US hip hop star Talib Kweli has been disinvited from a German music festival after refusing to denounce the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS)

Jeb

Avenger
Mar 14, 2018
873
Germany is run by people who actually remember what happened the last time they tried Jewish boycotts.

I really hate the actions of the right wing Israeli government, but I have never been comfortable with BDS as a form of protest. I grew up in a part of Sydney with a high Jewish population, and I don't think it's my business to ask them for their views on political Zionism before I purchase things from them.
It sounds like the whole trick of tying an apartheid regime to an entire religion and the past atrocities they’ve suffered, is working.

The feelings of past wounds should not be a shield for future oppression and shouldn’t be manipulated to suppress resistance to war criminals.

The problem is that it works.
 

Masseyme

Member
May 23, 2019
102
What do you mean? Did not the West give Jews their own homeland because of the holocaust? And did they not do it by taking away colonized land from the Palestinians without asking the Palestinians and the people living there if that was okay by them? If there was any kind of actual justice, the Jewish people should have been given their own country/state in Germany/Europe. But no, the white colonialists kicked the brown people out of their homes to make way for a new Jewish state. Palestinians paid for the crimes committed by the Germans and now we have the Germans continuing to support their ethnic cleansing by the Israeli government.

No you're right but I'm saying that the Holocaust is used today as a convenient excuse to justify Israel's apartheid and to dismiss any criticism of the state of Israel.
 

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,070
Baden-Württemberg
It's ironic that the Palestinians ended up suffering for the actions of the German state after WW II. That's white colonialism for you. I wonder if the Germans ever consider the plight of the Palestinians in all this?
I don't think you want to go down that rabbit hole relative to ramifications today... because there's Israelis that have the rhetoric that the Palestinians deserve what they get because of their past support for the Nazis. Before and during WW2 Palestinians overwhelmingly supported the Nazis, Mandatory Palestine and Mufti were in favour of Nazi anti-Jew policies (including the Final Solution), that didn't disappear after 1945, it continued in the 1940s and 1950s of Nazi worship.
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
333
Before and during WW2 Palestinians overwhelmingly supported the Nazis, Mandatory Palestine and Mufti were in favour of Nazi anti-Jew policies.
Quite a few folks and governments around the world supported Nazi anti-Jew policies. That does not refute the fact that it was Hitler and Nazi Germany who were responsible for the holocaust. So let's not go down this route of trying to blame the Palestinians okay? Netanyahu tried that nonsense and Merkel shut him down straight away saying that it was the Nazis and the Nazis only who were solely responsible for what happened.

The Palestinians did not deserve to have their homes and lands taken away by colonial Britain and the West to make up for what Nazi Germany did. The Palestinians are still suffering from that decision while Europe merrily enjoys with no consequences while not even allowing peaceful protests like BDS.
 

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,070
Baden-Württemberg
Quite a few folks and governments around the world supported Nazi anti-Jew policies. That does not refute the fact that it was Hitler and Nazi Germany who were responsible for the holocaust. So let's not go down this route of trying to blame the Palestinians okay? Netanyahu tried that nonsense and Merkel shut him down straight away saying that it the Nazis and the Nazis only who were solely responsible for what happened.

The Palestinians did not deserve to have their homes and lands taken away by colonial Britain and the West to make up for what Nazi Germany did. The Palestinians are still suffering from that decisions while Europe merrily enjoys with no consequences.
I am not blaming them, I never said I agree with it, I don't. Things simply don't live in a vacuum. I'm saying you saying "it's ironic" isn't ironic. The state of Israel was created because of the holocaust of course, but Palestine getting screwed over by it in 1948 isn't ironic when Axis countries and countries with positive and close relations with the Axis were not seen in a positive light.

