzipukki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,799
Then the article goes on a full whataboutism route of "but why you are boycotting Israel and not the other Arab nations which feature much worse laws against minorities or women? - AHA! GOTCHA! You just hate Israel and Jews!"

Absolute tripe that I couldn't even finish reading. I hope your other sources are better.
I don't read German and had to resort to using Google Translate, but at least the other articles written by the author who did the TAZ article seem to be basically whataboutism. Never touching on the actions of the IDF and Israeli state, just going on and on about how other places are way worse than Israel and that means you just hate Jews.
 

Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,242
Remember when international pressure and boycotts (including by high-profile musicians) helped bring about the end of the apartheid regime in South Africa?

Seems pretty fucking quaint now.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,426
Fair enough. Nothing I've seen about BDS seems against the Jewish people, just Israel but some folks wanna play it safe and link Israel to Judaism and criticism of that state is tantamount to criticism of jewish identity and life.
Criticism of Israel is not criticism of Jewish identity or life.
Pretty much. Even if not every supporter of BDS is a anti semit the intention is clear.

Especially in germany those "don't buy" stickers on israeli products are not ok considering the famous "don't buy" campaign by nazis.
The intention of BDS is pretty clear, you're right: it's for the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their home in Israel. The reason the Israeli government is against that is because it would mean the end of Israel as a majority Jewish ethnostate.

Believing that refugees should be allowed to return is not anti-semitic.
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,522
What the fuck man. Thats totally uncalled for and
Europe drowning thousands of refugees in the Mediterranean every year is uncalled for.

Europe providing arms and military support to warlords and tyrannical regimes in Africa and the Middle East is uncalled for.

Europe having destroyed the world's climate, causing untold suffering across Africa and Asia, is uncalled for.

Europe hosting its biggest entertainment event in Israel, with a logo showing all of Palestine as Israeli territory, with performers using occupied Palestinian land as props, and having EU officials thank and boast of an unbreakable bond with Israel, while - minutes away - snipers shoot Palestinians who dare to protest their prison complex is uncalled for.

Europe whitewashing (and even celebrating) its millennia of enslavement, mass murder, and exploitation of African, Asian, and American people -- a pillaging that formed the foundation of modern Europe -- is uncalled for.

totally irrelevant to this topic
Attempting to censor criticism of European abuse of brown people in a thread about Europe censoring criticism of Israeli abuse of brown people. Okay.
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
1,774
Europe drowning thousands of refugees in the Mediterranean every year is uncalled for.

Europe providing arms and military support to warlords and tyrannical regimes in Africa and the Middle East is uncalled for.

Europe having destroyed the world's climate, causing untold suffering across Africa and Asia, is uncalled for.

Europe hosting its biggest entertainment event in Israel, with a logo showing all of Palestine as Israeli territory, with performers using occupied Palestinian land as props, and having EU officials thank and boast of an unbreakable bond with Israel, while - minutes away - snipers shoot Palestinians who dare to protest their prison complex is uncalled for.

Europe whitewashing (and even celebrating) its millennia of enslavement, mass murder, and exploitation of African, Asian, and American people -- a pillaging that formed the foundation of modern Europe -- is uncalled for.


Attempting to censor criticism of European abuse of brown people in a thread about Europe censoring criticism of Israeli abuse of brown people. Okay.
Europe is not a thing, we are all sovereign nations, something you US folks cant get through your thick skull. Its generalizing BS about an entire continent, like me saying Africa is a warzone. It makes no sense and is fucking stupid. This is als NOT a thread about any of that.

Open a fucking thread about any of these topics with specifics so we can talk about it, dont be a fucking cunt.
 

Ginta

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,038
It's ironic that the Palestinians ended up suffering for the actions of the German state after WW II. That's white colonialism for you. I wonder if the Germans ever consider the plight of the Palestinians in all this?
I would say the critique of the israeli goverment andais support of plagued Palestinians is pretty, just not openly vocal. I hate how fast that is used to paint people as anti-Semitist or right wing. Most politicians don't dare open their mouths, which is shameful.
 

GreatFenris

Member
Apr 6, 2019
21
Europe drowning thousands of refugees in the Mediterranean every year is uncalled for.

Europe providing arms and military support to warlords and tyrannical regimes in Africa and the Middle East is uncalled for.

Europe having destroyed the world's climate, causing untold suffering across Africa and Asia, is uncalled for.

Europe hosting its biggest entertainment event in Israel, with a logo showing all of Palestine as Israeli territory, with performers using occupied Palestinian land as props, and having EU officials thank and boast of an unbreakable bond with Israel, while - minutes away - snipers shoot Palestinians who dare to protest their prison complex is uncalled for.

Europe whitewashing (and even celebrating) its millennia of enslavement, mass murder, and exploitation of African, Asian, and American people -- a pillaging that formed the foundation of modern Europe -- is uncalled for.


