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KingK

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Oct 27, 2017
4,847
There is nothing weak or unclear about his response. If that's how you read it, the issue is entirely on your end.
Yeah, this.

Brainchild, you usually are pretty reasonable and I usually agree with you a lot. But I think you've bought into the narrative that Pete is some centrist shill, and are letting that bias color your reading of everything he says and does.

You're definitely not the only one. Even though he's repeatedly disavowed endless wars, said we need a much higher threshold for military use, and spoke out strongly against war or military engagement in Venezuela and Iran, I still saw a poster the other day in some thread saying Buttigieg was "itching to go to war with Iran."
 
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brainchild

Independent Developer
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Nov 25, 2017
9,478
There is nothing weak or unclear about his response. If that's how you read it, the issue is entirely on your end.

Compared to the other candidates expressing their position on abortion, I find his to be one of the weakest. Most of the other candidates have flat out said that a woman has the right to abortion, literally using those words. It's not hard to do.

I read it three times to make sure I wasn't missing something. It's 100% a clear pro choice statement.

It's a pro choice statement that could've been a lot stronger than what it was.

Brainchild, you usually are pretty reasonable and I usually agree with you a lot. But I think you've bought into the narrative that Pete is some centrist shill, and are letting that bias color your reading of everything he says and does.

I don't believe Pete's a centrist at all, but of course, the moment I criticize the guy I obviously either have some kind of agenda or have been duped into a false narrative. Ok.

Let me know when he actually supports codifying Roe vs. Wade into law because he seems to be hesitant to do so.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,942
I mean...the most cynical read I can give Buttigieg's statement is that it's kind of a copout? I mean, kinda.

It's not very full-throated. As a gay black man, there are instances in which I'm being discriminated against due to my blackness and/or my sexuality, and in those cases, I definitely do want elected officials to stick their nose in my business on my behalf with clear and firm positions supporting me. I mean, we all know Buttigieg is pro-choice not because he doesn't view it as his place to have a position, but because he really does believe it's wrong to limit a woman's autonomy. So he should just put on his Elizabeth Warren undies and say that.

There's nothing wrong with his answer, really, but it's wishy washy in a way that's...I dunno, off-brand for him? I remember he got in this race as a Firestarter. Not as someone whose wheels are visibly turning before they answer a question.

But that's me trying to be cynical.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Yeah, Pete just doesn't really speak with a lot of conviction unless he's talking about Jesus - either audibly or through his word choices. That said, there's nothing really wrong with what he's saying.
 

brainchild

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Nov 25, 2017
9,478
Yeah, Pete just doesn't really speak with a lot of conviction unless he's talking about Jesus - either audibly or through his word choices. That said, there's nothing really wrong with what he's saying.

Yeah I suppose I shouldn't have responded in a way that made it seem like he said something bad; I simply wasn't a fan of how he worded it. I do admit that there's technically nothing wrong with what he said.

His sheepish response about codifying Roe vs Wade into law gets a big "eh" from me though.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
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Oct 24, 2017
11,942
His sheepish response about codifying Roe vs Wade into law gets a big "eh" from me though.

I honestly think that's fair. Because Buttigieg is getting on my damn nerves for similar behavior in other areas.

Frankly, his Black outreach is a damn joke. And I'm very close to thinking that his campaign just doesn't give a shit.

And we're in the part of a primary where I'm paying very close attention to what subjects candidates are willing to go "all in" on with pathos, and on which subjects they tip-toe.
 
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dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Beto put out an op-ed in The Houston Chronicle this morning about how he'd stop gun violence. Weird venue, but maybe it'll capture the imaginations of the 60+ crowd.

First, universal background checks without exceptions. Close the boyfriend loophole, the Charleston loophole, the gun show loophole, the online loophole — no more loopholes and no more excuses for refusing to close them. States that have adopted universal background checks have already seen a reduction in gun violence. We know it works. As president, I want to make sure we do the same nationally. Gun owners and non-gun owners agree, Republicans and Democrats agree. So let's transcend the National Rifle Association and the gun lobby — who have purchased complicity and silence for too long — and get this done.

Second, stop selling assault weapons that were designed, engineered, and sold to the United States military for the express purpose of killing people as effectively, as efficiently, in as great a number as possible. They should remain on the battlefield where they belong — because as long as we keep selling them in our communities, they will keep showing up in our schools.

Third, let's adopt red flag laws — not one city or one state at a time, but for this entire country. That will ensure that if someone who owns a gun is a danger to themselves or others, we can use due process to stop them from using that weapon before it's too late.

Fourth, we must treat this crisis with the urgency it deserves. We must demand bold solutions and ensure ambitious plans are on the table and part of the discussion. We will also fully invest in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and research into gun violence so we can not only continue to understand what's happening but begin to address it.

Inslee looking like a dinosaur right now on MSNBC.
 

OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857
bPvrIKB_d.jpg
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
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Nov 25, 2017
9,478
I honestly think that's fair. Because Buttigieg is getting on my damn nerves for similar behavior in other areas.

