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Oct 26, 2017
3,946
Yes, but it always puzzles me when people are all "where are X candidates detailed policies?!" or my personal favourite "What were Hillary's policies?!" as if that matters in the GE.



Genuinely wonder what people think Biden actually stands for lol

Well to that point there was a poll recently that showed big support for Medicare for all among Biden supporters. It was theorized that they were conflating M4A with a public option.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,386
Two weeks ago, California became the first in the US to hook Vanadium batteries into it's grid in san diego. Just these 8 pilot batteries can power 1,000 homes for 4 hours at a time, for 20 years.

http://www.caiso.com/Documents/InnovativeBatteryTechnologyConnectedtoCaliforniaISOPowerGrid.pdf

Meanwhile, trump:


Trump on wind energy: "When the wind doesn't blow you don't watch television that night. Your wife says, 'what the hell did you get me into with this Green New Deal, Charlie?'" The crowd responds with extremely tepid applause.

You have to laugh that his only imagined use of electricity is "watching TV". Not like, keeping the lights on, or cooking your food.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Well to that point there was a poll recently that showed big support for Medicare for all among Biden supporters. It was theorized that they were conflating M4A with a public option.

Probably. People hear M4A and think it's anything from PO to single payer.

Brilliant for campaigning, actually. That way Biden can say he supports M4A as well since he's pro-public option, apparently.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Yes, but it always puzzles me when people are all "where are X candidates detailed policies?!" or my personal favourite "What were Hillary's policies?!" as if that matters in the GE.
Yeah, all Trump had to do was say "BUILD THE WALL" and that was apparently enough for people to go off of.

His healthcare "proposal" was a joke. "We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something better." Okay, with what? "Something better and cheaper." Fucking brilliant! You cracked the code, dumbass. Just make it better. No wonder the Democrats keep losing, they'd never think of that.

That said I do think Clinton should have pushed the basic income plan they toyed with (Alaska for America). That would have been a really bold proposal that would set her apart from both Obama and Sanders. A lot of her proposals were already endorsed by Obama so I can see why they wouldn't feel fresh.
 

Cryoteck

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,028
All this is telling me is that nobody actually gives a shit about detailed policy positions but will ascribe positions to you based on how much they like you. The people who list healthcare and climate as their primary concerns yet would still vote Biden in the primary indicates as much.
Exactly, which is why democrats that run on personal popularity and charisma usually win while those who run hard on policy fail to carry the day in the general.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,505
A majority of registered voters believes President Trump is a successful businessman despite recent news reports about significant losses, according to a new Politico/Morning Consult poll released Wednesday.

About 54 percent of respondents said they believe Trump has been successful in his business ventures, while 36 percent say he's been unsuccessful. Another 10 percent have no opinion.

The results are starkly divided along partisan lines, with 85 percent of Republicans saying Trump is a success while only 30 percent of Democrats agreed. Nearly half, 49 percent, of Independents said Trump is a successful businessman, while 34 percent say he's been unsuccessful.

Republicans will believe anything as long as they are allowed to be racist.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
His healthcare "proposal" was a joke. "We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something better." Okay, with what? "Something better and cheaper." Fucking brilliant! You cracked the code, dumbass. Just make it better. No wonder the Democrats keep losing, they'd never think of that.

I'm still livid about this. Someone pointed out late in the campaign that he didn't have a healthcare platform so they made one up where the main innovation was selling plans across state lines (LOL) and yet the morons believed him when he said it would be cheaper and better than the ACA.
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois




Larry Inman barely won by 349 votes, a special election in Michigan will be called if he resigns, Dems flip that, it'll be from 58-52 to 57-53 in Michigan House
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
Hillary had to campaign against the idea of Pivot Trump which was whatever each individual voter hoped he would be. That was a major problem.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Hillary had to campaign against the idea of Pivot Trump which was whatever each individual voter hoped he would be. That was a major problem.

Yep. Forgot when it was posted but 538 had an article up where the average voter thought Trump was/would be less conservative than he actually was/is (??? Idiots).

It's something he doesn't have going into 2020 and it'll hurt him.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,491




Larry Inman barely won by 349 votes, a special election in Michigan will be called if he resigns, Dems flip that, it'll be from 58-52 to 57-53 in Michigan House


Man

Corruption in every state including my own

Michigan really let me down when we fell towards trump and it continues to let me down. The brainwashing here runs deep but hopefully there is some hope for recovery. Glad this fucker was caught and I hope it cements a message to Michigan Voters that GOP is pretty much synonymous with lawlessness and corruption
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
I'm still livid about this. Someone pointed out late in the campaign that he didn't have a healthcare platform so they made one up where the main innovation was selling plans across state lines (LOL) and yet the morons believed him when he said it would be cheaper and better than the ACA.
I remember when his "plan" was announced and it was basically just

1) repeal ACA
2) sell across state lines
3) fuck you

And half the idiots on GAF just went like "hm yeah seems reasonable" and were the same ones who wouldn't shut the fuck up about Hillary not supporting single-payer.

But then again they also thought Trump secretly supported single-payer and would get all the Republicans to support it once he became president
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
The current news cycle has been terrible for Trump.

