US PoliERA 2018 |OT13| Very Legal & Very Cool (and very redacted)

Dec 11, 2017
333
My thing with Beto is when i saw him at one of his events answering questions during his Q&A portions, he never seemed all that prepared. He kind of just rode on charisma. Obviously reality has taught us that you don't need to be a genius to run the country, but I've always liked that Democratic Presidential candidates mostly seemed like really well-read people. I don't know Beto's actual intelligence or anything, but I remember sitting there thinking that homeboy was kind of talking around a lot of questions he didn't feel prepared for. But maybe that was just pure campaign messaging discipline.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,829
I would have thought this sort of sustained protest would have happened earlier, specifically when his CoS was caught busting heads in the middle of a protest while wearing police gear. Macron, from what I've been able to tell, is a pretty dismal president. That's easy to forget because he does spend a considerable time dunking on Theresa May, which makes it easy to forget that he has his own considerable domestic problems.

We'd probably be talking more about how bad Macron is in general, but he's protected by a bunch of world leaders who are worse than him sucking the oxygen out of the room: Trump, May, Abe, Erdogan, Bolsonaro soon...
Macron is pretty good despite the shitty personnel politics. France legit needed overhauls rightwards in parts of their economy to unfuck unemployment which was very much not the norm in most other countries. Hes still more popular than any other leader there, you have to grade on a curve w approvals.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,070
Hillary Clinton was very honest and authentic. And people hated that.
The Clintons are notoriously guarded -- going back to the 90s. During 2016 campaign you saw this with the Goldman Sachs speech transcripts that she refused to release, that ended up being leaked. Their closedness is often seen as a response to the ridiculous conspiracies attacking them, but Hillary is certainly not known for being an open book.
 

Stinkles

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Oct 25, 2017
7,681
Macron is pretty good despite the shitty personnel politics. France legit needed overhauls rightwards in parts of their economy to unfuck unemployment which was very much not the norm in most other countries. Hes still more popular than any other leader there, you have to grade on a curve w approvals.

Also the yellow vest thing probably looks catastrophic to US folks, but to Europeans, French workers striking and causing a giant ruckus is also known as "Thursday" - this one looks better organized in some respects and more organic in others -- butI have ZERO doubt that outside agitators and right wing groups are taking advantage of the situation and making it worse. There's almost zero chance Russia isn't spending money to motivate extra participants.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,829
The Clintons are notoriously guarded -- going back to the 90s. During 2016 campaign you saw this with the Goldman Sachs speech transcripts that she refused to release, that ended up being leaked. Their closedness is often seen as a response to the ridiculous conspiracies attacking them, but Hillary is certainly not known for being an open book.
Im thinking of things like the Deplorables speech specifically where "is honest, doesnt go over well" was a thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,677
Hillary Clinton was very honest and authentic. And people hated that.

People don't want actual authenticity, they want the appearance of authenticity. That's the charisma part of "being good at being a politician" that Hilary and Warren lack. They're fundamentally policy nerds. Which is great! But... not really a skill set very relevant to doing well in elections.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim that they disliked Hillary because she was just too honest and authentic.

Edit: She shouldn't have backed down on the Deplorables comment. But she also wasn't really the best person to make that kind of comment.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,044
I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim that they disliked Hillary because she was just too honest and authentic.

Edit: She shouldn't have backed down on the Deplorables comment. But she also wasn't really the best person to make that kind of comment.
If you asked people why they hated Hilary, it usually amounted to " I just don't like her, she's bad, I feel it in my gut". They couldn't give a reason if they tried unless it was Benghazi or emails which, lol. Now if they were being honest with themselves, their reasons might be more interesting.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
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Oct 25, 2017
7,681
My thing with Beto is when i saw him at one of his events answering questions during his Q&A portions, he never seemed all that prepared. He kind of just rode on charisma. Obviously reality has taught us that you don't need to be a genius to run the country, but I've always liked that Democratic Presidential candidates mostly seemed like really well-read people. I don't know Beto's actual intelligence or anything, but I remember sitting there thinking that homeboy was kind of talking around a lot of questions he didn't feel prepared for. But maybe that was just pure campaign messaging discipline.

I'm not a politician obviously - but a lot of that is experience not of policy, but of specific questions. If I'm on a media tour and I hear a new question, I answer it to the best of my ability - but I may be sort of diagraming information as I speak and talking around tricky aspects simply because I haven't had to elucidate them, rather than from not knowing the answer. By the end of a tour, I'll have the answer to that question down pat, and will start repeating it more succinctly and with better focus. Beto has moved into the national spotlight and so he's answering completely new questions about shit like foreign policy that a TX local rep would never have had to . So he's probably going through something similar.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,554
Hillary Clinton was very honest and authentic. And people hated that.

People don't want actual authenticity, they want the appearance of authenticity. That's the charisma part of "being good at being a politician" that Hilary and Warren lack. They're fundamentally policy nerds. Which is great! But... not really a skill set very relevant to doing well in elections.
Basically, they just want bullshitters.