Frankly, his Black outreach is a damn joke. And I'm very close to thinking that his campaign just doesn't give a shit.

And when in the part of a primary where I'm paying very close attention to what subjects candidates are willing to go "all in" on with pathos, and on which subjects they tip-toe.

I agree. I'm still willing to give him a chance (same with all the candidates really) but I haven't been too thrilled with him lately.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
11,513


It really doesn't help that Al Sharpton is on live TV pushing the idea to white liberals that black people don't like Pete because of inherent homophobia. I don't think that's going to help anything - least of all, Pete's campaign. I hope there's more push-back to that idea before the narrative gains steam.

 
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Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,942
Elizabeth Warren is my girl. I mean, I'm still riding with Harris. But Miss Liz? I'd share a Lyft with her to the club.

Elizabeth Warren has done something that I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a Democrat do this effectively: her campaign has taken her unapologetic wonkishness and made it cool. "I've got a plan for that" is so far the one political meme from this primary season I've seen break out of political circles and hit something sorta mainstream.

Anybody who is still trying to argue that Warren isn't likable has a clear agenda at this point.
 

brainchild

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It really doesn't help that Al Sharpton is on live TV pushing the idea to white liberals that black people don't like Pete because of inherent homophobia. I don't think that's going to help anything. I hope there's more push-back to that idea.



Ok, so here's my take:

I'm black and queer, and I've seen rampant homophobia in my community for far too long. And it's a distinct experience if you're even a remotely effeminate black man in the black community. I definitely felt like, in some respects, I had a harder time expressing myself in my own black community than outside of it, so that is something that needs to be dealt with. At the same time, tying a lack of support for Buttigieg specifically to homophobia is just not a message that needs to be put out there. The country as a whole definitely needs to be more receptive to the idea of an openly gay candidate, but that doesn't specifically need to be Pete.

Elizabeth Warren is my girl. I mean, I'm still riding with Harris. But Miss Liz? I'd share a Lyft with her to the club.

Elizabeth Warren has done something that I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a Democrat do this effectively: her campaign has taken her unapologetic wonkishness and made it cool. "I've got a plan for that" is so far the one political meme from this primary season I've seen break out of political circles and hit something sorta mainstream.

Anybody who is still trying to argue that Warren isn't likable has a clear agenda at this point.

"I have a plan for that" definitely needs to be her campaign's new slogan. I love it.

I have to say that, Harris has been really catching my eye lately. Can't wait for the debates to see how things shift.
 
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Hopfrog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,956
I have been liking Warren more and more lately. I just wonder if anything is going to derail the Biden train.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Warren would be a great President. I just don't have faith is US voters to vote for her over Trump. I think she would get rocked pretty badly in the general election. There's an opening for someone to emerge and beat Biden for the nomination and it's probably either Kamala or Beto.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Firmly in the Beto, Harris, and Warren camp here and would be thrilled to vote for any of them.

Here's a great clip of Harris being fun:



Pure joy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
32,285
Atlanta GA
I'm black and queer, and I've seen rampant homophobia in my community for far too long. And it's a distinct experience if you're even a remotely effeminate black man in the black community. I definitely felt like, in some respects, I had a harder time expressing myself in my own black community than outside of it, so that is something that needs to be dealt with. At the same time, tying a lack of support for Buttigieg specifically to homophobia is just not a message that needs to be put out there. The country as a whole definitely needs to be more receptive to the idea of an openly gay candidate, but that doesn't specifically need to be Pete.

Yeah homophobia in the black community is a different experience than in other cultures, but it's not unique. Homophobia is not unique to any one culture and to say that it's more prevalent in the black community than elsewhere is disingenuous as shit.
 

woodland

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Oct 25, 2017
272
Does anyone know the news site that has a lot of articles on taxes/finance? Forget the name, but had a good amount of info on why taxes are falling, etc, while still being a news site and not a one-off issue site. Feel like it has info or analytica in its name (not Cambridge lol). Maybe Open ____ (not secrets). Also did recent stuff on H&R Block
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,838
I can't wait until "that ain't it, chief" is resigned to the trash piles of history along with open world games and people who don't like the Spice Girls.
 

brainchild

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Nov 25, 2017
9,478
Yeah homophobia in the black community is a different experience than in other cultures, but it's not unique. Homophobia is not unique to any one culture and to say that it's more prevalent in the black community than elsewhere is disingenuous as shit.

Oh it certainly isn't exceptional, but it is something that needs to be addressed in the black community and done in a way that can really speak to black people. Part of it will involve normalization in our culture specifically, which is really lacking. Even something like having more queer representation in hip hop can go a long way in shifting attitudes about LGBTQ+ issues in the black community. Also, most black people in America are religious, so church is another area where things really need to start changing.
 

