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US PoliERA 2019 |OT1| You down wit' NDP? (Yeah you know me!) Who's down wit' AOC? (This whole party!)
- Thread starter Midnight Jon
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No but you're probably internally obligated to justify this fucking trashfire strawman. Or delete your post history. Or block me.
PIGEON: Voting third party to defeat Nazis. I wish I was exaggerating this position.
Oh, I don't think he has a chance either. He did get some media coverage when he declared but as others are declaring it's faded pretty fast.
Waiting for the followup "I didn't do collusion, but even if I did there would be nothing wrong.
I'm using an extreme argument to make a point about the unreasonableness of a general principle. It's pretty simple.
Okay, so we agree that there is a point of candidate loathesomeness at which voting for the Democratic Party would not be justifiable or required, right? I'm arguing that Ojeda is past that point. If you disagree, you should say why.
If both parties nominate Nazis, that seems like the right response. Doesn't it?
Rudy.................... lol. Seriously, bro? It'll take literally days to compile all the video evidence against that. There's that much.
Lol, even if Trump is never directly implicated I'm still going to enjoy watching his campaign people go down in flames. Who knows maybe Mueller will surprise us and find enough evidence to indict someone we're not expecting like Ron and/or Rand Paul.
So now we are at
There was collusion
But just the Trump Campaign colluded
And Trump was blissfully unaware
There was collusion
But just the Trump Campaign colluded
And Trump was blissfully unaware
It sure is a signal to Manafort that he is will and truly Manafucked, that's for sure.
"Oh, just vote for the white supremacist who isn't quite as brazen about it as Trump" is the wildest "stereotypical white liberal dismissal of racism" position I've seen so-called allies defend in awhile.
Also, to be clear, none of the other serious Dem contenders would be appropriate here, since Ojeda is the only candidate who would drive me to leave the Democratic Party. I said in December of 2016 my one true fear is that Dems would respond to Trump by moving to recapture the white supremacist vote and normalize white supremacy. Ojeda is that candidate, in my view.
(I guess Gabbard would also present a real pickle if she got nominated. Not really sure what I would do there given her LGBT stances. I would probably ask people I trust for their views before making a final decision.)
That, to me, just doesn't fall in line with how people operate. When an elderly person with an AOL account responds to a "Nigerian prince", they don't want to be cheated out of their retirement money, they want what the scammer is promising at face value. People in desperate situations are prone to making bad decisions, this always has been and always will be true.
And the notion that every person who voted for Trump did so out of a desire to kill off all non-white people doesn't really merit serious consideration. Does Trump have a lock on the people who do feel that way? Certainly. Do, for instance, the one out of every eight black men who voted for Trump want to see all non-white people exterminated? Doubtful.
Yep, she said in her first sentence about being a blue-dog (concerning gun regulations) "I was wrong".
To be clear, I'm leaning toward Kamala at the moment and Ojeda isn't even in my top five.
There's a middle ground between "I don't think this person is a nazi" and "you should vote for this person."
Trump promised, explicitly, to be a white supremacist. It was a major theme of his campaign. That was the face value reading. By your own argument, the only way in which people got conned is that they wanted Trump to take stuff from people of color and give it to them, and he mostly screwed people of color without helping them.
I'm not voting for his ass. Who's saying just vote for him. And how is a third party in this moment an "allied" position?
Are you fucking high? Literally this entire discussion is predicated on you accusing me of being a bernie bro because I said I would vote third party rather than vote for Ojeda for President. How is that not "just vote for him?"
Ojeda is trash but voting third party is literally worse. We're not finding common ground on this in 2019 or 2020. I'm sorry but that's where I'm at on the logic.
The same way millions of black and brown people would stay home and still be allies lmao.
So UnapologeticallyBLK's characterization of your position is correct, right?
You're whiffing on the "just" part here. Nobody says it's not going to taste of shit. Just that it's not literally cyanide.
Don't frame my position as Ojeda is good. My position is Ojeda is garbage but third party is suicidal. I don't like it. You hate it. But it's still suicide.
Also you literally handwaved Bernie on this page in a way I haven't with Ojeda.
Not even remotely. If it was you could just quote me.
I mean, you'll have to explain to me how 16% of black men with college degrees and 1/3 of hispanic people voted for him if we live in a world where every person clearly understood Trump to be a white supremacist on the day of the election. I think you are kind of overestimating how attenuated a lot of people are to dog whistles and other such things that us politico types are hyper-aware of.
Again, I am not saying vote for Ojeda. I myself don't even plan to. I'm simply puzzled by the idea that every person who voted for Trump is a witting supporter of white supremacy and can in good faith be described as a nazi without doing some serious retconning on what does and doesn't make a person a nazi in the first place or, at the very least, diluting the word nazi to a point that it loses poignancy.
Some of these people are fine with white supremacy. There it is.
Remember when JonTron debated on twitch for two hours about how he's genetically inferior
No leverage
Not even trying to bargain
Terrible tactics
Etc
I didn't see Warren's interview, but this one isn't so bad. Interested in hearing more about her platform
Gillibrand is good about the super pacs and stuff, but her rhetoric about rewarding work and "fearless determination" against the "special interests" needs some refinement. Warren was much more at ease with this.
Some, yes. But Pigeon is making the argument that every single person who voted for Trump including, as I mentioned, a decent chunk of PoC, would like to see every non-white person literally exterminated, unless I have a shaky grasp of what the nazis stood for and did. I think voting for Trump makes you at best stupid, probably racist, and at worst a nazi. I don't think it definitely, unequivocally makes you a nazi unless we've just decided to stop giving a shit about what that specifically means.
Likely true.Teggy said:
I would not be surprised if he was operating on some kind of "I'm not a minority, I'm JonTron" mentality.
One of Trump's longest lasting legacies will be cementing the belief that he remains a mindbogglingly pathetic loser even as the leader of the most powerful nation in the world.
I can't find that graph/study showing that greatedr white ID->more conservative voting among Hispanic voters and now I'm mad I don't have it bookmarked.
To be fair, Trump usually has been smart enough to keep himself out of trouble regardless of what happens around him, and I am guessing the whole thing was crafted specifically to shield him even when everyone else around him gets caught.
I have no doubt he knows everything, but no records will be there to prove it.
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