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Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459


Jim Himes now supports impeachment.

Inching up.


This is a coordinated drip. I don't know if Pelosi's plan is to use it as a ratchet for something else or simply to buy time— or if she's planning to pretend to buckle to the will of the voters as expressed through the drip drip of congressional flips but I've watched interviews with every recent addition to the list and they are all using the same messaging "Nancy supports my decision but believes that more investigation is required"

Problem is that even if she has a date in mind that she's run minutes off the clock to trump's benefit. The only accelerant that could even potentially be on the horizon is a sober play by play from Mueller to the public. Hope Hicks could also have been a bombshell had they not conceded to her private testimony.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,540
As cringey and as problematic as Biden is, I would just have serious worries about the mass appeal of Bernie and Warren in those all important swing states. People in Midwestern and rust belt states love the wishy washy, let's work together, "he tells it like it is" shit that Biden peddles. But will those people view Warren and Bernie as too far left?

Like, would either of them be able to flip back those states that went for Obama and then Trump? Or do we almost need a centrist "white daddy" to have any hope there?
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
Go Go Gideon



This is the guy who proposed that stupid ass constitutional carry bill that was so bad that Dennis Bonnen canned the bill after a pro gun activist went to his home to pressure him to pass it.

This is the guy who also said vaccines were "sorcery" to an actual doctor who founded from Baylor's College of Medicine.

This is a big pick-up opportunity which he won 49-47 in 2018 if Dems can get the state house back.

Cruz also won this seat, so I do wonder if it's a seat you only pick up if you win Texas.
 

SwordsmanofS

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,451
half a million views on twitter for Sara Gideon's announcement in like 2 hours.
What actually matters is how many of those views were from Maine itself. I would caution taking Twitter and Social Media support as support in the ground in one's constituency. (To be clear, I think Collins is done with Trump at the top of the ticket.)

Also, I know some are disappointing that their known candidates aren't running for Senate. But you can find some hidden gems that you wouldn't otherwise if you don't look past the obvious candidates.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,877
As cringey and as problematic as Biden is, I would just have serious worries about the mass appeal of Bernie and Warren in those all important swing states. People in Midwestern and rust belt states love the wishy washy, let's work together, "he tells it like it is" shit that Biden peddles. But will those people view Warren and Bernie as too far left?

Like, would either of them be able to flip back those states that went for Obama and then Trump? Or do we almost need a centrist "white daddy" to have any hope there?

Ask me tomorrow and my opinion will probably change, but right now I'm of the opinion that we need to create more Democrats and break our addiction to the mythical swing voter. Biden and Warren/Bernie have opposite problems, Biden wins the mythical swing voter but can't get out the base, and visa versa for Warren/Bernie. IMO we are better off motivating our voters and giving people a reason to vote Democrat rather than "play it safe" which is like a strategy of playing not to lose. That strategy is what Hillary did and look what happened.
 
OP
OP
Aaron

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Cruz also won this seat, so I do wonder if it's a seat you only pick up if you win Texas.
No better time to find out than now

Also, I know some are disappointing that their known candidates aren't running for Senate. But you can find some hidden gems that you wouldn't otherwise if you don't look past the obvious candidates.
tbh the only real whiff is Bullock if he doesn't run in Montana. For all the belly-aching over Beto and Abrams, while I do think they'd be upgrades we already have decent candidates running in Texas and Georgia.
 

snipe_25

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,168
Problem is that even if she has a date in mind that she's run minutes off the clock to trump's benefit. The only accelerant that could even potentially be on the horizon is a sober play by play from Mueller to the public. Hope Hicks could also have been a bombshell had they not conceded to her private testimony.

I read somewhere (almost guaranteed to be here) that this allowed Trump's WH lawyers to assert a bunch of things that won't hold up in court. So while it didn't get us the publicity we might have wanted, it still helped the cause.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
What actually matters is how many of those views were from Maine itself. I would caution taking Twitter and Social Media support as support in the ground in one's constituency. (To be clear, I think Collins is done with Trump at the top of the ticket.)

Also, I know some are disappointing that their known candidates aren't running for Senate. But you can find some hidden gems that you wouldn't otherwise if you don't look past the obvious candidates.
It actually also matters for her to be able to raise a credible amount of money from everywhere, including outside of Maine, to mount a serious enough campaign. So no, it absolutely does matter.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
No better time to find out than now


tbh the only real whiff is Bullock if he doesn't run in Montana. For all the belly-aching over Beto and Abrams, while I do think they'd be upgrades we already have decent candidates running in Texas and Georgia.
Is there really any hope for Hegar statewide after she just lost her House race last year?
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
But the new tax would only go into effect when they launch a new war in order to pay for what Beto is calling a "Healthcare Trust Fund." If I don't support the war in the first place I'm really not going to be happy about paying an additional (small) tax. It's one thing if we're fighting Nazi's, but our recent war history is not exactly inspiring. I also view it as a means of making going to war easier since they won't have to make a difficult decision by finding the money from current funds. Maybe we should be demanding that they take the money they already have and put it towards healthcare as opposed to taking more money from us and not making any sacrifices. Make them choose healthcare rather than another $300 million jet that can't operate to its full potential because it's exterior coating melts off at super sonic speeds.