Attempting to censor criticism of European abuse of brown people in a thread about Europe censoring criticism of Israeli abuse of brown people. Okay.
When you think the ignorant couldn't get even more ignorant. Europe is a multitude of countries with many different types of government and policies. What bothers me is that had a person said "Asia is this way" or "Africa" or "America" it'd been called out as bull. But some hatefilled poster on Era calling an entire continent evil? f****** fine! Just don't be rude to another poster!
How has Europe destroyed the climate single-handedly?
Do you realize several nations of Europe support or acknowledge a Palestinian state?
Yes, I remember how the Scandinavians enslaved Americans, I recall how the Polish held Asians under their yoke and when the Finnish held a large African colony!
Pro-gothdang-tip; European nations have a ton of luggage, but most of them are working on acknowledging or rectifying that. Just made a bit harder when nazis supported by US and Russia try to turn back our democracy to zero so that we'll loose the small sense of unity we've built up during decades.
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,522
When you think the ignorant couldn't get even more ignorant. Europe is a multitude of countries with many different types of government and policies. What bothers me is that had a person said "Asia is this way" or "Africa" or "America" it'd been called out as bull. But some hatefilled poster on Era calling an entire continent evil? f****** fine! Just don't be rude to another poster!
Arguing that Europe (which is less than half the size of the United States; significantly less populated, less physically diverse, and less culturally diverse than China or India; and part of the same tectonic plate as -- and not separated in any meaningful geographic way from -- Asia) is an "entire continent" itself demonstrates a Euro-supremacist worldview. I also never called Europe or Europeans evil. But which European nation isn't okay with drowning refugees by the thousands? Certainly there are some heroic individuals, like:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/german-boat-captain-pia-klemp-possibly-faces-20-years-in-prison-in-italy-for-saving-migrants-from-drowning.122728/

How has Europe destroyed the climate single-handedly?
I never said single-handedly, but the EU has historically been the #1 or #2 emitter of greenhouse gases.

Do you realize several nations of Europe support or acknowledge a Palestinian state?
At most they provide nominal acknowledgement of the plight of the Palestinians while actively supporting Israeli conquest monetarily and/or militarily. Which of them boycotted the Israeli Eurovision? Which of them is supporting BDS?

Yes, I remember how the Scandinavians enslaved Americans, I recall how the Polish held Asians under their yoke and when the Finnish held a large African colony!
Scandinavia and Finland were part of the Swedish empire, which was a major player in the African slave trade (and also had American colonies).If you don't remember this, you might want to brush up on your history. Poland, lacking access to the Atlantic and Mediterranean (as well as not being an independent nation during much of the colonial era), never had the historical opportunity to enslave Asians, but its recent behavior in invading/destabilizing Middle Eastern nations and the ensuing refugee crisis is hardly beyond reproach.

Pro-gothdang-tip; European nations have a ton of luggage, but most of them are working on acknowledging or rectifying that. Just made a bit harder when nazis supported by US and Russia try to turn back our democracy to zero so that we'll loose the small sense of unity we've built up during decades.
Russia and the US are bad actors, too, no doubt.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,866
The power Israel wields over other countries is kind of amazing to watch. I cant think of any other country (even the USA) getting away with this shit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
636
Criticism of Israel is not criticism of Jewish identity or life.
I agree but I dont bother telling people that because theyll ignore it. Israel has had a history of mistreating refugees and Jewish people from Africa who can trace their lineage. This is to say nothing about the settlements and literally forcing people out of their homes. I'm not trying to get banned for "excusing anti semitism" or however negative way my post can be interpreted, but generally speaking Israel has problems and pointing that out shouldn't lead to people calling you an anti semite. It's possible to want Israel to exist and not be an exclusionary, expansive ethnostate.
 

photonblack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
218
Europe drowning thousands of refugees in the Mediterranean every year is uncalled for.

Europe providing arms and military support to warlords and tyrannical regimes in Africa and the Middle East is uncalled for.

Europe having destroyed the world's climate, causing untold suffering across Africa and Asia, is uncalled for.

Europe hosting its biggest entertainment event in Israel, with a logo showing all of Palestine as Israeli territory, with performers using occupied Palestinian land as props, and having EU officials thank and boast of an unbreakable bond with Israel, while - minutes away - snipers shoot Palestinians who dare to protest their prison complex is uncalled for.

Europe whitewashing (and even celebrating) its millennia of enslavement, mass murder, and exploitation of African, Asian, and American people -- a pillaging that formed the foundation of modern Europe -- is uncalled for.


Attempting to censor criticism of European abuse of brown people in a thread about Europe censoring criticism of Israeli abuse of brown people. Okay.
Yes! Goddamn best thing i’ve seen here.
 