120k troops just to posture to Iran and threaten a ground invasion, for reasons, receiving poor reviews
Dow heading towards 25000, the other way.
China tariffs a mess.
European auto tariffs a mess (though they just announced they would "delay" this, heh).
His son front-and-center in front of the "friendly" Senate, which is something they've been desperate to avoid.
Media clips of farmers giving Trump's economic policies and performance poor grades.
"Impeachment" has found its way to the top headlines and polls, even though there is no actual impeachment currently.
Blocking the tax returns has only led to disclosure of his massive losses.
Blocking everything else has led to "collusion" disappearing from the news cycle, but by bringing it back it would make him look even worse.
State-level abortion bills basically pissing everyone off, no matter what side they're on.
Trump's properties continue to decline in favorability - Doral property "on fire" according to Eric.
Courts telling Trump's lawyers that their defense of "whitewater and watergate investigations weren't legitimate" is ridiculous.
Rick Gates continuing to cooperate with no end in sight.
NRA on life support, with internal corruption.
Likely that Mueller didn't even do a counter-intelligence investigation, that it happened separately in FBI, and is on-going.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
So...if I am reading the replies to this plan correctly, the only allowable progressive plan for the US military is to dismantle it

 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,491
The current news cycle has been terrible for Trump.

120k troops just to posture to Iran and threaten a ground invasion, for reasons, receiving poor reviews
Dow heading towards 25000, the other way.
China tariffs a mess.
European auto tariffs a mess (though they just announced they would "delay" this, heh).
His son front-and-center in front of the "friendly" Senate, which is something they've been desperate to avoid.
Media clips of farmers giving Trump's economic policies and performance poor grades.
"Impeachment" has found its way to the top headlines and polls, even though there is no actual impeachment currently.
Blocking the tax returns has only led to disclosure of his massive losses.
Blocking everything else has led to "collusion" disappearing from the news cycle, but by bringing it back it would make him look even worse.
State-level abortion bills basically pissing everyone off, no matter what side they're on.
Trump's properties continue to decline in favorability - Doral property "on fire" according to Eric.
Courts telling Trump's lawyers that their defense of "whitewater and watergate investigations weren't legitimate" is ridiculous.
Rick Gates continuing to cooperate with no end in sight.
NRA on life support, with internal corruption.
Likely that Mueller didn't even do a counter-intelligence investigation, that it happened separately in FBI, and is on-going.

You would think this would be enough on top of two years of the worst policies and leadership America has ever seen

And yet the suffering is far from over and will linger for generations after he is gone

So...if I am reading the replies to this plan correctly, the only allowable progressive plan for the US military is to dismantle it



I fucking love this woman.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Here's an underrated statistic, before election day Trump's highest favorability rating was 39.8% at its highest, going by RCP's rolling average. He's spent most of his presidency more popular than he was at any point before he won the election.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Here's an underrated statistic, before election day Trump's highest favorability rating was 39.8% at its highest, going by RCP's rolling average. He's spent most of his presidency more popular than he was at any point before he won the election.

His net approval was also slightly positive back then.

It sure as fuck isn't now, another underrated statistic.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
His net approval was also slightly positive back then.

It sure as fuck isn't now, another underrated statistic.

Favorables went slightly positive after he won election. Never before. Approval doesn't start until after he becomes president. My statement stands that he's more popular right now than any point before he was elected.

His best net favorable before election was -18% on RCP. It's -10% today
 
Last edited:

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Favorables went slightly positive after he won election. Never before. Approval doesn't start until after he becomes president. My statement stands that he's more popular right now than any point before he was elected.

His best net favorable before election was -18% on RCP. It's -10% today
This is super nitty gritty but "job approval" and "favorability" are two different things. Favorable is what you think about the person.

I'm sure there are a lot of Republicans who think Trump is a piece of shit on a personal level but love them some tax cuts and Muslim bans.

Obama actually had the opposite problem, his favorable ratings consistently tracked over his job approval because even at his worst he still had the image of a respectable family man doing his best.

But in any case the problem Trump's going to have as an incumbent is that... well, he's an incumbent. He got where he is railing against the establishment and those who were a part of it, and scooped up enough swing voters who shared that frustration. Now he is the establishment and he's done all of jack shit for them, and in most cases actively made their situation worse. I won't say he'll definitively lose, but I will say that changes his position a lot from 2016. Can't run as an outsider from the inside.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Favorables went slightly positive after he won election. Never before. Approval doesn't start until after he becomes president. My statement stands that he's more popular right now than any point before he was elected.

His best net favorable before election was -18% on RCP. It's -10% today

I was conflating favourability with approval
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
This is super nitty gritty but "job approval" and "favorability" are two different things. Favorable is what you think about the person.

I'm sure there are a lot of Republicans who think Trump is a piece of shit on a personal level but love them some tax cuts and Muslim bans.

Obama actually had the opposite problem, his favorable ratings consistently tracked over his job approval because even at his worst he still had the image of a respectable family man doing his best.