Yeah, the law he's proposing is when Congress declares war, there's automatically a trust fund set up and a war tax kicks in on people making over $200k.

Beto's not proposing a new tax right now.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,974
Yeah, the law he's proposing is when Congress declares war, there's automatically a trust fund set up and a war tax kicks in on people making over $200k.

Beto's not proposing a new tax right now.
The tax was on anyone not in the military, ranging from $25 for a very poor family to $1000 for those over $200K, is what I saw.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
When the Census 5-4 decision comes down, blue states should immediately notify the Feds that based on Texas' precedent of mid-decade re-runs of Census counts, that all the states screwed over by the GOP will get their populations correct, whether the Feds like it or not.
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,576
Ask me tomorrow and my opinion will probably change, but right now I'm of the opinion that we need to create more Democrats and break our addiction to the mythical swing voter. Biden and Warren/Bernie have opposite problems, Biden wins the mythical swing voter but can't get out the base, and visa versa for Warren/Bernie. IMO we are better off motivating our voters and giving people a reason to vote Democrat rather than "play it safe" which is like a strategy of playing not to lose. That strategy is what Hillary did and look what happened.

That would be awesome and I'd agree if any reasonable Republican was in the White House. Unfortunately, that isn't the case right now.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
Yeah, the law he's proposing is when Congress declares war, there's automatically a trust fund set up and a war tax kicks in on people making over $200k.

Beto's not proposing a new tax right now.

It's not only >$200K.

It's stupid, just a weird attempt to make it abundantly clear that everyone pays for war.
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996

Deposit proceeds from a "War Tax" into new VHCTFs.
Under Beto's plan, every new VHCTF would be paired with enactment of new war tax. This new tax would serve as a reminder of the incredible sacrifice made by those who serve and their families.

  • This modest tax would be implemented on a progressive basis, with taxpayers who make over $200,000 per year (adjusted gross income) paying $1,000 in a new tax for each war.
  • The tax would be levied on households without current members of the Armed Forces or veterans of the Armed Forces.
Maybe they backpedaled super-fast but I don't see anything on the issues page about a tax on everyone
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,877
That would be awesome and I'd agree if any reasonable Republican was in the White House. Unfortunately, that isn't the case right now.
I hear you, and it's something I grapple with too, but right now I'm of the thinking that with an absolute monster in the White House we can't afford to play it safe. The poles are getting further apart and a compromise candidate does nothing but make no one happy.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
Too bad Booker is the Warren debate. Oh well, assuming he gets more questions about it up front, Biden will get follow-ups the next day.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
It's to increase accountability from congress and people who make money off of war because they have to make a cost decision for their constituents, but I don't see a winning avenue by proposing this. People aren't going to like feeling punished for being protected - especially if they're making less than $30k. Then again, they don't pay me the big bucks, so I don't know where they're going with this. He's previously proposed cutting military spending to fund his other stuff, like his climate plan.

Bernie offered a war tax in 2015, but it was strictly for millionaires to fund military operations.

Edit: No one is paying me, to be clear - I just assume that people who get paid, presumably a lot, to help create stuff like this have a plan.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
When the Census 5-4 decision comes down, blue states should immediately notify the Feds that based on Texas' precedent of mid-decade re-runs of Census counts, that all the states screwed over by the GOP will get their populations correct, whether the Feds like it or not.
Fuck the citizenship question, but this is not what happened in Texas. In 2002, the GOP won unified control of TX for the first time since Reconstruction. They decided to use their newfound power to enact a mid-decade redistricting in 2003, which was unprecedented. Though the previous map had been a Democratic gerrymander (we maintained a 17-15 edge in the US House delegation in 2002 despite losing the popular vote in TX), they still did something dirty and underhanded.

The population counts from the census were never in question, were not rerun, and were not tampered with. They just redrew the lines for the US House radically.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I think it boils down to "they have national aspirations, and also think they'd lose." It's probably why Beto isn't running. He's definitely DOA if he loses two senate races.


This kind of shit makes me think leaders should be drafted.

"Sorry professor Smith, you're drafted to serve as head of the environmental agency for six years based on your experience and knowledge base. Voters picked you from four other qualified candidates.You'll be able to resume your tenure after that."

"Apologies Mr. Jones, your impeccable record, three advanced degrees and people skills and collaborative abilities mean you've been selected unanimously as President."
 

aspiegamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,460
ZzzzzzZzzzZzz...
I like the -theory- of "all Americans sacrificing at least a little for our war efforts" to offer a constant reminder of the human costs, but, man, taxing regular people a single penny for that is freaking ridiculous. Bush's post-9/11 absurdity of "we don't need to at all change if we're going into an endless war; please be sure you continue to keep shopping so the terrorists don't win!" was quite silly, but this is not how you make up for it.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,877
Fuck the citizenship question, but this is not what happened in Texas. In 2002, the GOP won unified control of TX for the first time since Reconstruction. They decided to use their newfound power to enact a mid-decade redistricting in 2003, which was unprecedented. Though the previous map had been a Democratic gerrymander (we maintained a 17-15 edge in the US House delegation in 2002 despite losing the popular vote in TX), they still did something dirty and underhanded.