Unfortunately most people don't like that.
Yep.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,044
My thing with Beto is when i saw him at one of his events answering questions during his Q&A portions, he never seemed all that prepared. He kind of just rode on charisma. Obviously reality has taught us that you don't need to be a genius to run the country, but I've always liked that Democratic Presidential candidates mostly seemed like really well-read people. I don't know Beto's actual intelligence or anything, but I remember sitting there thinking that homeboy was kind of talking around a lot of questions he didn't feel prepared for. But maybe that was just pure campaign messaging discipline.
Maybe it's just me but I like that he was just trying to wing his responses. That's how you get honest and sincere responses. Not responses prepared and carefully examined by a team of people.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,394
Macron is pretty good despite the shitty personnel politics. France legit needed overhauls rightwards in parts of their economy to unfuck unemployment which was very much not the norm in most other countries. Hes still more popular than any other leader there, you have to grade on a curve w approvals.
I know that he made labor reforms that aren't popular on top of the (now-suspended) gas tax, but it's hard for me to suss out how necessary they were because I just don't have the knowledge of the French economy to do so. It seems like you have a much better grasp on that.

I don't think that he's particularly great on African immigration or race in general, and right now, I'm more sensitive than ever to that sort of thing, so this probably colors my view of his overall performance as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,829
Survivor 18 (and the follow ups 20 and 34) should be required political viewing for the "charismatic bullshitter" vs "nerd with brain" dynamic.
I know that he made labor reforms that aren't popular on top of the (now-suspended) gas tax, but it's hard for me to suss out how necessary they were because I just don't have the knowledge of the French economy to do so. It seems like you have a much better grasp on that.

I don't think that he's particularly great on African immigration or race in general, and right now, I'm more sensitive than ever to that sort of thing, so this probably colors my view of his overall performance as well.
Basically, it was so hard to fire someone that way-higher-than-normal unemployment was a result because businesses were taking on so much implied risk each time they'd bring someone on. France had the "security" part of "flexicurity" in place w/ social safety nets, but the labor laws were done in such a way where it was great if you could get a job.... but actually getting one was extraordinarily difficult.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,829
Translate this to the USSR for me. Stalin vs. Trotsky? Lenin vs. Martov?
The charismatic guy who won vs the guy who actually engineered everything (and probably got killed.)

And then after killing the brain behind it, the charismatic guy starts flailing and governing terribly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,519
Any analysis of Hillary that doesn't include 'if her husband did the same, the country would've loved it' is incomplete.

See: Who are you glad calls you an enemy? "Republicans!" That's a fuckin slam dunk answer and only sexist double standards prevented that from being analyzed on its merits. Fuck everyone I'm still mad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,824
Oct 25, 2017
4,070
Im thinking of things like the Deplorables speech specifically where "is honest, doesnt go over well" was a thing.
Well sure, people don't like the truth when it makes them look bad :P

In general, I think "authenticity" in politics is usually more about how they talk about and express themselves + how consistent they are in their views (and if they change their views, how they walk that evolution) --- bonus points in authenticity for consistency in uncommon views: "he says it like it is" vs talking like a politician. And by talking like a politician, I mean being politically correct, but not just "not saying bigoted things" -- in a broader sense that can also include merely sticking with political orthodoxies (having "realistic" policy proposals and sounding like everything you say has been focus tested).

(Beto also had this sort of authenticity in his senate race)
 
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Oct 27, 2017
5,944
Didn't expect much news today, but a filing under "No Collusion" ?


Trump and the NRA used the same consultants to spearhead TV ad blitzes during the '16 election, possibly in violation of federal law, MoJo reports. "This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination," said an ex-FEC general counsel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,335
Sherrod Brown is like a piece of moldy bread to me as far as electability goes.
I think there's obviously other arguments against Brown's candidacy, but I also am fairly confident he'd win in a general election versus Trump. Electability doesn't seem to be the argument against Sherrod.
 
Feb 28, 2018
548
I think there's obviously other arguments against Brown's candidacy, but I also am fairly confident he'd win in a general election versus Trump. Electability doesn't seem to be the argument against Sherrod.
I was talking about the primary - I'm fairly confident any candidate who can win the primary can win against Trump.

Sherrod is uninspiring and even his voice is kinda grating.
 
Oct 25, 2017
682
Chicagoland
Didn't expect much news today, but a filing under "No Collusion" ?


Trump and the NRA used the same consultants to spearhead TV ad blitzes during the '16 election, possibly in violation of federal law, MoJo reports. "This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination," said an ex-FEC general counsel.
NO COLLUSION. ONLY COORDINATION.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
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Oct 25, 2017
7,681
Getting them below 200 will be so nice.
If nothing else the last two years has proven that the GOP is a party that believes in power and rejects democracy. That it's a weak but effective party of cheating and fingers on the scale and a party of craven followers with no moral leadership. The evangelical movement also sacrificed even the appearance of morality and is no longer a base but rather an arm of the GOP. To abortions as the NRA is to gun control.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,677
The charismatic guy who won vs the guy who actually engineered everything (and probably got killed.)

And then after killing the brain behind it, the charismatic guy starts flailing and governing terribly.
Yeah this doesn't really work with Soviet history since usually the charismatic guy is also the more intelligent guy and gets killed or purged fist.