GreatFenris

Member
Apr 6, 2019
21
Arguing that Europe (which is less than half the size of the United States; significantly less populated, less physically diverse, and less culturally diverse than China or India; and part of the same tectonic plate as -- and not separated in any meaningful geographic way from -- Asia) is an "entire continent" itself demonstrates a Euro-supremacist worldview. I also never called Europe or Europeans evil. But which European nation isn't okay with drowning refugees by the thousands? Certainly there are some heroic individuals, like:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/german-boat-captain-pia-klemp-possibly-faces-20-years-in-prison-in-italy-for-saving-migrants-from-drowning.122728/



I never said single-handedly, but the EU has historically been the #1 or #2 emitter of greenhouse gases.



At most they provide nominal acknowledgement of the plight of the Palestinians while actively supporting Israeli conquest monetarily and/or militarily. Which of them boycotted the Israeli Eurovision? Which of them is supporting BDS?



Scandinavia and Finland were part of the Swedish empire, which was a major player in the African slave trade (and also had American colonies).If you don't remember this, you might want to brush up on your history. Poland, lacking access to the Atlantic and Mediterranean (as well as not being an independent nation during much of the colonial era), never had the historical opportunity to enslave Asians, but its recent behavior in invading/destabilizing Middle Eastern nations and the ensuing refugee crisis is hardly beyond reproach.



Russia and the US are bad actors, too, no doubt.
Yeah, I ain't gonna waste time or fury at someone who is either trolling or dishonest AF. Europe has issues, a lot of them. And how the separate countries deal with stuff like racism for example varies from depressing to infuriating, but you're just looking to hate on a couple of hundred million people.
Though as a side note, yeah Europe should not have held Eurovision in Israel, that was shameful. And we should use the EU to push for peace there.
 

RustyNails

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,163
First time hearing about BDS group so i dont know what they do but ok, if is to piss off people like you i say yes, they are
The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement (also known as BDS) is a Palestinian-led[1][2][3] campaign promoting various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets what the campaign describes as Israel's obligations under international law,[4] defined as withdrawal from the occupied territories, removal of the separation barrier in the West Bank, full equality for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel, and "respecting, protecting, and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties".[4] The campaign is organized and coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee.[5]
Why would anyone be against this? This is exactly what civil disobedience looks like. Gandhi would approve.
 

Lastbroadcast

Member
Jul 6, 2018
169
Sydney, Australia
Germany is run by a bunch of cowards.
Germany is run by people who actually remember what happened the last time they tried Jewish boycotts.

I really hate the actions of the right wing Israeli government, but I have never been comfortable with BDS as a form of protest. I grew up in a part of Sydney with a high Jewish population, and I don't think it's my business to ask them for their views on political Zionism before I purchase things from them.
 

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,281
why isn't Kweli's statement in the OP?

Kweli posted a public response to the festival organiser's demand.

"By lying and saying that BDS is an anti-Semitic movement, the German government is engaging in fascism and doing a disservice to the German people," he wrote on Facebook.

"Boycotting, Divesting and Sanctioning are peaceful solutions to the crisis that destroys Palestinians homes and lives. It is the opposite of terrorism," he added.

"The ball is in your court. I would like to perform in Germany but I don't need to. I'd rather be a decent human being and stand up for what's right then censor myself and lie about BDS for a check."
 

Azuran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
930
Fuck Israel. Amazing how they have the western world twirling around their fingers just because people are scared of being called anti-Semitic.

And they're gonna get away with their genocide because no one gives a fuck about Palestinians. Disgraceful. Anyone who refuses to speak out about that terrorist state is a coward with no integrity. Such a shame all politicians are like that.
 

Jeb

Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
873
Good.
Anti semitic organisations are on the rise and we should do everything to stop that.
So are crimes against humanity, but that doesn’t seem to bother you.
Two wrong dont make one right
First time hearing about BDS group so i dont know what they do but ok, if is to piss off people like you i say yes, they are
🤔

So where was that “wrong antisemetic organization“
My crystal ball is a little wonky so I might need your help.
 
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anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
333
That's honestly just a convenient excuse at this point.
What do you mean? Did not the West give Jews their own homeland because of the holocaust? And did they not do it by taking away colonized land from the Palestinians without asking the Palestinians and the people living there if that was okay by them? If there was any kind of actual justice, the Jewish people should have been given their own country/state in Germany/Europe. But no, the white colonialists kicked the brown people out of their homes to make way for a new Jewish state. Palestinians paid for the crimes committed by the Germans and now we have the Germans continuing to support their ethnic cleansing by the Israeli government.
 

Anomander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
231
Germany is run by people who actually remember what happened the last time they tried Jewish boycotts.

I really hate the actions of the right wing Israeli government, but I have never been comfortable with BDS as a form of protest. I grew up in a part of Sydney with a high Jewish population, and I don't think it's my business to ask them for their views on political Zionism before I purchase things from them.
Are you capable of distinguishing Israel and Jewish people?