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US PoliERA 2019 |OT2| #PresidentPelosi
- Thread starter Midnight Jon
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I see he's up and extra NPD this morning.
Getting nervous there, Vova? :D
One of the greatest gifts to the crooks and traitors right now would be to figleaf the fight for this country as partisan witch hunt.
Besides, a few million NTs aint stopping this demographic woke train, especially when they leave the GOP.
Getting nervous there, Vova? :D
One of the greatest gifts to the crooks and traitors right now would be to figleaf the fight for this country as partisan witch hunt.
Besides, a few million NTs aint stopping this demographic woke train, especially when they leave the GOP.
The last paragraph calls out Omar specifically, purposefully.
As for Nadler's comment before, he should probably speak with Omar directly. But at least Nadler was at the airport representing constituents when the first travel ban was put into place.
You can't say shit about AIPAC and expect to walk away unscathed. Omar is right of course, but that's a really difficult conversation that requires a good strategy and careful action.
I trust you are going to be just as harsh on going after Bernie for evolving on crime policy and gun rights.
Again, she was against it in 2014, 2 years after Washington and Colorado legalized it, neither she nor California were ahead of anything at this point.
And I think that the fact the her office released that assessment make her resisting legalization worse, not better.
I'm more than happy that she changed her mind on this, I really am, I mean, I suspect she didn't really change her mind on any of that. I think it's just that "tough on crime" is no longer a winning position for her to have.
And getting your "law and order" credentials by being "tough on crime" is a very common tactic that Democrats employs, you see it in people like Biden and Bill Clinton, and it's shit, and it's ruin lives, and I honestly think if we keep letting them handwave such crap people will keep on doing it.
But if she gets dragged for this shit, prosecutors with national aspiration would start thinking that such stances are bad for their career, I think you already starting to see it, and I think that's a great change.
So left or right, if you criticize Israeli foreign policy you are antisemetic.
For the last time - the controversy isn't about criticizing Israel. It was her phrasing her argument using millennium old antisemitic dog whistles in a joking manner.
I don't know why you would think I'm a Bernie fan, but for the record, I am not, not at the slightest.
But seriously, why would you bring Bernie into this discussion?
I mean, we all been on the internet, I can't think of many examples of online discussions that were improved by unnecessarily adding Bernie Sanders to the mix.
They'd vote to suspend those rules if needed. There's no way they'd let an arbitrary rule cause a shutdown.
Agreed. This is hypocritical as fuck.
I didn't like her statements, and I think it was a really bad look, but I don't think a formal reprimand is in order for this when most Republicans say worse shit all the damn time and nothing is done. I do think Nancy should talk to her privately about it, but it doesn't even need to be made public imo.
If her constituents are unsatisfied, they will show it in the polls.
The pro-Maduro comments, though, deserved more than the zero attention they were given outside of polinut circles. Those alone were completely disqualifying for me and were Tootsie pro-Assad level of bullshit.
Is it a dog whistle if you call out spending by a specific political action committee. That doesnt seem like a dog whistle to me.
Can you find me one person who gave her shit for that but was okay with other criticisms of AIPAC?
I'm struggling to think of one.
I'm sure you can find like one, but most of the shit that she's getting are from the "if you're not with Netanyahu you're an anti-semite" crowd, and I'm not sure it's super smart to signal boost that crap.
If a Jewish person tells you that something has antisemitic undertones you should listen. Same as if a black person tells you that what you're saying has racist undertones. I don't give a fuck about AIPAC or Israel or any of that shit. That stereotype has been used against me for all of my life, so I'm gonna call it out, and fuck you and anyone else who thinks I or any other Jewish person who's hurt by this as an ulterior motive. Stop enabling discrimination. Fucking stop.
I think her heart's in the right place. I just think she should choose her words more carefully. Apparently that makes me an apartheid apologist according to some folks.
It is if it's a religious PAC.
I do think going after Tlaib is bullshit. She has done nothing wrong and is doing a great job imo. Pro-Israel people are dogwhistling her because she is for BDS. And it's bullshit.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly where I am.
It's frustrating all around.
You're absolutely right, but it still bears repeating that we should call out dogwhistles for what they are, even if they come from our side, even if they're not intentional.
Why is calling out AIPAC lobbying Congress with $ antisemitic ?
If you try hard enough you can twist criticizing AIPAC into being antisemitic because you're perpetuating the trope that Jewish people have money and influence over the government. It's unfair and anyone who thinks critically can tell apart legitimate criticism of Israel/AIPAC from antisemitism.
I'm Jewish too and I don't see it.
The only thing I only see is what I've always seen - that for quite a few people, every and any criticism of AIPAC is antisemitism.
So now what?
AIPAC actually doesn't spend that much money on lobbying, they mostly use volunteers. Granted, other Jewish orgs get marching orders from them, but the amount spent on Israel lobbying is minuscule compared to the greater lobbying machine. It's mostly volunteers.
(I didn't know you were Jewish, that's cool)
I can't speak for those people, but for me, it's frustrating when I have a legitimate criticism of someone's word choice, and I'm basically told to just suck it up. I think she's mostly right on the money, but I wish she would choose her words better, and I wish people would stop talking over me and telling me what is and isn't antisemitic. That's all.
