US PoliERA 2019 |OT5| She's got a plan for that, now sashay away

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dlauv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,560
Standing ovation for Beto at Univision and he is decimating the straw poll. Luckily it was a town hall format. Bernie is in second, Warren is in third although they are nearly even, and Castro is last - fyi.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,304
Was this posted or discussed?

Nancy Pelosi, Impeachment, and Places in History via The New Yorker

Pelosi, more surprisingly, is also ignoring the chief political lesson of the Nixon impeachment. The case against authorizing an impeachment inquiry rests in part on polling, which shows that the public over all remains unconvinced that an impeachment inquiry is warranted—though the number in favor keeps growing. Yet had the House Democratic leadership come to the same conclusion in early 1974—when, it needs remembering, public support for impeachment was actually weaker—Nixon would have finished out his second term. The lesson is simple: on matters as serious as a Presidential impeachment, the opposition must lead, not follow, public opinion; it must examine and develop the evidence in plain view, and not permit the White House to persist in shaping perceptions through concealment and lies.
Pelosi, viewing the House and Senate proceedings narrowly, argues that Trump is best contested not with impeachment, which would be divisive, but by replaying the kitchen-table issues that won the Democrats the House majority in 2018—health care, immigration, and climate change. But that strategy would commit the classic military blunder of fighting a war on the basis of the last successful campaign, regardless of the facts and context. It’s one thing to defeat Republicans in congressional races in which Trump’s name does not appear on the ballot. It’s quite another to defeat them when the charismatic Trump heads the ticket and is able to claim that he is exonerated because Democrats did not pursue an impeachment inquiry. In any event, the campaign so far has showcased that Democrats are far from united on a number of kitchen-table issues, from Medicare for All to the Green New Deal.
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
9,143
Thanks for posting this. I just read the whole thing, and concur with it. This was the case and context for impeachment now, even above 1998 Clinton (done even after 5 years of investigating and coming up empty) and 1974 Nixon (done in the face of not-enough public support), and not a dissertation on why Pelosi must go. Pelosi will write her place in history with what she does next.
 

Fork

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,466
Lima, Peru
Bernie is toasted. Socialist politicians/parties are getting hammered in US, UK and Canada.

Go Warren, though.
Socialists getring hammered in Canada? What does that mean, was the NDP ever in a good position?

Labor is leading the polls in the UK and much of Bernie's ideas have been normalized so I dont see how "socialists are being hammered". The second most leftist candidate is second on the polls.

Also like, Bernie isnt a socialist and the NDP isnt either.
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
9,143
Harris on Maddow right now, spending her time trying to explain Trump and the census. We'll see if she's asked about the House.
 

Ogodei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,120
North Jackson High
Can’t they just draw the lines however they want though? Look at the citizen data, draw the lines so it’s most advantageous to them, and say it’s a partisan gerrymander.
Even the worst gerrymanders have to follow the math of "draw a shape around X number of people." The "people" part of that is immutable.

Theoretically you could draw a rotten borough where, say, only 10% of residents were citizens, but in practice that's basically impossible based on the kinds of areas where non-citizens usually live, except at the very small district level.
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
9,143
Harris on Maddow right now, spending her time trying to explain Trump and the census. We'll see if she's asked about the House.
Nope. But she said she is for Medicare for all, which she says we currently have via emergency rooms in that people can't be refused, but of course what happens downstream from that is messy.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,863
Fucking asshole, then fucking DO something

Fuck everyone who is writing a book about how crazy Trump is but never did anything while they had the chance
Ya'll still not saying out loud the game. It's not that Paul Ryan and his GOP "family" are cowards or feckless, it's that their criminals too. Some of very explicitly. I wouldn't doubt that Paul Ryan himself has his hands tied up in the dark money that infested that caucus so much that it probably made Al Capone nod up from hell.

So to protect himself and anyone else this sociopath might fein to care about, he casts Trump as "the other".

Hey guys, it's not us. It's him. He's an imbecile, clearly! It'll be over and back to the normal wheel of shit when he's gone, but hopefully not for another 5 years because we're going to milk this idiot for as long as we can and hard as we can as this decades-nurtured fascist wave continues on past the orange one.

P.S. thank you for all the lifetime judges and concentration camps and tax breaks for the rich.


In other words, fuck Paul Ryan and the rest of those duplicitous criminal shits. As always of course because this is who they've been for a long time now and will persist for a long time after.
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,258

Apparently some legal experts are noting the repeated usage of the term "as a practical matter."
 

JesseEwiak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
931
Socialists getring hammered in Canada? What does that mean, was the NDP ever in a good position?

Labor is leading the polls in the UK and much of Bernie's ideas have been normalized so I dont see how "socialists are being hammered". The second most leftist candidate is second on the polls.

Also like, Bernie isnt a socialist and the NDP isnt either.
Corbyn is losing polls of whom you'd rather be Prime Minister by close to 20 points to Boris Johnson and the "leads" Labour have had in recent weeks are equaled by polls showing them in 4th, behind the Brexit Party and the Lib Dems. That's incredibly unlikely to happen because the Brexit Party has no candidates and the LibDems are the 'backup quarterback' of political parties, but the fact Corbyn f'd up Brexit so badly, and can't have a continuous significant lead over the shambling wreck that is the Tories show how incompetent that Corbyn actually has been, after having a good 2017 campaign.
 

Royalan

Yeah I'm in my bag, but I'm in his too.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
2,755
Luke warm take: Its not just Pelosi. It’s also the lack of House Dems for impeachment.
I still place this on Pelosi, though.

