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Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,700
The IA01 poll is halfway done and uh, I think we can be pretty sure that Rod Blum will not be a Congressman next term. lol.
 

vanmardigan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
This relies on Dowd knowing the contours of Mueller's case, his witnesses' stories and the physical evidence.

How does he know these things?

He doesn't and he says as much in the book He's frustrated because he felt like they gave Mueller what they felt was everything he asked for short of the interview with trump but Mueller didn't give an inch. And he speculates that it could mean Mueller has an ace in the hole that he's not aware of, so he goes into all of that.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,261
It's not a dumb post. It's infuriating is what it is. Guy has the potential to be stopped from destroying countless women's lives. But no, she doesnt want it. She's already gonna get it now that her name is out there.

Yeah well, some people step up and some people don't. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good (wo)men to do nothing, and all that. Hopefully she'll reconsider. But if she doesn't celebrations all around for the old white men.

These are shit takes
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
He doesn't and he says as much in the book He's frustrated because he felt like they gave Mueller what they felt was everything he asked for short of the interview with trump but Mueller didn't give an inch. And he speculates that it could mean Mueller has an ace in the hole that he's not aware of, so he goes into all of that.

So we have an interested narrator--whose reputation is at stake--claiming he doesn't know enough to make a determination either way, but you've gleaned that the investigation is a dud based on just that?

C'mon. Unpack this some more for us
 
I think Josh has a point here -- her lawyer never said that she won't appear, but she's saying the terms in which she wishes to appear under. That doesn't mean it's not worth trying, but it also doesn't mean that she won't show up. Again, I would take a wait and see approach here.



That and this is still developing so shit can change and more can come out.
 

vanmardigan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
So we have an interested narrator--whose reputation is at stake--claiming he doesn't know enough to make a determination either way, but you've gleaned that the investigation is a dud based on just that?

C'mon. Unpack this some more for us

He makes a determination, he thinks trump didn't collude. He didn't find anything to suggest that and just turned everything over to Mueller expecting a quick resolution That was a strategic mistake, of course, but with the access that he had to documents and transcripts, including the Flynn and comey stuff I would have expected a different legal strategy if he thought different about his client's culpability.
 
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Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,700
So in this NJ07 poll, I think there's going to be a point where Malinowski takes over. Look at these crosstabs for non-white voters:

28 responses, 19% of the electorate, 42% Malinowski, 49% Lance

Tom is down by 5 with white voters, but down by 7 with non-white voters. And the Citizen Voting Age Population of NJ07?

Non-Hispanic White: 79.2
Black: 4.7
Latino: 8.1
Asian: 7.2
Other: 0.8

That is not a demographic cocktail that equal Lance getting 48% of non-white voters. Right now, that's being upweighted CONSIDERABLY because non-white voters are 18% of the NJ07 electorate. That will probably change when they do callbacks to those voters and I suspect that it'll end up being 55/38/7 or something for non white voters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,877
He makes a determination, he thinks trump didn't collude. He didn't find anything to suggest that and just turned everything over to Mueller expecting a quick resolution That was a strategic mistake, of course, but with the access that he had to documents and transcripts, including the Flynn and comey stuff I would have expected a different legal strategy if he thought different any his client's culpability.

He could just be incompetent, which is the explanation most likely to fit Occam's Razor if you just consider how incompetent Trump's administration is.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,700
Yup. The dynamics are more complicated than some people made it out to be. I'm truly not sure how this shakes out.

 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
If you're interested in a not so great interview, watch Clinton on Maddow right now.

This is the worst of Maddow - someone has a new book, or in this case a new edition of the book, and they sit for an interview. Not only did Clinton right away downplay the words she wrote in the book, Maddow keeps leading her with answering a question before asking it. The answers are measured, but with no sense of urgency or criticality. When asking about the future of the country and the threat of authoritarianism, you would think there would be more there.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
Yeah well, some people step up and some people don't. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good (wo)men to do nothing, and all that. Hopefully she'll reconsider. But if she doesn't celebrations all around for the old white men.

Banned now, but to add something (hopefully) intelligent to what are otherwise stupid posts...

What's happening with Ford/Kavanaugh is what happens with a lot of sexual assaults/rapes, which is the victim is caught between trying to move on with their lives, and knowing that moving forward with a testimony or investigation will help others. When viewed in terms of Rape Culture, Ford's wavering on testifying (with or without the FBI investigating) is entirely understandable - it's hard to convince police to investigate, it's hard to convince a DA to prosecute, it's hard to convince a jury to convict. In this situation, with an obviously biased line-up of Old White Guys who have already made it clear they'll willingly believe whatever Kavanaugh tells them, as well as the obvious set-up of Ford testifying literally next to the person she's accusing, it's even worse.

Would it suck if, because she didn't testify, Kavanaugh was confirmed? Yes. But let no-one think this is an easy decision to make.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
He makes a determination, he thinks trump didn't collude. He didn't find anything to suggest that and just turned everything over to Mueller expecting a quick resolution That was a strategic mistake, of course, but with the access that he had to documents and transcripts, including the Flynn and comey stuff I would have expected a different legal strategy if he thought different any his client's culpability.

Couldn't Dowd just as easily believe Trump is guilty, but has to avoid the appearance of back-stabbing so that he can claim to still be a Conservative in good standing for work?
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,700
It's been hours and Siena can't find 3 people in Houston to talk to.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,391
People actually think Trump told Dowd everything?

I'd wager the only people who truly appreciate the full extent of Trump's legal exposure are his kids, and anyone on the other end of his individual handshake deals. His legal representation never lasts because he can't tell the real truth to anyone 'clean'.
 

