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US PoliERA 2019 |OT2| #PresidentPelosi
- Thread starter Midnight Jon
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The filibuster is not the thing stopping McConnell. If he wanted to pass a bunch of awful shit, he'd have already nuked it and done it. Taxes were what he wanted and that's what he did.
This is a very bad take. Feinstein putting out a counter proposal that is no more likely to pass but is also less ambitious and less detailed is just dumb -- it's a strategy you'd expect from republicans (that was part of their strategy against ACA). It is absolutely worthy of criticism. Whether or not individual dems like AOC's GND as is, they should be helping build momentum for climate change action while we're in the minority -- not doing the opposite by trying to poke holes in the most popular effort we've seen yet.
Yes, republicans controlling senate means we can't pass anything... that's why it helps dems to actually have big things to campaign on! You think it makes more sense to complain to republicans until they help us pass it...? Really?
Feinstein's proposal is irrelevant. Feinstein is really irrelevant lol. She'll be retired before the Dems have Senate control again I assume.
No, I think it makes more sense to direct all of our anger toward Republicans, realize that no meaningful action will occur as long as they hold power, and channel our rage and existential anxiety into tangible actions to vote them out.
Of course we need bold policies on which to campaign. And we have them or are developing them! I'm saying that Feinstein's four-page climate prospectus or whatever is irrelevant because (a) no one's campaigning on what she's proposing; all of the major candidates have endorsed the GND; and (b) nothing, from her four-page outline on up, is passing as long as the GOP holds power, so it might behoove everyone to dedicate themselves to ousting Republicans instead of spending an inordinate amount of time on whatever this silly little incident has been.
Lmao. You go girl. You should firebomb turtle while you're at if tbh.
This.
For once I'm backing the idealistic left on this one. Auto you of all people know how bad faith the GOP is. You know that what Feinstein responded with is the very reason we're now in the position we're in. Hell Obama clutched his pearls over the very basic stuff he did and that wasn't even enough.
Propose big things, and enact as much of it as you can. Show the younger folks you actually want to try and fight the future instead of just "talk" about it.
But the groundwork has to be laid now because how the democrats retake the senate will determine how the democrats act in the senate.
You jest but if we keep ignoring this issue people will grow desperate.
Wars won't just be external; people in the US will feel the squeeze and continuing to not do anything will lead to extreme responses and violence. Especially when people can no longer feed their families.
So let's just sit at home and complain about not being able to do it.
That'll show 'em.
Elect Copmala or Klobberer or whoever and make yucky Schumer Majority leader first. Then it might make internet firebranding more valuable than my relative apathy. Probably not. But maybe.
What I don't understand is you people bitch and moan about no policy proposals for health care and taxation but someone actually proposes something about climate change and you all lose your minds.
It really is like herding cats in here.
It really is like herding cats in here.
Seems like you agree Feinstein's actions are counterproductive but you don't want to admit it so instead you try to save face and play it off as conveniently inconsequential.
^
Too many milquetoast responses have been made on Climate Change.
We either start drawing the battle lines now or forever accept the future that awaits us all.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/us/politics/medicare-for-all-lobbyists.amp.html
Any idea which campaign lieutenant this is?
Feinstein should have retired a bazillion years ago, and let someone else fill the seat. Her 4 page whatever is about as meaningful as the green dream or whatever because none of it is going anywhere.
The candidates with a good shot at the nomination are in principle for the green dream whatever anyway.
I just don't really see what the endgame is in making a fuss over shit that in practicality is pointless. Which is probably why Turtle has scheduled this vote anyway.
The candidates with a good shot at the nomination are in principle for the green dream whatever anyway.
I just don't really see what the endgame is in making a fuss over shit that in practicality is pointless. Which is probably why Turtle has scheduled this vote anyway.
You need to actually highlight how you can tackle the issue; open a conversation on the subject. You can't do that if you don't propose new things that move interest and generate curiosity.
AOC understands this. So does Pelosi; why else would she not stop them?
I mean, I'm all for pragmaticism but I also support rallying cries and symbolic gestures meant to motivate and inspire towards real action.
