• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

US PoliERA 2018 |OT10| McConnell is "mule piss"

Status
Not open for further replies.
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Wonderment said:
No I didn't, I said wait for her to say something - you said screwed up, go back and read what I wrote. But Warren has been speaking about this for years. So has Trump, and done far worse even, but he gets a hundred excuses - he's got demetia, he's an ass, what else is new, etc. Warren, a sitting senator in a party with little legislative power currently, gets none.

Three months ago Trump offered her money to have her take a DNA test. The potential outcomes and implications of conducting such a test could have been discussed at any time, and yeah even by Warren herself. So yes, people "quite literally" waited until she said something today.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes if there's anything the commentators in PoliERA are notorious for it's giving Trump a free pass
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,315
Wonderment said:
No I didn't, I said wait for her to say something - you said screwed up, go back and read what I wrote. But Warren has been speaking about this for years. So has Trump, and done far worse even, but he gets a hundred excuses - he's got demetia, he's an ass, what else is new, etc. Warren, a sitting senator in a party with little legislative power currently, gets none.

Three months ago Trump offered her money to have her take a DNA test. The potential outcomes and implications of conducting such a test could have been discussed at any time, and yeah even by Warren herself. So yes, people "quite literally" waited until she said something today.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What does excuses people make for Trump have to do with the Cherokee Nation?

As for Cherokee Nation and speaking out against Trump, they do a lot on all sorts of issues

How did you turn my specific issues with your comments about the Cherokee Nation into a general rant about "people" and Trump.

https://www.alternet.org/video/cher...g-elizabeth-warren-pocahontas-racist-put-down
https://www.vox.com/2016/5/16/11684776/elizabeth-warren-pocahontas
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/cherokee-nation-trump-andrew-jackson_us_58c9bbd1e4b0ec9d29d88e02
http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/...cle_469d18bb-b646-5f94-9960-e076b122501e.html
 
sangreal

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
FatPuppy said:
Last week's Always Sunny episode had a scene where Dennis was facing the camera and said something like "I'm going to need you to stop using the Constitution the way you're using it."

I'm going to need to get that as a subtitled image, as I think I'll be getting some use out of it in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
iDDsHC7.gif
 
Last edited:
Vimes

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,276
If trump supporters are unhappy with not being able to fully participate in public life, perhaps they could pick up some pointers from all the undocumented people who haven't been able to do so for most of (if not their whole) lives.
 

Deleted member 13101

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Guy from the Blackfoot nation on Chris Hayes' show just eloquently laid out what a DNA test means and doesn't mean, as far as tribal affinity goes.

When another guest pushed back that Warren never claimed to belong to a tribe, the answer from the Blackfoot member was "Well that was the terms of the wager." And that's Warren's fault? Come on now, we all know whose idea the wager was. Why in the world are people allowing Trump to dictate the terms of discourse on this subject?
 
Albert

Albert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
866
God damn it, the AZCentral livestream of the McSally-Sinema debate went offline for a bit and I missed opening statements.

McSally already dropping anti-Semitic dog whistles.
 
Y2Kev

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,834
Elizabeth Forma to put out campaign video on how she is not, in fact, a crab person to cut off criticism from parker and stone.
 
patientzero

patientzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
Wonderment said:
I'm sorry the Cherokee nation hasn't been, and isn't getting attention they perhaps deserve more of. But this isn't leftist criticism so much as it is hanging on to an issue made public. Were they so interested in reaching out, they would have told Trump to can it and tell everyone what it means to have respect for others and what it means to know where you come from. Instead they wait for the woman to say something, then they come out and criticize THAT. Good job.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

From over a year ago -

https://www.voanews.com/a/native-am...e-over-trump-pocahontas-comments/4140139.html

Navajo Nation President Russell Begaye described the incident as part of an "ongoing feud" between Trump and Elizabeth Warren, over her claims to have Native American heritage during her Senate campaign.