The Mufti was pro the Final Solution, doing the Hitlergruß, and Palestinians of the time overwhelmingly supporting it - that support had an obvious role to play in considerations of the creation of the state of Israel, because Jews in the region were persecuted... the state of Israel was not just made as a home for Jews from Europe, but protection from the antisemitism in the region itself... by people like the Mufti, so I don't see how it is ironic, not when antisemitism was rife around the world at time, the holocaust triggered the creation, but its need was created by the holocaust, that was a long time in the making, even relative to the Middle-east itself. Mandatory Palestine being pro Nazi had people give less of a fuck what they thought when it came to creating a home for the persecuted. That's why it's not ironic.
 
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Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,200
I am not blaming them, I never said I agree with it, I don't. Things simply don't live in a vacuum. I'm saying you saying "it's ironic" isn't ironic. The state of Israel was created because of the holocaust of course, but Palestine getting screwed over by it in 1948 isn't ironic when Axis countries and countries with positive and close relations with the Axis were not seen in a positive light.

The Mufti was pro the Final Solution, doing the Hitlergruß, and Palestinians of the time overwhelmingly supporting it - that support had an obvious role to play in considerations of the creation of the state of Israel, because Jews in the region were persecuted... the state of Israel was not just made as a home for Jews from Europe, but protection from the antisemitism in the region itself... by people like the Mufti, so I don't see how it is ironic.
Sorry but I don't buy this. It wasn't because they wanted to protect the Jews from anti semitism, it was more so to gain an ally in the region by satisfying the Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun.

It was nowhere near simple as you are making it out to be and just a quick glance over the Mufti's history should tell you that he wasn't installed by the people, instead the British were the ones to give him support before they became enemies. Plenty of Arabic leaders are still mentioned, the mufti however is almost forgotten, and for a good reason. He had nowhere near influence as the Zionists claim him to be.

Just reducing it to "Palestinians overwhelming support of the Nazis" is forgetting the Zionist terrorists that were in Palestine at the time. The mufti cashed in on that to spread his hateful views but even then the support was very diverse and lots of people also supported the allies.
 

incognito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
883
Nobody should be forced into financially supporting the murder of Palestinians. We all come from the same god, and it is a sin to destroy god's divine creations.

Good on Talib Kweli
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
1,773
Arguing that Europe (which is less than half the size of the United States; significantly less populated, less physically diverse, and less culturally diverse than China or India; and part of the same tectonic plate as -- and not separated in any meaningful geographic way from -- Asia) is an "entire continent" itself demonstrates a Euro-supremacist worldview. I also never called Europe or Europeans evil. But which European nation isn't okay with drowning refugees by the thousands? Certainly there are some heroic individuals, like:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/german-boat-captain-pia-klemp-possibly-faces-20-years-in-prison-in-italy-for-saving-migrants-from-drowning.122728/



I never said single-handedly, but the EU has historically been the #1 or #2 emitter of greenhouse gases.



At most they provide nominal acknowledgement of the plight of the Palestinians while actively supporting Israeli conquest monetarily and/or militarily. Which of them boycotted the Israeli Eurovision? Which of them is supporting BDS?



Scandinavia and Finland were part of the Swedish empire, which was a major player in the African slave trade (and also had American colonies).If you don't remember this, you might want to brush up on your history. Poland, lacking access to the Atlantic and Mediterranean (as well as not being an independent nation during much of the colonial era), never had the historical opportunity to enslave Asians, but its recent behavior in invading/destabilizing Middle Eastern nations and the ensuing refugee crisis is hardly beyond reproach.



Russia and the US are bad actors, too, no doubt.
You can fuck right off. You come into unrelated topics and just spuit your irrelevant Vile into it. Every continent had fucking problems, maybe we shouldnt through them all onto a pile and say this is a problem of that continent “as a whole”.
“Less culturally diverse than China” ? Are you fucking high? Or Some CDPR plant?

Let me Just go and bring up the plight of the native Americans, Internment camps, ignoring the international court in The Hague, condoning torture, being the source of the biggest refugee crisis in the world today, religious bigotry, Jim Crow, being the biggest polluter TODAY, in every single topic related to the US, Mexico, and Canada.

Youve been doing this in other topics too today, maybe get Some sleep and start a nuanced discussion tomorrow.
 
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