I mean, reparations for slaves is a messy proposal; one that will cause social unrest and debate. But I still support it even though the chances of it passing are slim to nill because it got everyone talking about social justice and ways to actually fix our current (or try to) social issues.
I mean, reparations for slaves is a messy proposal; one that will cause social unrest and debate. But I still support it even though the chances of it passing are slim to nill because it got everyone talking about social justice and ways to actually fix our current (or try to) social issues.
Idealism means nothing - zero, zip, zilch, nada, goose egg - unless you have the power to translate it into practical, tangible results. We currently lack that power because we're in the Senate minority. Our being in the minority has absolutely zero to do with Feinstein's proposal, nor will whatever happened in her office yesterday remedy the situation. The only solution is to win elections, get the majority, and push through as much as we can. That is a concrete goal and thus where I focus my energy. I feel just as strongly about these issues as you do and recognize the gravity as much as you do. I just direct all my efforts toward the ballot box.
I said precisely what I meant: her proposal is irrelevant to anything and whatever transpired in her office accomplished nothing because we don't have a majority. We do, however, have the GND on which to campaign. All of the viable candidates have endorsed it. And we have an election in ~20 months.
Well, then it's a good thing no one's campaigning on a piddly four-page proposal Feinstein cooked up in response to McConnell's sham vote and is instead embracing a plan replete with the big ideas we need, isn't it?
I didn't know Dianne Feinstein held this much influence over the party.
Okay, so you admit some people in the party are handling it well and recognize the urgency, while in your estimation one person - in this case Feinstein - did not handle the issue well.
So what is this even about?
Are we making a stink because one senator - who's not running for president, who's not in the House where the GND has so far been pushed in earnest - gave a lackluster response that ultimately doesn't mean anything or won't influence campaigns or policy in any meaningful way and whose proposal is, as I've said fifty times, is ultimately irrelevant like everything else because we don't control the Senate?
Precisely.
Maybe it's just a difference in mentality then because I generally derive nothing from symbolic gestures that don't have tangible outcomes.
I'm not concerned about the president here. I'm concerned about the other dem senators who might roadblock this too. The only way to do this is to change the culture to the point of not just believing in it, but understanding it as a huge yet solvable problem.
You know why all these studies on climate get brushed aside despite being hugely alarming? Because people don't believe there's a solution to it, and that makes it so depressing, so futile, that no one wants to think about it. It's absolutely hugely important for people to not just believe there's a problem that's immediate, but that there's a solution that's doable.
You see, morale and idealism serves a purpose when you wish to change things. You two may only look at the facts and the logic but there is emotion and a psychology behind it all.
My point still stands; this issue is a microchasm of the fact that Dems are chasing out the last 30 years worth of demons with Trump at the helm. Feinstein represents the apathetic centrism that refused to fix or even attempt to fix issues facing us today.
The anger towards her response IMO is justified, even if the video was edited and put out in bad faith.
All of this.
DiFi is part of the group of politicians and mostly decent people who refuse to act simply becasue they either gave up or don't think it serious enough.
If you want to be part of that group then just get out of our way while we try to save our futures.
It was more of a royal you then you in particular.
Normally we're in agreement on most issues; Climate Change being one of the few I think leftists are right to be overtly critical and harsh on Dems for. As a huge climate supporter and environmentalist I have too many tire treads on my back to be overly forgiving of the Dem establishment and D.C. power block.
Kindly tell me how we differ on the issue of climate change itself or show me where I've opposed the kind of policy we need.
I worded it poorly; we seem to be in disagreement that there should be no anger towards the Democratic establishment on this.
I think that statement is false. They too were told of this issue in the 70's and had majorities before now to fix it. They chose not to; worse they used their bully pulpit to downplay the issue and claim it minor or too much work when if wed been taking minor steps back then we wouldn't need major change as much now.
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Well, technically it's "the Senate used arcane parliamentary procedure to shitcan any serious attempt at tackling it the last time the Democrats had a trifecta that wasn't plurality-Confederate" but to-may-to, to-mah-to
It was more than just the Senate; they could have been more vocal and raised awareness. They could have done more than just paid lip service; they could have been doing anything and everything more than they did until the past few years. Hell, what Obama managed to do should have been done decades ago.
