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US PoliERA 2019 |OT4| Folded like a DOG

Oct 25, 2017
8,538
Yes.The key word here being "demanding". Linkura explicitly framed her post in terms of what she would like:


Again - expressing a preference is not back-seat modding.
That's mincing words at what's a thinly veiled conspiratorial angle that "the damn Bernie stans" are disrupting a space where it's clearly unwelcome. It's parsing semantics when there's a clear and overt attempt to stifle and direct vitriol and the course of discussion to be about individual users choice of candidates which is plain to see. Come now, we can at least be honest about these things.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,925
That's mincing words at what's clearly used as sarcasm with a thinly veiled conspiratorial angle that "the damn Bernie stans" are disrupting a space where it's clearly unwelcome. It's parsing semantics when there's a clear and overt attempt to stifle and direct vitriol and the course of discussion to be about individual users choice of candidates which is plain to see. Come now, we can at least be honest about these things.
Oh, okay, so now we're inferring what Linkura meant, through some subjectively interpreted tone? Huh.

I read her post and saw none of what you described, so my argument here is honest with regards to how I approach that post. *shrugs*
 

ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,067
That's mincing words at what's a thinly veiled conspiratorial angle that "the damn Bernie stans" are disrupting a space where it's clearly unwelcome. It's parsing semantics when there's a clear and overt attempt to stifle and direct vitriol and the course of discussion to be about individual users choice of candidates which is plain to see. Come now, we can at least be honest about these things.
This is what I was thinking when I read her post. I know there is a hostility between the various political groups, if those are the right words for it, on this website.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,925
This is what I was thinking when I read her post. I know there is a hostility between the various political groups, if those are the right words for it, on this website.
I think for sure there is a... dislike of Bernie stans, since they can be so dismissive of Bernie's flaws. But I read the post as more an irritation with stans of any sort, as well as the almost "drive-by posting" some people here do of just posting news without any original thoughts. It's useful on the one hand - it makes the thread a one-stop-shop for US political news - but on the other, we all read the papers, and most of us (all of us?) come here for discussion.

So, yeah, I read it as a call-out of sorts, but not of anyone specific. And, again, certainly not back-seat modding. *shrugs* :)
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,123
Except that's all it is - talk. People are moving on climate change but due to how congress works and the lack of movement in general due to planning in making it a top priority for the Dems this is why we're stuck with. Can't have the latter without the former, and Bernie prefered staying obscure in Vermont than acting when we had time. I know the others are corporate and less inclined due to donors and whatnot but Bernie's supposed to be a true believer in all this and he did nothing.
I'm going to be pretty blunt here about my views on the impact of climate change and the ramifications for a lot of people.

We aren't going to fix anything in a near-enough timespan to avoid widespread, global catastrophes that lead to major mass migrations that will further lead to xenophobia resulting in hideously far-right right backlash against immigrants/refugees, and wars are going to be fought over it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,337
Western Canada
Waiving my lurker status here to drop my two cents (sorry regulars, I'd post more if I felt I had something meaningful to contribute as a foreigner).

I understand the appeal with Sanders and like a lot of his platform, but I'm struggling to wrap my mind around the appeal of Sanders when Warren is also in the race. She's just as progressive as he is, if not even more so, plus has a mountain of legislative BDE, works better with allies in DC, and is, frankly, a decade younger. If you're a staunch progressive, she clearly seems like the better choice in pretty much every aspect. The only point in Sanders' favour seems to be that he's seen as "anti-establishment." But... who gives a shit about that?
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
6,449
Minnesota
Waiving my lurker status here to drop my two cents (sorry regulars, I'd post more if I felt I had something meaningful to contribute as a foreigner).