"In this day and age, all tribal nations still battle insensitive references to our people. The prejudice that Native American people face is an unfortunate historical legacy," Begaye said. "As Native Americans, we are proud people who have taken care of this land long before there was the United States of America and we will continue to fight for this Nation."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Navajo Nation Council delegate Amber Kanazbah Crotty cited the event as the "latest example of systemic, deep-seated ignorance" about Native Americans.

"The Navajo Code Talkers are not pawns to advance a personal grudge or promote false narratives," Crotty said in a statement released Monday. "Such pandering dishonors the sacrifice of our national heroes."

Dine Code Talkers secretary Debra Klecan posted on Facebook that the White House ceremony was the first time she had ever heard disparaging comments made against the Code Talkers.

"I've seen men and women of all ages break down in tears in honor and in awe of meeting them in person and they subsequently share their personal or family stories about how the Code Talkers affected their lives. It is too bad the president of the United States cannot do the same."

In a personal Facebook message to Trump, Marty Thompson, whose great uncle Dennie Housteen was a Navajo Code Talker, demanded an official apology.

"There were three… Navajo Code Talkers standing and sitting with pride and dignity next to you. But, you Honor and Respect them with a…racist, derogatory comment about Pocahontas. Do you even know the true Pocahontas?" Thompson asked.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"As a Marine Vet myself, I am keenly aware of how great a sacrifice these Navajo Marines made to the war effort," said Ray Cook, former op/ed editor of Indian Country Today Media Network. "There is something basically wrong that a man would on one hand hand praise Native veterans and, on the other and in the same breath, denounce another person with a claimed Native background with a racial slur that is derogatory to Natives."

Native Americans observers were quick to note that Monday's ceremony took place beneath a portrait of Andrew Jackson, the seventh U.S. president and architect of the policy that forcibly drove thousands of Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek and Seminole tribe members from their homes to the West. Along the way, thousands died of cold, disease or hunger.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Could it be that indigenous peoples don't get much media? Could it be that you don't hear their voices even when they speak, until a day like today when they're words are deemed meaningful? Why do we constantly make this attribution error, that because we don't hear a particular voice we somehow assume that it is willingly silent?

I realize this is a whole clusterfuck of competing notions, prejudices, desires, fears, and more, but I think there's a way for us to all hold the dozen or more thoughts regarding Warren's actions, and their good and bad implications, simultaneously. Here's what I can come up with and I'll add this is numbered for the sake of readability. There is no hierarchy.

1. This is definitely a political move, either to strike at Trump, deflate a criticism in anticipation of a run, or both. It's not inherently good or bad, it just is as far as politics go.

2. Trump is a raging racist/ethnicist who exploited a really pointless but definitely despicable bit of bullshit. This is birtherism of another kind.

3. Warren receives tons of sexist criticism and that shouldn't be denied.

4. Warren receives a ton of undue criticism by progressives for not backing their ostensible savior and that shouldn't be denied.

5. Conservative shitbags will pounce on anything they perceive as vulnerable.

6. Warren is not just a capable politician, policy maker, lawyer, professor, and more but exemplary in many ways. She is thoughtful, bases her views on empirical evidence, and can present nuanced, academic reasoning for those views, which is to be commended in any era of politics, let alone this one.

7. For the same reasons in point 6, she likely plays much better among those of us who pay attention to wonkish policy making, but there are legitimate questions about how this plays to a larger electorate and her ability to conform to those idiotic standards.

8. She is entitled, as we all are, to her heritage and her family's conception of it. The video she released about her family speaks admirably to this and reflects many families from her region and across many areas of the United States and other countries whose indigenous peoples were persecuted, often came into contact in myriad ways with other cultures, were often forced to deny or hide that contact, and speak to larger issues with the treatments and histories of those indigenous peoples.

9. Warren's story fits into a larger narrative about the intersection of native and non-native peoples, and how the latter have exoticized the former for their own purposes, even if Warren herself isn't doing so.

10. We should listen to indigenous peoples about their views on situations which force them to confront those treatments and histories. There are a lot of awful things being said about the value of native peoples' voices today and it's not okay.