If Hasan Minhaj did the Netflix special about Israel like he did about Saudi Arabia he would be called an antisemite at this rate
She didn't mention AIPAC until after receiving criticizing for throwing out the "All about the benjamins" comment -- which, alone and without context, is too close to the anti-semitic trope which is why you see pushback from all sides.
Matt Yglesias expanded his tweet thread from yesterday into an article: https://www.vox.com/2019/2/11/18220...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
whole article is good, another snippet:
OP
OP
Really good article. I think criticizing AIPAC based on the less formal ways they influence our politicians would be more accurate and less easily misconstrued.
I strongly believe this drive against Rep. Omar especially now with ADL is purely driven by undertones of xenophobia and Muslim phobia. Basically what they are saying is . We will defend you if you are discriminated in America as long as you keep your mouth shut. If you speak against Israeli foreign policy or use words like money when talking of lobbyists working on behalf of right wing Israeli government then we will call you an anti semite
This "defcon 1" response by ADL as someone here called it would not happen if Rep. Omar was Rep. Cathy
This "defcon 1" response by ADL as someone here called it would not happen if Rep. Omar was Rep. Cathy
Yeah, people are waiting for them to give away the game. Fair or not, their words will be heavily scrutinized and going forward they should choose their words very carefully. Honestly, with regards to Israel, Tlaib should have known better to begin with.
No but for real, what actual harm do you think her words are gonna do?
Like, yeah, there are violent anti-semites in the US, but I seriously doubt they're taking marching orders from Ilhan Omar.
On the flip side, it's quite easy to see the harm that branding any criticism of AIPAC as antisemitism does, right? I mean, this has a chilling effect, can you think of any other organization where saying something which is generally true will get you that much shit, and that type of shit?
p.s.
Dude, for real, don't stan for AIPAC, it's a horrible organization that has been pretty much a arm of the Likud for quite a while now.
Of course, no one is allowed to criticize Israel's policies especially if you a Muslim. It's infuriating because the message has been consistent from the new crop of Democrats pushing against ALL money from politics no matter where it's coming from but because of the Jewish racist trope perpetuated by antisemites we can't criticize their money and influence in our government like others? That's bullshit and they know it.
Why are you treating AIPAC with such kids gloves?
They are fucking garbage, for real, those motherfuckers lobbied against the Oslo peace process.
Do you like try to make sure people are super fair to fox news too?
You can criticize the influence of lobbying on political positions without saying they're only in it for the shekels when referring to Jewish interest groups.
Totally, AIPAC super sucks. I'm honestly more annoyed at people telling me what is and isn't antisemitic. Like, different people can feel different ways (I personally understood what she was talking about, but I can understand why someone might be upset), but as with other minority issues, it's best to err on the side of caution.
It's kinda like the whole "come at the king, best not miss" thing, I guess. If you're gonna come for a lobby as huge and powerful as Israel, you gotta be precise and thorough. I'm not mad at her, really. I'm just upset that the vagueness of her tweet has sparked all of this, and I'm annoyed at some people trying to goysplain at me over this.
Not trying to treat them with kids gloves! I hate AIPAC, I just think being more precise would be more cutting.
EDIT: You're clearly more informed than me on a lot of stuff, so I'll defer to you. I'm just tired of everyone saying that all of the criticism she's getting is illegitimate. Most of it is, but I just want her to do better.
She said "Benjamins" followed by music signs referring to the way money is reffered to in rap music. Out of touch farts not understanding the reference and taking it as racism is on them not her.
AIPAC Is not a Jewish interest group. It's a right wing foreign policy lobbying acting for Netanyahu's interests
She probably could have made the same point without tripping alarms. Or maybe she couldn't have. Not sure. The left consistently underestimates the degree of devotion to Israel the mainstream media and political establishment have. And also like the actual voting populace.
A brown person said something critical of pro-Israel lobbying! Quick! To the Batmobile!
I wonder if the ADL and its members realize that they have a serious problem with running toward whiteness and embracing it.
Yeah. Not a fan of Harris myself, but she has been pretty pragmatic in a sensible way on marijuana legalization. I don't see a real critique of her movement on policy here.
An update in the replies: https://twitter.com/BorisEP/status/1095003572180340737
ZRR @zacharyrraines
the liberal media is outraged that I argue with parody accounts but I am right to do so pic.twitter.com/PiR6gHzFHe
the liberal media is outraged that I argue with parody accounts but I am right to do so pic.twitter.com/PiR6gHzFHe
Has the ADL put out a big press release like this for any of the shit Trump has said over the past 2 years?
I think she would have tripped some bad faith alarms regardless of what she said, partly because it's Israel, partly because she's Muslim -- and I don't think she should be scared of tripping those particular alarms. But she tripped too many alarms, some in good faith, by being sloppy in this instance.
An update in the replies: https://twitter.com/BorisEP/status/1095003572180340737
ZRR @zacharyrraines
the liberal media is outraged that I argue with parody accounts but I am right to do so pic.twitter.com/PiR6gHzFHe
lol
I think they maaaaaay have put one out early on, but I don't think it was about Trump, I think it was a general "antisemitism is on the rise and that's bad" type thing. Don't quote me on that. The fact that they put one out for this is ridiculous though.
O'Rourke vs Trump: Rally Dual. FIGHT!
It will be hilarious if O'Rourkes crowd size outnumbers Trumps.
It will be hilarious if O'Rourkes crowd size outnumbers Trumps.
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