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US PoliERA 2019 |OT2| #PresidentPelosi

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Oct 27, 2017
2,511
Nashville
Shutdown has like 2 days to get a deal as iirc, the house is bound by a new rule that requires a bill be on the floor for like 2-3? days or something before a vote. So we're in for it.
NPR had a good article on how the new dilemmas are about more moral isues, such as how many tend of thousands of beds ICE can have for detainees. Everyone vs. targeted criminals.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,676
Y'all just wait until Rashida leads the new Dem class to the first Palestine trip in August. an absolute shit show is coming.
Tlaib, who is the first Palestinian-American woman to be elected to Congress, hopes to draw on her roots in the region to offer her fellow incoming representatives an alternative introduction to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. She said her group will focus on issues like Israel’s detention of Palestinian children, education, access to clean water, and poverty. She may even take them to Beit Ur al-Foqa, the village where Tlaib’s grandmother lives, in the northern West Bank.
It is unclear who will join Tlaib on the trip. She is still working out the details of when it will take place and what advocacy organizations she will partner with to fund the delegation. But Tlaib is clear about one thing: She wants her delegation to humanize Palestinians, provide an alternative perspective to the one AIPAC pushes, and highlight the inherent inequality of Israel’s system of military occupation in Palestinian territories, which Tlaib likens to what African-Americans in the United States endured in the Jim Crow era. She is not planning any meetings with the Palestinian Authority or with Israeli government officials, a mainstay of the AIPAC trips.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,633
Good statement.
he has more of a mandate than Guaido, actual Venezuelans voted for him, unlike Guaido whose electorate consists of Mike Pence, John Bolton, and Elliott Abrams
Actual Venezuelans voted for the members of the National Assembly. Which was the last time Venezuela had legitimate elections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)
If you're talking about me saying she should be primaried last night, like 99% of that is because of the Maduro comments, not this. I know multiple people from Venezuela irl and defending Maduro's regime is just indefensible to me, even if it was from a point of ignorance. If she apologized for not knowing the situation well enough, I wouldn't be so upset, but she didn't. To me, personally, I would want someone to challenge her for that alone. I would feel that way no matter what color or religion she was.

Do I think she should resign or be forced out? Fuck no.
This is my position as well. RTing Greenwald and the pro-Maduro propaganda lines stuff make me believe we can do better. This incident isn't coloring my views on that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,532
I like Omar. But she has to realize she's not as twitter savvy as AOC. She should have from the start said she was talking about AIPAC. She's a unique congresswoman. Anything she says will be looked at harshly. Unfortunately.
 

LinktothePastGOAT

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,879
That's cool and no worries, but I disagree that they had to condemn it as quickly as they did without even trying to broker a dialogue here or without at least a little pushback to the ADL for jumping on Omar, but not on Trump. What signal are they sending to their black voters or their brown voters or their Muslim voters? This essentially says to me that they value Jewish voters over black voters. If they wanted to send the message that they want my vote and then they want me to shut up and not critique the white folks who run the whole party, they couldn't have done a better job than that response.

I'm just so angry now, and I've been angry since 2016 because the way in which this country doesn't give a fuck about me or my life or my opinion has revealed itself as even deeper than I ever might have dreamed, and the one party that I have to vote for here doesn't really care either. And I'm angry that supposed allies like Jewish-American organizations are out here doing this to black folks with legitimate criticisms of pro-Israel lobbying. I just don't have the patience for this shit anymore, so that's why I have such a visceral response here.
And that’s a fair point. The dem leadership probably felt the longer this went on the worse it’d be but you’re right, that doesnt justify not slowing down and doing this the right way.

As to your other points, nothing i can say as a white male since i’ll never experience what you have and do. All i can say is your justifiable and righteous anger is what is needed for people like myself to actually start understanding and hearing about the issues we never really have to face head on. Also know that there are leaders in the Jewish community who are trying to do better.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Miami
Matt Yglesias has been teeing off on twitter the past 24 hours about them and hasn't gotten people yelling at him! Because he's being precise.
Would you mind giving a few examples of what he's saying? I deleted my Twitter a few months back to protest Jack being a dipshit so I pretty much only see tweets when they're linked here.
 
Oct 31, 2017
373
There is no way of criticizing Israel lobby interference in American politics without invoking tropes. What she said is true and Pelosi and the rest of the Democratic Leadership should kindly fuck off.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,499
I like Omar. But she has to realize she's not as twitter savvy as AOC. She should have from the start said she was talking about AIPAC. She's a unique congresswoman. Anything she says will be looked at harshly. Unfortunately.
And yet I fear what most aspiring democrats will learn for that is that it's best not to talk about AIPAC.
Because I can't think of any other issue where such level of faux pas would have caused such reaction.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,115
Good statement.
I kinda wish she didn't have to add "or the NRA or the fossil fuel..." there, but I totally understand why she did.
I think it's important to distinguish that she's arguing against big money lobby groups rather than "the Jewish agenda." It's a very good statement and I like that she's not backing down in her criticism of AIPAC.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,957
And that’s a fair point. The dem leadership probably felt the longer this went on the worse it’d be but you’re right, that doesnt justify not slowing down and doing this the right way.