I understand the appeal with Sanders and like a lot of his platform, but I'm struggling to wrap my mind around the appeal of Sanders when Warren is also in the race. She's just as progressive as he is, if not even more so, plus has a mountain of legislative BDE, works better with allies in DC, and is, frankly, a decade younger. If you're a staunch progressive, she clearly seems like the better choice in pretty much every aspect. The only point in Sanders' favour seems to be that he's seen as "anti-establishment." But... who gives a shit about that?
There are differences. Sanders is still left of Warren ideologically (restoring prisoners' right to vote is the most recent example) and has stronger messaging on the morality of his policies. He also has a more consistent voting record and is less likely to take positions based on how well they poll. Warren on the other hand is a policy wonk (which is awesome) but wonkery isn't really something that drives most people to the polls. Bernie's populism strikes a chord with a lot of working class people and is probably why so many people like him.

Having said all that, Warren is still my #2 so I'd have no complaints about her winning the nomination.

EDIT:

And for some perspective, here's Britannica's definition of Left-wing ideology:

Left, In politics, the portion of the political spectrum associated in general with egalitarianism and popular or state control of the major institutions of political and economic life. The term dates from the 1790s, when in the French revolutionary parliament the socialist representatives sat to the presiding officer’s left. Leftists tend to be hostile to the interests of traditional elites, including the wealthy and members of the aristocracy, and to favour the interests of the working class (seeproletariat). They tend to regard social welfare as the most important goal of government. Socialism is the standard leftist ideology in most countries of the world; communism is a more radical leftist ideology.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/left

Clearly that's more descriptive of Sanders than Warren, so ideologically speaking, it's pretty easy to see why Sanders would appeal to leftists even with Warren in the race.
 
Last edited:
Dec 26, 2018
5,482
I'm going to be pretty blunt here about my views on the impact of climate change and the ramifications for a lot of people.

We aren't going to fix anything in a near-enough timespan to avoid widespread, global catastrophes that lead to major mass migrations that will further lead to xenophobia resulting in hideously far-right right backlash against immigrants/refugees, and wars are going to be fought over it.
Which is why I'm frustrated with Bernie, and everyone else, in politics not doing enough about this. I do know this won't get fixed unless people figure this shit out to passed congress via political means, which should have been a major priority decades ago. Instead it looks like people never broke this code for whatever reasons and we're going to all deal with the consequences of that failure.

So what do you want the Dems to do? How do you want them to tackle climate change?
I want them to try as hard as they can to get the most progressive bills passed congress to fix this same as you but I'm ok with them through traditional means. I'd love it were there another option to get more radical bills through but we don't live in that world where that's possible.
 
Oct 30, 2017
10,447
London
Which is why I'm frustrated with Bernie, and everyone else, in politics not doing enough about this. I do know this won't get fixed unless people figure this shit out to passed congress via political means, which should have been a major priority decades ago. Instead it looks like people never broke this code for whatever reasons and we're going to all deal with the consequences of that failure.



I want them to try as hard as they can to get the most progressive bills passed congress to fix this same as you but I'm ok with them through traditional means. I'd love it were there another option to get more radical bills through but we don't live in that world where that's possible.
I expect the next Dem to declare a climate emergency and divert funding to energy and adaptation projects. Congress is a lost cause.

Might as well explore those expanded executive powers Trump’s enjoyed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,925
Warren on the other hand is a policy wonk (which is awesome) but wonkery isn't really something that drives most people to the polls. Bernie's populism strikes a chord with a lot of working class people and is probably why so many people like him.
I think this under-estimates how well Warren has been doing on-the-road. This Time longform article illustrates how well she's connecting with voters through a mixture of policies that people can easily understand help them, and a casual bonhomie that endears her to people. I also think Warren is going to find it easier to push herself as the anti-Bernie as the campaign winds up - specific policy outlines, younger, and a woman. She can push all these differences as positives to various groups, whilst not going negative on Bernie.
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
6,449
Minnesota
I think this under-estimates how well Warren has been doing on-the-road. This Time longform article illustrates how well she's connecting with voters through a mixture of policies that people can easily understand help them, and a casual bonhomie that endears her to people. I also think Warren is going to find it easier to push herself as the anti-Bernie as the campaign winds up - specific policy outlines, younger, and a woman. She can push all these differences as positives to various groups, whilst not going negative on Bernie.
As long as Warren continues to connect with people on a very human level, she will do well. I didn't mean to suggest that she has no appeal to voters, but it's very clear that most voters aren't motivated by policy alone, but framing of policy that can galvanize them. I think Warren has incredible potential but we can't disregard the very low level of intellectual curiosity of the average voter and I think it's something that Warren needs to consider when trying to make the case for her candidacy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,399
I expect the next Dem to declare a climate emergency and divert funding to energy and adaptation projects. Congress is a lost cause.

