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Oct 25, 2017
16,738
And yet I fear what most aspiring democrats will learn for that is that it's best not to talk about AIPAC.
Because I can't think of any other issue where such level of faux pas would have caused such reaction.

You can. You just have to be nuanced. She clearly still called them out in her statement. Her original tweet didn't mention them at all. If she started out talking about them and explaining what they do. YES she would have gotten some push back from certain groups. But I feel public opinion would have been more on her side had come at this from a lobbying issue from the beginning.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I think aspiring dems in general should re-evaluate how they message. Twitter is a mess, has been a mess, and will continue to be a mess.
Sure, but that feels way more like an AIPAC/Israel story than a twitter story.
I mean, it's not like AIPAC started painting any criticism of Israel as racism in 2006, and it's not like it's the first time a Democrat had to apologize for criticizing Israel.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,465
Miami
Here's the thread teeing off. https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1094785629249028096

Yes, there is. See the tweet above.

If you can't do it without invoking them, what we have is a failure of vocabulary and imagination.
I read his thread and he's speaking from his direct experiences with AIPAC so I would expect that to be a lot more nuanced. I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect someone without that level of personal contact with AIPAC to form criticism without invoking the influence that they hold over politicians and influence usually involves money. Should people without that level of contact just not talk about AIPAC at all to avoid the possibility of falling into anti-Semitic tropes?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I read his thread and he's speaking from his direct experiences with AIPAC so I would expect that to be a lot more nuanced. I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect someone without that level of personal contact with AIPAC to form criticism without invoking the influence that they hold over politicians and influence usually involves money. Should people without that level of contact just not talk about AIPAC at all to avoid the possibility of falling into anti-Semitic tropes?
I've never worked with AIPAC and I don't have a problem being specific in criticism of them. They're super shitty!
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,282


If Omar get censured before King does, this is gonna be some fucking bullshit.
This is from the morning though, so I hope that statement released was it.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,194
And that's a fair point. The dem leadership probably felt the longer this went on the worse it'd be but you're right, that doesnt justify not slowing down and doing this the right way.
You have to look at it through the lens of politics.

Everybody did exactly what they were supposed to do here. Leadership condemned anti-semitism and called on one of their members to apologize for her unfortunate statement. The member apologized for the unintentional offense and reiterated her position.

The quickest way to put the stamp of insincerity on her apology would have been for leadership to dress it up.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
What do y'all think the chances are of a woman/woman 2020 ticket?
I think there's a decent chance, but it's also quite likely the Dem nominee picks someone who wasn't considered to be a real contender.

Like everyone acts like the presidential nominee will pick another frontrunner and create a unity ticket or something, and that seems pretty rare. We didn't get McCain-Romney, Obama-Clinton, Romney-Santorum, Clinton-Sanders, Trump-Cruz etc.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,465
Miami
I've never worked with AIPAC and I don't have a problem being specific in criticism of them. They're super shitty!
I can almost guarantee you that someone out there right now thinks that calling them shitty is anti-Semitic. It's not that easy to navigate but I like Omar's response and apology for not being more clear last night. I kind of wish that the Dem leadership hadn't thrown her under the bus so forcefully however.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Omar's statement was very good. I just wish that Dem leadership had threaded the needle between defending her core criticism of the Israeli lobby while still pointing out the issues with how she put it. Would've been good to see them more visibly standing with their popular young member on this.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I can almost guarantee you that someone out there right now thinks that calling them shitty is anti-Semitic. It's not that easy to navigate but I like Omar's response and apology for not being more clear last night. I kind of wish that the Dem leadership hadn't thrown her under the bus so forcefully however.
Ignore it when it comes from the GOP, listen when it comes from your own side is a very easy metric.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,718
The Native American hits are never meant to actually poison her relationship with Native Americans.

They're just there to belittle her.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Seriously, Omar's tweets were sloppy, but the response to them were pretty damn sloppy themselves, and I doubt we're going to get the same apology from them that Omar gave.



[B]Matthew Yglesias[/B]
@mattyglesias

Congressional leaders of both parties really did a good job today of debunking the notion that pro-Israel groups wield disproportionate influence on Capitol Hill.
 
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Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
The Native American hits are never meant to actually poison her relationship with Native Americans.

They're just there to belittle her.
100%.

Especially considering Trump himself belittles Native Americans.

---
My only actual tie to AIPAC is I used to work at a Jewish school. AIPAC would fully pay for several of the high school students to come to Washington DC and lobby for them every year. The school didn't pay a dime or pay any donations to them for it. That's about it.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,701
I cannot find any directly elected female heads of government (ie. not a Prime Minister) who have had another woman as their running mate. I might have missed one. But women being elected as Presidents that are both heads of state and government are extremely rare anyways.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,200
Sure, but that feels way more like an AIPAC/Israel story than a twitter story.
I mean, it's not like AIPAC started painting any criticism of Israel as racism in 2006, and it's not like it's the first time a Democrat had to apologize for criticizing Israel.
I think twitter being what it is, is what of the main motivators to start this all off with a cheeky hottake seemingly more geared towards getting retweets and high fives than actually saying anything meaningful.



If Omar get censured before King does, this is gonna be some fucking bullshit.
This is from the morning though, so I hope that statement released was it.


I don't expect anything else to happen after Pelosi remark and her apology. Unless you watch evening cable news which will likely trip over themselves for a night or two.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I think twitter being what it is, is what of the main motivators to start this all off with a cheeky hottake seemingly more geared towards getting retweets and high fives than actually saying anything meaningful.
I'm certainly in favor of every Democratic congressperson whose name doesn't rhyme with Alexandria Ocasio Shortez geting off twitter
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
I wonder how much calculus is going to be about uniting the geographical coalitions, with say a coastal and a midwestern candidate, versus the more cynical "we haven't even elected a woman president or vice president, is putting two women on the ballot together politically viable?"
 

SwordsmanofS

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,451
we're going to get a no deal Brexit aren't we
While it may not be a popular opinion, I always thought that Hard Brexit was realistically the only real outcome once Leave won. All nations in the EU have veto rights on any deal, and any deal that could get all of their support was never going to fly in the UK government. Same the other way round- any deal the UK could all agree was acceptable, the EU would flat out reject. There are some nations in the EU that would probably prefer that the UK get as soft a treatment as possible, while other nations (cough cough France) want to punish the Brits as hard as possible.

There was never any real chance of a deal.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,194
I think there's a decent chance, but it's also quite likely the Dem nominee picks someone who wasn't considered to be a real contender.
Kamala/Jerry Brown 2020.

"California cleaning up your shit."

Now Cohen's testimony is postponed again. What a goddamn tease
Dude is a grifter. They all are.

This idea that he was ever going to provide anything of substance is ridiculous.
 
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