Not just because she's Speaker (and thus the buck stops with her), but because of the Legend of Pelosi. Too many people are trying to have it both ways with her. She's either the ruthless whip who knows how to bend her caucus to her will (which is the Pelosi we saw in the early noughts. The Pelosi we all love to brag about), or she's a total slave to the whims of her caucus, don't you understand she can't do anything because the moderates will be against her! In which case she really is no better than a potted plant. To support Pelosi at this stage is to somehow believe both views are true simultaneously, but you can't do that. You have to pick one.

My entire problem with Pelosi is that we've seen what she looks like when she's trying to make something happen. That is not the Pelosi we're watching today. If you don't believe impeachement, or oversight at all, is the right course of action, then stand up in your big girl heels and make that case. But she won't, and I wager she won't because she knows how unpopular that would be with the portion of her base she wants to pretend has no influence. So she'd rather stand in this no man's land of being completely freaking feckless. And that's just cowardly.

Pelosi has no play right now that doesn't involve us gaming out her moves for her. And that's not the Speaker I signed up for.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,641


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Paul Ryan, the failed V.P. candidate & former Speaker of the House, whose record of achievement was atrocious (except during my first two years as President), ultimately became a long running lame duck failure, leaving his Party in the lurch both as a fundraiser & leader......

....When Mitt chose Paul I told people that’s the end of that Presidential run. He quit Congress because he didn’t know how to Win. They gave me standing O’s in the Great State of Wisconsin, & booed him off the stage. He promised me the Wall, & failed (happening anyway!)......

....He had the Majority & blew it away with his poor leadership and bad timing. Never knew how to go after the Dems like they go after us. Couldn’t get him out of Congress fast enough!

11:10 PM - Jul 11, 2019

April 2018:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Speaker Paul Ryan is a truly good man, and while he will not be seeking re-election, he will leave a legacy of achievement that nobody can question. We are with you Paul!

9:50 AM - Apr 11, 2018
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,798
The Hundred Acre Wood
I still place this on Pelosi, though.

Not just because she's Speaker (and thus the buck stops with her), but because of the Legend of Pelosi. Too many people are trying to have it both ways with her. She's either the ruthless whip who knows how to bend her caucus to her will (which is the Pelosi we saw in the early noughts. The Pelosi we all love to brag about), or she's a total slave to the whims of her caucus, don't you understand she can't do anything because the moderates will be against her! In which case she really is no better than a potted plant. To support Pelosi at this stage is to somehow believe both views are true simultaneously, but you can't do that. You have to pick one.

My entire problem with Pelosi is that we've seen what she looks like when she's trying to make something happen. That is not the Pelosi we're watching today. If you don't believe impeachement, or oversight at all, is the right course of action, then stand up in your big girl heels and make that case. But she won't, and I wager she won't because she knows how unpopular that would be with the portion of her base she wants to pretend has no influence. So she'd rather stand in this no man's land of being completely freaking feckless. And that's just cowardly.

Pelosi has no play right now that doesn't involve us gaming out her moves for her. And that's not the Speaker I signed up for.
With you 100%

Pelosi wanted the gavel
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,339


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Paul Ryan, the failed V.P. candidate & former Speaker of the House, whose record of achievement was atrocious (except during my first two years as President), ultimately became a long running lame duck failure, leaving his Party in the lurch both as a fundraiser & leader......

....When Mitt chose Paul I told people that’s the end of that Presidential run. He quit Congress because he didn’t know how to Win. They gave me standing O’s in the Great State of Wisconsin, & booed him off the stage. He promised me the Wall, & failed (happening anyway!)......

....He had the Majority & blew it away with his poor leadership and bad timing. Never knew how to go after the Dems like they go after us. Couldn’t get him out of Congress fast enough!

11:10 PM - Jul 11, 2019
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,339
I do think it's amusing that Republicans also think they're less effective at going at against the other party as they are attacking themselves... I don't know whether or not to take solace in that.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
5,288
That's quite the highs and lows for Ryan. From the Buffoon's tweets:

Jun 2, 2016 04:12:54 PM So great to have the endorsement and support of Paul Ryan. We will both be working very hard to Make America Great Again!

Oct 16, 2016 03:54:37 PM Paul Ryan, a man who doesn't know how to win (including failed run four years ago), must start focusing on the budget, military, vets etc.

Apr 11, 2018 08:50:23 AM Speaker Paul Ryan is a truly good man, and while he will not be seeking re-election, he will leave a legacy of achievement that nobody can question. We are with you Paul!

Jul 11, 2019 10:10:41 PM Paul Ryan, the failed V.P. candidate & former Speaker of the House, whose record of achievement was atrocious (except during my first two years as President), ultimately became a long running lame duck failure, leaving his Party in the lurch both as a fundraiser & leader......
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
9,143
yeah this is something I hear conservatives say a lot. but as far as I know, emergency rooms will still bill you for their services. They just won't turn you away for not having insurance. which obviously has nothing to do with medicare for all.
Hence how it gets messy after the care is provided. She was using an anecdote from a constituent on the campaign trail, in that everyone basically ends up covering the tab anyway for emergency room visits, when people who are billed (and yeah they are billed) can't pay.

This was in response to a question "If the ACA goes away via the courts and 20 million lose their insurance, how are you going to fix it?" So she's not quite there yet. With the removal of ACA possibly being imminent, not sure any of the candidates are where they need to be, especially to avoid a repeat of ACA broken out of the gate - Rubio sabotaging the insurance backstop, the less-than-stellar web implementation of the national exchange, worst marketing ever "if you like your doctor you can keep them", and the subpar overall rollout by Sebelius.
 

YaBish

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,584
Ended up going to the protest at my local USCIS office today. There weren't that many people, but I felt like I had to do something.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,154
So Lindsey Graham blamed the media for U.K. ambassador resigning. What he meant is that the media only reported on the insults and not the flattery lol:


 
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