As to your other points, nothing i can say as a white male since i’ll never experience what you have and do. All i can say is your justifiable and righteous anger is what is needed for people like myself to actually start understanding and hearing about the issues we never really have to face head on. Also know that there are leaders in the Jewish community who are trying to do better.
I gotcha. And in response, because I feel it important to put this here, I should say that my defense of Omar is not some sort of "defend every black person with a controversial opinion about Jewish people" thing here, on my part and to be clear to you or other Jewish posters. I'm not up in here defending Alice Walker or Louis Farrakhan or people like that whose rhetoric is just typical traditional white anti-Semitic rhetoric. So I recognize that there is still lots and lots and lots of anti-Semitism and I'm not trying to downplay that at all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,633
Would you mind giving a few examples of what he's saying? I deleted my Twitter a few months back to protest Jack being a dipshit so I pretty much only see tweets when they're linked here.
Here's the thread teeing off. https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1094785629249028096
There is no way of criticizing Israel lobby interference in American politics without invoking tropes. What she said is true and Pelosi and the rest of the Democratic Leadership should kindly fuck off.
Yes, there is. See the tweet above.

If you can't do it without invoking them, what we have is a failure of vocabulary and imagination.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,709
Good statement.

Actual Venezuelans voted for the members of the National Assembly. Which was the last time Venezuela had legitimate elections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_(Venezuela)

This is my position as well. RTing Greenwald and the pro-Maduro propaganda lines stuff make me believe we can do better. This incident isn't coloring my views on that.
Don't even bother responding to that troll. I ignored him last night and he's been trolling all my posts anyway.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,499
I think it's important to distinguish that she's arguing against big money lobby groups rather than "the Jewish agenda." It's a very good statement and I like that she's not backing down in her criticism of AIPAC.
I think it's very important somebody argues against the Israeli agenda, though right now, I totally understand why she'd want to pivot away from that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,436
And yet I fear what most aspiring democrats will learn for that is that it's best not to talk about AIPAC.
Because I can't think of any other issue where such level of faux pas would have caused such reaction.
I think aspiring dems in general should re-evaluate how they message. Twitter is a mess, has been a mess, and will continue to be a mess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,532
And yet I fear what most aspiring democrats will learn for that is that it's best not to talk about AIPAC.
Because I can't think of any other issue where such level of faux pas would have caused such reaction.
You can. You just have to be nuanced. She clearly still called them out in her statement. Her original tweet didn't mention them at all. If she started out talking about them and explaining what they do. YES she would have gotten some push back from certain groups. But I feel public opinion would have been more on her side had come at this from a lobbying issue from the beginning.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,499
I think aspiring dems in general should re-evaluate how they message. Twitter is a mess, has been a mess, and will continue to be a mess.
Sure, but that feels way more like an AIPAC/Israel story than a twitter story.
I mean, it's not like AIPAC started painting any criticism of Israel as racism in 2006, and it's not like it's the first time a Democrat had to apologize for criticizing Israel.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Miami
Here's the thread teeing off. https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1094785629249028096

Yes, there is. See the tweet above.

If you can't do it without invoking them, what we have is a failure of vocabulary and imagination.
I read his thread and he's speaking from his direct experiences with AIPAC so I would expect that to be a lot more nuanced. I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect someone without that level of personal contact with AIPAC to form criticism without invoking the influence that they hold over politicians and influence usually involves money. Should people without that level of contact just not talk about AIPAC at all to avoid the possibility of falling into anti-Semitic tropes?
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,633
I read his thread and he's speaking from his direct experiences with AIPAC so I would expect that to be a lot more nuanced. I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect someone without that level of personal contact with AIPAC to form criticism without invoking the influence that they hold over politicians and influence usually involves money. Should people without that level of contact just not talk about AIPAC at all to avoid the possibility of falling into anti-Semitic tropes?
I've never worked with AIPAC and I don't have a problem being specific in criticism of them. They're super shitty!
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,605

If Omar get censured before King does, this is gonna be some fucking bullshit.
This is from the morning though, so I hope that statement released was it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,825
And that’s a fair point. The dem leadership probably felt the longer this went on the worse it’d be but you’re right, that doesnt justify not slowing down and doing this the right way.
You have to look at it through the lens of politics.

Everybody did exactly what they were supposed to do here. Leadership condemned anti-semitism and called on one of their members to apologize for her unfortunate statement. The member apologized for the unintentional offense and reiterated her position.

The quickest way to put the stamp of insincerity on her apology would have been for leadership to dress it up.
 
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