11. If this were a conservative politician doing the exact same thing, we would raise bloody hell with many thinkpieces about the issue and Samantha Bee, John Oliver, and others would make comedic hay of it.

12. In a week this will largely be forgotten.

Did I miss any?
 

Deleted member 13101

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Maddow's show focusing on Native Americans in North Dakota and their affect on the vote that could decide which party has the majority in the Senate. They don't have IDs with street addresses, and election shenanigans are suddenly requiring street addresses on IDs in order to validate provisional votes. She had focused a while back on Native Americans in Alaska with Murkowski and called that situation correctly before it generated the lone Republican No vote on Kavanaugh.

In ND they are trying to identify/create (yes they can do that) street addresses and staff tribal officials at every polling place. The guest noted they could request a street address from the 911 system, so this shouldn't be such a problem.
 
chainlinkspiral

chainlinkspiral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,571
patientzero said:
From over a year ago -

https://www.voanews.com/a/native-am...e-over-trump-pocahontas-comments/4140139.html







Could it be that indigenous peoples don't get much media? Could it be that you don't hear their voices even when they speak, until a day like today when they're words are deemed meaningful? Why do we constantly make this attribution error, that because we don't hear a particular voice we somehow assume that it is willingly silent?

I realize this is a whole clusterfuck of competing notions, prejudices, desires, fears, and more, but I think there's a way for us to all hold the dozen or more thoughts regarding Warren's actions, and their good and bad implications, simultaneously. Here's what I can come up with and I'll add this is numbered for the sake of readability. There is no hierarchy.

1. This is definitely a political move, either to strike at Trump, deflate a criticism in anticipation of a run, or both. It's not inherently good or bad, it just is as far as politics go.

2. Trump is a raging racist/ethnicist who exploited a really pointless but definitely despicable bit of bullshit. This is birtherism of another kind.

3. Warren receives tons of sexist criticism and that shouldn't be denied.

4. Warren receives a ton of undue criticism by progressives for not backing their ostensible savior and that shouldn't be denied.

5. Conservative shitbags will pounce on anything they perceive as vulnerable.

6. Warren is not just a capable politician, policy maker, lawyer, professor, and more but exemplary in many ways. She is thoughtful, bases her views on empirical evidence, and can present nuanced, academic reasoning for those views, which is to be commended in any era of politics, let alone this one.

7. For the same reasons in point 6, she likely plays much better among those of us who pay attention to wonkish policy making, but there are legitimate questions about how this plays to a larger electorate and her ability to conform to those idiotic standards.

8. She is entitled, as we all are, to her heritage and her family's conception of it. The video she released about her family speaks admirably to this and reflects many families from her region and across many areas of the United States and other countries whose indigenous peoples were persecuted, often came into contact in myriad ways with other cultures, were often forced to deny or hide that contact, and speak to larger issues with the treatments and histories of those indigenous peoples.

9. Warren's story fits into a larger narrative about the intersection of native and non-native peoples, and how the latter have exoticized the former for their own purposes, even if Warren herself isn't doing so.

10. We should listen to indigenous peoples about their views on situations which force them to confront those treatments and histories. There are a lot of awful things being said about the value of native peoples' voices today and it's not okay.

11. If this were a conservative politician doing the exact same thing, we would raise bloody hell with many thinkpieces about the issue and Samantha Bee, John Oliver, and others would make comedic hay of it.

12. In a week this will largely be forgotten.

Did I miss any?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty, pretty good.
 
patientzero

patientzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
Lonewulfeus said:
Seems accurate to me.

Especially the last point. No one will remember this tomorrow even.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To add to that, I'd offer the following on a cost-benefit analysis.

Worst-case scenario - This blows up a bit on Warren and stifles any higher aims but at the end of the day she is a popular Democratic Senator in fucking Massachusetts, which leads her to not pursuing the Presidency but instead having a lifelong seat as an influential policy maker on the vanguard of her party's future.

Best-case scenario - This not only takes a right-wing talking point off the table but actually instills some sympathy for Warren, thereby letting her pursue those higher aims.

So, like, what's the harm?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.