Post Reply

Member
Aug 1, 2018
4,502
Sometimes I feel like I lose all context by adding people to my ignore list. I had to open this thread in another browser to figure out what was going on.
 

vanmardigan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
Couldn't Dowd just as easily believe Trump is guilty, but has to avoid the appearance of back-stabbing so that he can claim to still be a Conservative in good standing for work?

I mean, I guess?! It's not his book, I'm sure he did this on deep background or whatever but he didn't hold back on trump so I'm not sure how this would have helped in that scenario. My sense is that he probably wouldn't come out and accuse trump of being guilty if that's what he believed, but it's clear from the book he didn't believe that, and the level of cooperation with Mueller is tough to reconcile

He says trump is such a monumentally bad witness that he would certainly perjure himself if he talked to Mueller
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,954
South Carolina
The only people who should be freaking out about a result like that are the ones who thought naively that O'Rourke had this in the bag. If it's more in the 4-6 point range like the author suggests, that's great for O'Rourke - it'd be an impressive overperformance and he still has time to catch up, even if that's incredibly hard.

And that's the thing - winning the Senate is going to be incredibly hard. Can't let a yucky poll kill our enthusiasm and momentum. O'Rourke would need pretty much everything to go right in order to win even the smallest of victories, but I said that about Doug Jones, too.

Yeah, don't treat 2018 like a "real election," Trump. That'll really help turnout.

Already the one talent he has emerges 50 days out: throwing people under the bus for something bad that happened to him, especially since he had a hand in it.

Did everyone see that it was SPECIFIC to DeSantis for standing by Reality reguarding the correct number of PR victims? How many #ETTD House flips in Florida could this make in light of even Curbelo looking a bit shaky?

It's genuinely ridiculous how fast everything has to go. Court trials can last up to a year or more, but we can't investigate someone for a permanent position for another month.

But then again, they're ACTING like they want to lose the Senate, too so stands to reason.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
I think Dr Ford's lawyer is trying to avoid an Anita Hill circus where it turns into a character assassination game for the Republicans. Remember, Anita Hill took the lie detector test and Clarence Thomas refused to. But that was not enough even for 1991. It wont be for today either. I actually think the ball is in Kavanaugh's court and he should say he's willing to do an interview with FBI.
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,389
Watching Maddow and seeing Hillary Clinton being interviewed. What could of been.

I need a break. I don't want to think about this shit everyday.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
I mean, I guess?! It's not his book, I'm sure he did this on deep background or whatever but he didn't hold back on trump so I'm not sure how this would have helped in that scenario. My sense is that he probably wouldn't come out and accuse trump of being guilty if that's what he believed, but it's clear from the book he didn't believe that, and the level of cooperation with Mueller is tough to reconcile

He says trump is such a monumentally bad witness that he would certainly perjure himself if he talked to Mueller

You understand why no one took your opinion at face value, right? Particularly considering your history of waving off Mueller's case in your <300 posts
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
I think Dr Ford's lawyer is trying to avoid an Anita Hill circus where it turns into a character assassination game for the Republicans. Remember, Anita Hill took the lie detector test and Clarence Thomas refused to. But that was not enough even for 1991. It wont be for today either. I actually think the ball is in Kavanaugh's court and he should say he's willing to do an interview with FBI.

It's the old chestnut of "If you didn't do anything wrong, why are you afraid of talking to the authorities". But in this case, I think it's actually true. Not only is an Old(ish) White Guy not going to be coerced into giving a false statement, but he also flips the whole situation on its head - he can say "I did not do this. I believe something happened to Ford, but I did not do this, I am sympathetic to her pain, and will voluntarily talk to the FBI in order to facilitate this situation".

Unless, of course, he did it, in which case, he's a bit screwed if the FBI actually do their jobs.

Also, saw this on my Twitter timeline
Dna5fjFU8AA-o79.jpg:large
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
You understand why no one took your opinion at face value, right? Particularly considering your history of waving off Mueller's case in your <300 posts


There's literally nothing in the book to come to that conclusion even if for some crazy reason you take everyone's statements and proxy leaks at face value. The book is really not about that anyway.
 
I think Dr Ford's lawyer is trying to avoid an Anita Hill circus where it turns into a character assassination game for the Republicans. Remember, Anita Hill took the lie detector test and Clarence Thomas refused to. But that was not enough even for 1991. It wont be for today either. I actually think the ball is in Kavanaugh's court and he should say he's willing to do an interview with FBI.

And there still time for new developments
 

Power Shot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
674
Let's not feed the troll.

Kav and Ford testifying together is ridiculous. They don't even allow victims and abusers at the same table in regular testifying.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,700
Yeah, the FBI did investigate the Anita Hill allegations and iirc put together a report.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
There's literally nothing in the book to come to that conclusion even if for some crazy reason you take everyone's statements and proxy leaks at face value. The book is really not about that anyway.

Woodward isn't a criminal investigator, so most fair-minded people wouldn't expect him to leave his professional lane to try and play one on TV.

People also forget that Woodward is known to stroke his sources' ego to protect his access and create a port in a storm for people who may provide information at a later time, or for a different project.

He isn't a disinterested scribe
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,276
I mean, I guess?! It's not his book, I'm sure he did this on deep background or whatever but he didn't hold back on trump so I'm not sure how this would have helped in that scenario. My sense is that he probably wouldn't come out and accuse trump of being guilty if that's what he believed, but it's clear from the book he didn't believe that, and the level of cooperation with Mueller is tough to reconcile

He says trump is such a monumentally bad witness that he would certainly perjure himself if he talked to Mueller

What makes you think Dowd didn't hold back on Trump?
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,700
This is my biggest red flag heading into the midterms and what keeps me up at night.

 
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