The population counts from the census were never in question, were not rerun, and were not tampered with. They just redrew the lines for the US House radically.

I wonder if a group of states could band together to run a mid-decade census. I can't imagine the expense, but I think we're living in pretty unprecedented times. I'm not sure what it would accomplish though.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
People already sacrifice for the Government's decisions. It's called regular fucking taxes.

I like Beto, but this just seems stupid.
 

Cryoteck

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,028
Ask me tomorrow and my opinion will probably change, but right now I'm of the opinion that we need to create more Democrats and break our addiction to the mythical swing voter. Biden and Warren/Bernie have opposite problems, Biden wins the mythical swing voter but can't get out the base, and visa versa for Warren/Bernie. IMO we are better off motivating our voters and giving people a reason to vote Democrat rather than "play it safe" which is like a strategy of playing not to lose. That strategy is what Hillary did and look what happened.
In a world where the popular vote means something that would probably be the best strategy. Unfortunately the voting partitioning gives rural areas more power to check urban areas than there should be IMO.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
Fuck the citizenship question, but this is not what happened in Texas. In 2002, the GOP won unified control of TX for the first time since Reconstruction. They decided to use their newfound power to enact a mid-decade redistricting in 2003, which was unprecedented. Though the previous map had been a Democratic gerrymander (we maintained a 17-15 edge in the US House delegation in 2002 despite losing the popular vote in TX), they still did something dirty and underhanded.

The population counts from the census were never in question, were not rerun, and were not tampered with. They just redrew the lines for the US House radically.

Right, the redistricting was just a farce, the Census numbers were mostly correct.

Then the next Dem POTUS overseeing a Census count should add an entire section on gun ownership, trigger lock usage, and just for giggles a question about how many guns are in the household.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
I wonder if a group of states could band together to run a mid-decade census. I can't imagine the expense, but I think we're living in pretty unprecedented times. I'm not sure what it would accomplish though.
The states? No, but I imagine a Democratic president could direct the Census Bureau to do something.

That's why winning in 2020 is so important. Even if the we have the citizenship question affecting the counts, a Democratic president and Congress could mitigate the damage. Ditto having Democrats in control at the state level when redistricting comes along.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,887
As cringey and as problematic as Biden is, I would just have serious worries about the mass appeal of Bernie and Warren in those all important swing states. People in Midwestern and rust belt states love the wishy washy, let's work together, "he tells it like it is" shit that Biden peddles. But will those people view Warren and Bernie as too far left?

Like, would either of them be able to flip back those states that went for Obama and then Trump? Or do we almost need a centrist "white daddy" to have any hope there?
The only Midwest states that matter electorally are PA, MI, and WI, and the only one that *really* went rogue in 2016, relative to polling, was Wisconsin.

I'm reasonably sure PA and MI are swinging back regardless of the candidate. I don't know wtf is up with Wisconsin, but we could also win Iowa and not need WI. Though that would be a little weird.
 

Coolluck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,413
One of Betos big issues when he was in Congress was trying to overhaul the VA as Ft. Bliss consistently ranked near the bottom. This seems to be the a combination of that continued issue, trying to introduce ensure that wars are authorized by Congress and simultaneously holding elected officials responsible for their decisions because of the direct impact on their constituents.

I don't think it would work because too much of this country sucks.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
One of Betos big issues when he was in Congress was trying to overhaul the VA as Ft. Bliss consistently ranked near the bottom. This seems to be the a combination of that continued issue, trying to introduce ensure that wars are authorized by Congress and simultaneously holding elected officials responsible for their decisions because of the direct impact on their constituents.

I don't think it would work because too much of this country sucks.

It just seems silly, as money is never something that the military is lacking. It's all about allocation of war funds to both war and post-war.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,507
She got the raids called off (probably because he'd been told they'd be expensive, unpopular, and impracticable, but he had to save face).

About 300 of the children have also been moved out of that one camp, also.

Kudos to Pelosi, but the "won't you think of the children" quote was a little eyeball rolling.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
About 300 of the children have also been moved out of that one camp, also.

Kudos to Pelosi, but the "won't you think of the children" quote was a little eyeball rolling.
I think that argument is eyeroll-inducing when used in the context of "protecting" children from brain-rotting television and seeing two men marry on Arthur.

When it's about protecting children from literal danger - separation from parents, being put in camps, children who are citizens watching undocumented parents get deported - I don't think it's corny at all. We should be thinking of and defending the most vulnerable members of our society.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
Also, I think Pelosi is making the point that Trump actually wasn't even considering the actual harm of his policy.

Which is pretty normal for him.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822

Maybe they backpedaled super-fast but I don't see anything on the issues page about a tax on everyone

So it's a new tax on 200k+ (non military family) taxpayers. This is definitely completely different than what has been described by the media. I know twitter folks just superficially take the headline, so it was really irresponsible for journalists to make it about a 'tax' on everyone.
 
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