But in any case the problem Trump's going to have as an incumbent is that... well, he's an incumbent. He got where he is railing against the establishment and those who were a part of it, and scooped up enough swing voters who shared that frustration. Now he is the establishment and he's done all of jack shit for them, and in most cases actively made their situation worse. I won't say he'll definitively lose, but I will say that changes his position a lot from 2016. Can't run as an outsider from the inside.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html#polls

Trump's favorability is still higher than any point before election. And I still think incumbency is a plus for trump, like it has been for every president. I'd watch out for overthinking things to go against history, especially when your conclusion is in line with your bias.

I think he won 2016 mostly by making Hillary less popular than he is, and the bar is now lower for how unpopular he needs to make his 2020 opponent. But it probably won't be as easy making anyone as unpopular as Hillary.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,417
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html#polls

Trump's favorability is still higher than any point before election. And I still think incumbency is a plus for trump, like it has been for every president. I'd watch out for overthinking things to go against history, especially when your conclusion is in line with your bias.

I think he won 2016 mostly by making Hillary less popular than he is, and the bar is now lower for how unpopular he needs to make his 2020 opponent. But it probably won't be as easy making anyone as unpopular as Hillary.

Hillary actually had better favorables in the entire lead up to 2016. The problem is that Trump overwhelmingly won voters who disliked them both.
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,573
I think there'll be 18 months of twists and turns and then people will vote based on how they feel about the economy that week, like usual.
 

LocalA

Member
Oct 29, 2017
111
Man

Corruption in every state including my own

Michigan really let me down when we fell towards trump and it continues to let me down. The brainwashing here runs deep but hopefully there is some hope for recovery. Glad this fucker was caught and I hope it cements a message to Michigan Voters that GOP is pretty much synonymous with lawlessness and corruption


It's not really that shocking to me, we're one of the worst states in regards to transparency and accountability with dark money groups and lobbyists. Last I checked we were in dead last in terms of FOIA too, but that may change this term.

I can go back to 2012 when then state house speaker Jase Bolger tried to create a scheme where a legislator would switch parties from Dem to GOP after the primary so they could gain a seat, until that was uncovered by the media here. Or then Senate Majority leader Randy Richardville stating he'd "never put right to work on the ballot", saying he's too pro-union for that, and then he put it on the floor for a vote in lame duck because he was afraid of being primaried out.

Corruption in our state legislature is kind of a given, and the upwards mobility most state reps and senators get thanks to our term limits make it a pathway for one to sit in a safe district, do all the things lobbyists want and then when you term out, boom, this sweet lobbying job is yours. Fortunately with fairer district maps on the way in the next year(court-ordered) and year following(voters not politicians/Prop 2) will help with this, but term limits and our legislature's inability to act on putting daylight into dark money contributions will continue to put this issue in the forefront.

I'm glad he was caught too, and his narrow victory last year makes this seat a good candidate for a pickup if he resigns, it'd be great if we can narrow the slim GOP majority in the house further before next year.

For all the times throughout my life where this state has let me down politically, last year we did a lot of good. I wouldn't discount that at all, it was a solid clapback and I think it'll continue next year.
 

nature boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,877


White House Counsel Pat A. Cipollone's letter to committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler constitutes a sweeping rejection — not just of Nadler's request for White House records, but of Congress's standing to investigate Trump for possible obstruction of justice. In his letter, Cipollone repeated a claim the White House and Trump's business have begun making: that Congress is not a law enforcement body and does not have a legitimate purpose to investigate the questions it is pursuing.

But Cipollone stopped short of asserting executive privilege. Instead, he told Nadler he would consider a narrowed request if the chairman spells out the legislative purpose and legal support for the information he is seeking.

Just making the court case even more solid for Dems
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,505


Fuck off, losers

Is essentially what the Trump admin is telling Democrats.

While also focusing on Trump's obstruction, it would be nice if house democrats alsp focused on other matters, like climate change and election security and not getting us into nuclear war.
 

Gazele

Member
Oct 25, 2017
973


Fuck off, losers

Is essentially what the Trump admin is telling Democrats.

While also focusing on Trump's obstruction, it would be nice if house democrats alsp focused on other matters, like climate change and election security and not getting us into nuclear war.


They are?

Also, what is the point of show bills? Do you think green new deal is passing the senate and getting signed by trump?
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
I just realized, they're essentially saying congress has no right to oversight, or oversight is only for legislative purposes?

Holy cow
 

lush

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,803
Knoxville, TN
Overturning Roe v Wade is a negative for Republicans electorally, never thought they'd kill off that boogeyman. Lol at the hyperpartisan shit show Republicans have turned our government into. I'm glad SCOTUS being a wholly partisan body is just out there in the open now.

This administration just looks more and more corrupt day after day in regards to obstructing every single attempt at oversight.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459


Fuck off, losers

Is essentially what the Trump admin is telling Democrats.

While also focusing on Trump's obstruction, it would be nice if house democrats alsp focused on other matters, like climate change and election security and not getting us into nuclear war.



Shareholders should demand that their investments obey the law. And sue if a publicly held entity abides by an extralegal and potentially criminal request from a private or public entity.


Hard nope or company pays. I'm already sending letters. Several of the companies are publicly traded.
 
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