Our grave will read "we could have done more" and will be wholly justified.
I don't mind the green new deal being out there even if its "unserious". I'm ok with people getting it in the mindshare even if bitch McConnell uses it as a cudgel. I'm not so ok with people then acting like there's not going to be more moderate voices that want to do something more moderate. Either you believe Feinstein doesn't want to do anything, which, fine, she sucks and that is possible, or you look at her shitty idea and debate her. The project veritas-ing seems to make little sense to me.
If we have a larger conversation on climate change it can only be good. Shaming her into supporting the gnd with this kids on tape stuff is bush league. She sucks enough as it is.
If we have a larger conversation on climate change it can only be good. Shaming her into supporting the gnd with this kids on tape stuff is bush league. She sucks enough as it is.
"The name of the coalition is intentionally nondescript, and its executive director, Lauren Crawford Shaver, who led Mrs. Clinton's efforts in 2016 to put marginal states into play, is cagey when asked for details. She says only that the group is planning "a big nationwide effort" with grass-roots allies."
Truth is they don't care. It's simple as that. They figure by time shit hits the fan they'd be dead, or so old it won't matter.
These people have always been their own worst enemy, and the greatest obstacle in the way of achieving the things they claim to want.
If that was her job, maybe she'll suck at doing this too.
Yes, both on PC and mobile for me.
When I post it also puts double posts of the last few up as well.
Calling that clip project veritas-ing is just insulting. There's a separate problem here with the center-left assuming bad faith from the left where there isn't any. The info they leave out, like in that clip, is usually just completely unimportant to leftists. They don't look at the beginning of that video and think "oh, that changes everything, better hide it". After all, the whole 15 minutes was posted by the same account that made the clip.
If you think that additional info is important, that's fine to bring it up, but don't just assume that leaving it out is done in bad faith and no one would ever have a problem if they just had that additional info from the start.
I didn't really think the full 15 minutes made DiFi look that much better tbh. She still speaks with tons of contempt just because she won an election some months ago.
Slight shift in Mueller behavior in recent filing:
Basically, Mueller isn't dropping as many detailed clues in his latest filings as he used to. She saw that as a way for him to give public reports on the progress of the investigation. She suggests that if the investigation is indeed wrapping up, Mueller may be keeping more close to his chest because he's confident he'll be able to release his final report publicly. While reading it, I had the fear she acknowledges in this second tweet -- that Barr stepped in to tamp things down.
Basically, Mueller isn't dropping as many detailed clues in his latest filings as he used to. She saw that as a way for him to give public reports on the progress of the investigation. She suggests that if the investigation is indeed wrapping up, Mueller may be keeping more close to his chest because he's confident he'll be able to release his final report publicly. While reading it, I had the fear she acknowledges in this second tweet -- that Barr stepped in to tamp things down.
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from the perspective of "could have done more", yes, this is correct
from the perspective of "could've done fucking anything whatsoever", it's absolutely on the Senate that we don't have a whole lot of basic shit a GND's gonna need to tackle
Well a) the US is already taking action in the form of sending aid and also Elliott Abrams for some reason, so Pompeo's statement doesn't mean much, and b) Guaidó might as well participate in the meeting in Bogotá because they're not letting him back into Venezuela now.
We do care. How about leftists try upping their game at trying to convince politician who you disagree with civilly for once, rather than attack them and being shocked when they fight back? Or is that the only trick you have? You're not gaining any friends by being the left version of Project Veritas. We're not Republicans, so stop treating us like we are.
They could have played the whole clip for context on twitter but they didn't - they made sure the edited clip was out there to smear Feinstein because that's all that was. A smear job. Leftists need to stop assuming the centre left are acting on bad faith before the discussion begins, that's not what allies to do each other - they talk. Find common ground, act friendly. They don't take out the knives when they meet.
Leaving it on their website was bad faith, that's why everyone was responding to their edited clip, that was what they wanted the world to see. They didn't want nuance from this, they wanted to burn Feinstein.
There is a way to do this and have a good faith discussion but Sunrise made sure that didn't happen.
Considering how Sunrise is an ally of the Justice Dems, am I going to wake one day and find out they did this to AOC?
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