Avinash117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,602
Oh it certainly isn't exceptional, but it is something that needs to be addressed in the black community and done in a way that can really speak to black people. Part of it will involve normalization in our culture specifically, which is really lacking. Even something like having more queer representation in hip hop can go a long way in shifting attitudes about LGBTQ+ issues in the black community. Also, most black people in America are religious, so church is another area where things really need to start changing.

The religious part is changing on its own somewhat. Every group of young people , including African-Americans are less religious and more accepting of LGBTQ+ people. It is mostly a generational thing Pete has to deal with I think.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Yeah, and I like the Spice Girls but also like open world games. You're causing unnecessary division!
 

Amibguous Cad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
I think the left is really missing a beat on school choice.

So, there are a lot of problems with our school systems, but if I were to pick the biggest one, it would probably be that school funding is tied to property taxes. Obviously, rich districts have higher property values, and therefore better funded schools. Zoomed out to ten thousand feet, this is kind of ludicrous. We dont provision any other public service like this. And it makes sure that the people who need a leg up in Education the most get the rawest deal.

Privatization in education is not really a threat, because our education system as it currently stands replicates most negative aspects of a privatized system in the first place: rich people get better quality service of important quality of goods because they pay more.

But vouchers and charter schools? Those are currently administered at the state level, not at a school district level. It is possible to fund the entire state education system based on progressive taxation and to equalize the funding for every student, instead of consigning poor students to crappy schools.

There should be a privatization-for-equalization grand bargain on the table for education reform, one where there is both genuine choice in parental decisions and where students of all backgrounds are treated equally. But the left has completely abandoned the field, leaving school choice a fetid swampland of conservative social engineering while Democrats try to explain why there are a bunch of pissed off people of color protesting in front of their offices because they oppose a program that promises genuine class mobility.
 

refusi0n1

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Oct 27, 2017
5,900
Been happy to see Warren seem to get more attention but I don't trust the rest of the country at all. There's an interview with her on PBS newshour where they quote a lady from AZ saying something like "I don't want a brainy woman lecturing me" and it made me want to throw my TV out the window.
 

brainchild

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Nov 25, 2017
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chadskin

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Oct 27, 2017
11,013
Been happy to see Warren seem to get more attention but I don't trust the rest of the country at all. There's an interview with her on PBS newshour where they quote a lady from AZ saying something like "I don't want a brainy woman lecturing me" and it made me want to throw my TV out the window.
Hillary lost against a light-on-policies junior Senator from Illinois, then lost against a light-on-policies TV show host. Maybe that lady is on to something!
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,838
I obviously agree with the indisputable fact that in terms of musical ability, dance choreography and instrumentation that no act in 50 years even comes close. But...


https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/7715382/spice-girls-stadium-tour-theresa-may-brexit/
It's because they are missing the true brainpower of the group in Posh Spice.

"And that same year, Victoria, now 44, said the EU had been a "terrible trick on the British people", with Euro bureaucrats "destroying every bit of national identity and individuality".

Oh no.... /phoebe
 

Sky Chief

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,381
It's kind of crazy that if Trump and co had just cooperated and left the investigation alone in the first place then Mueller would have just said there's not enough evidence to prove criminal conspiracy and the media would have moved on from this entire story in a day or two. His obstruction of the investigation is why the investigation is going to stay in the news cycle for his entire first term.

Hell, There wouldn't have been a special counsel in the first place if Trump hadn't fired Comey, or again, he could have gotten away with firing comey if Sessions hadn't perjured himself for no reason.

The amount of self inflicted wounds that Trump and Co had to commit to get to where we are now is dizzying to think about.

Or more like if they would have cooperated Mueller would have found many other crimes...
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Bernie and Warren are going all in on these policy plans!



I am proud to introduce my Thurgood Marshall Plan for A Quality Public Education for All. Read our plan to transform our education system here: https://berniesanders.com/a-thurgood-marshall-plan-for-public-education/



Biden is going to have to make an even more powerful address to some of his issues on race then. Presenting: The Jay Z and Rosa M Parks Blue Collar Black Collar Forgotten States Economic Anxiety Relaxation Act.
 

chadskin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,013
A tired-looking Senator Ted Kennedy was nearing the end of a question-and-answer session with students at Harvard's Institute of Politics when a young man in a white button-down shirt approached the microphone. It was January 2003, President George W. Bush was enjoying high approval ratings, and an ambitious college junior with his own political aspirations wanted to know whether Democrats would ever find their way out of the wilderness.

"Thank you, sir. My name's Peter. I'm a student at the college," said a 21-year-old Pete Buttigieg in a surprising baritone. "It feels like a lot of your colleagues have adopted a posture of being for whatever the Republicans are for, only less: The tax cuts just a smaller one, and the war, just maybe not quite as quick as the Republican war."

As the Lion of the Senate appeared to snap to attention, Buttigieg asked whether the rest of the Democratic Party would ever "sort out what it thinks the meaning of opposition is."
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...se-politics/mtwDwVYz0HMIgEZ01Apd6H/story.html

A young Buttigieg throwing some shade. RIP Ted.
 
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