Might as well explore those expanded executive powers Trump’s enjoyed.
Turtleman Mitch will suddenly remember the legislative’s constitutional mandate to act as a check on the executive branch at 12:01 on Inauguration Day.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,064
Denver
Augghghghghghghgh, you're right.

Is there any hope at all for the debates to take the wind out of his sails?
Yes definitely. People looking at polls every single day are probably going to get pretty deflated by nothing changing until July, but July-January is where the major movement will happen. And that's still an 7 month window.
 

DiscountBeds

Alt account
Member
May 6, 2019
109
People who are showing distaste for the idea of Biden as the candidate are going to pivot to supporting him hard if it looks like it’s down to him and Bernie if the other candidates don’t look they’re going to have enough traction to compete with him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,168

Guess its time to say the polls are rigged and the establishment is out to get him.

Dude has lost traction especially with Warren and Harris gaining in the polls.

How are Bernie's donations doing? Are his fans still doing multiple $1 donations to inflate his numbers?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,338

Guess its time to say the polls are rigged and the establishment is out to get him.

Dude has lost traction especially with Warren and Harris gaining in the polls.

How are Bernie's donations doing? Are his fans still doing multiple $1 donations to inflate his numbers?
Should’ve been a layup of a question for Bernie and he goes after polling methodology.

Easy answer is that this entire primary is about highlighting differences between him and Biden, and that his job is to ensure that people understand his policies and philosophies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,786

Guess its time to say the polls are rigged and the establishment is out to get him.

Dude has lost traction especially with Warren and Harris gaining in the polls.

How are Bernie's donations doing? Are his fans still doing multiple $1 donations to inflate his numbers?
Bernie 2016 supporter here. Fuck this shit. This is what happens when you only listen to TYT and Kulinski. No different from Fox.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,048
Daniel B (I think that’s what it was) was an amazing character. Iirc he claimed to have retired from tech work at the age of 30 and gamed it out so he could live off of $5k a year he put in savings.

He posted on NeoGAF from his PS3, but the real story was cooking pizzas on it. He’d buy raw dough, cheese and tomato sauce and literally let it heat up while his PS3 was running.
Lol, I remember the pizzas but not that they were cooked *with* his PS3 hahaha.

I remember him saying he’d “enjoy” a cheap bottle of wine by opening it and having like a shot of it once a day over a couple of weeks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,338

Pete's definitely got a lot of work to do with black voters. But....I think we might need to start questioning some assumptions about how Biden is viewed by the electorate.
 
Nov 14, 2017
5,811
People who are showing distaste for the idea of Biden as the candidate are going to pivot to supporting him hard if it looks like it’s down to him and Bernie if the other candidates don’t look they’re going to have enough traction to compete with him.
Why would progressives choose Biden over Bernie? Aren't their projected strengths (outreach in swing states) the same? And I'd argue that Bernie has less baggage.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,865
Stock market is wack. It’ll be back at record numbers tomorrow after the shorting.
Also I'm sure right before closing today Trump or Mnuchin will make some vague statement about "on-going" discussions and the market will buy it hook line and sinker.

I swear, sometimes it feels like Trump purposely tanks the stock market in the morning, so he and his cronies can buy low and then he manipulates the market again right before closing to recover the majority of the losses as if nothing happened.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,984
Also I'm sure right before closing today Trump or Mnuchin will make some vague statement about "on-going" discussions and the market will buy it hook line and sinker.

I swear, sometimes it feels like Trump purposely tanks the stock market in the morning, so he and his cronies can buy low and then he manipulates the market again right before closing to recover the majority of the losses as if nothing happened.
That's exactly what's happening