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US PoliERA 2019 |OT5| She's got a plan for that, now sashay away
- Thread starter Aaron
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But Joaquin ducked out against Cornyn this year and Julian ducked out against Ted Cruz last year. These are desirable traits?
It was extremely interesting to see the gap in level of comfort between senators vs, well, non-senators, basically.
I still think Thursday will be more interesting because the knives will be out for the two old dudes near the top who have both been riding most on name recognition.
I still think Thursday will be more interesting because the knives will be out for the two old dudes near the top who have both been riding most on name recognition.
I don't think Warren did great, especially in comparison to the hype that she was built up to in this thread. Pre debate, she was supposed to body so many people. She had a strong start and then withered in the second half.
I hope Harris has a complete 2 hour performance tomorrow.
I hope Harris has a complete 2 hour performance tomorrow.
No they aren't. But desirable traits aren't really in abundance right now
We need to do better with sunbelt Latinos than we have been doing and they'd help out a lot there
I'm increasingly convinced that AZ is the hinge of the entire election (along with WI), so, yeah, I agree on this. Kelly being a great canidate on top of McSally being awful are dragging it a few points more competitive than it might otherwise have been.
Warren has to drop the "I'm not gonna attack anyone" nonsense. She needs to shit on people and dick wave again weak positions. There's so many chances she could have gone after people like Tulsi did on Tim Ryan. Go after Cory for being a complete hypocrite for talking about prescription drugs and big pharma when he literally voted with big pharma *multiple times*
It sucks but people respond well to it. She's going to slip and lose her momentum unless she cracks some skulls
So I'm curious, why do people dislike Buttigieg? Some mention the policy thing, but his website seems pretty detailed. He used to be my #1, but I think I've moved to Warren.
the most important thing is I would still vote for anyone on that stage tonight over Trump in a heartbeat.
AZ or WI is likeliest to be the tipping point, yes. We can also make plays in FL, NC, and IA. Winning all of Hillary's states + MI and PA (which seem likely to flip back) + any one of the five I named gets us the presidency.
We had more paths to victory in 2016. We have more paths now despite the fact that Trump won last time. Conversely, his only path seems to be holding onto WI and not losing anything else besides MI and PA. If even one more state - or even NE-02 and ME-02, the two split electoral districts - flips, he's gone.
Like Lee Fang, it's trash.
He starts with the age-old "Identity Politics" critique- that Castro is only pretending to hold liberal social positions in a display of performativity to mask his EVIL NEOLIBERAL SOUL
People who make this argument are pretty much always closet social conservatives until they decide to just out themselves and go full Michael Tracey/Dave Rubin.
And in the quoted section- Free Trade is good (within reason) NAFTA is good and Texas is actively reliant on it, Fossil Fuels come with repping the state, and David Souter was pretty alright. He's complaining about a energy reliant red state guy holding boring mainstream viewpoints. It's ridiculous.
In my experience, the only people who complain about Souter are... right-wingers who expected him to be conservative. I don't think I've ever once seen a liberal person complain about him.
Tried to catch clips of the debate online and every Youtube comment is some batshit insane reply about how stupid every Democrat policy or candidate is. If I took a shot for every "Pocahontas" I saw I'd be dead.
Really feels like the Russian propaganda machine is working in full force, but I can absolutely see how someone who doesn't know any better can get seduced by the comments to following that political line of thinking.
Really feels like the Russian propaganda machine is working in full force, but I can absolutely see how someone who doesn't know any better can get seduced by the comments to following that political line of thinking.
Wait until it's Castro and Bernie on the same stage. lol Castro pretty much started his campaign by implying Bernie is racist for not supporting reparations. He's going to go super hard on Bernie and Bernie won't stay as calm as Beto did. Castro is lowkey going to turn this primary into a shitshow.
I listened to the first half of the debate on XM radio and caught highlights of the rest.
My poor boy Beto. For all the criticism, he actually has some substance when it comes to his proposed plans. But Beto is a nice guy and doesn't do bloodsports. He got flustered when he was attacked disingenuously. Also Beto speaks in anecdotes which doesn't work in debate formats when you actually have to answer specific questions in a time limit.
That said, being able to mix it up and throw bombs on the debate stage is no real indication of leadership and ideas. Despite all the Castro fireworks and attention-seeking, I'll still take Beto's immigration plan instead. If the media actually focuses on the substance of the exchange rather than the style, I think the whole thing would come out more as a push. Beto definitely needs to learn how to better absorb attacks, but I think he had the high ground on the substance.
I'm also old enough to remember Obama had some mediocre / poor initial debate performances in the '08 Dem primary. But with each debate, Obama gradually got his footing. By the time he faced off McCain in the general, he ran circles around him in the debates.
My poor boy Beto. For all the criticism, he actually has some substance when it comes to his proposed plans. But Beto is a nice guy and doesn't do bloodsports. He got flustered when he was attacked disingenuously. Also Beto speaks in anecdotes which doesn't work in debate formats when you actually have to answer specific questions in a time limit.
That said, being able to mix it up and throw bombs on the debate stage is no real indication of leadership and ideas. Despite all the Castro fireworks and attention-seeking, I'll still take Beto's immigration plan instead. If the media actually focuses on the substance of the exchange rather than the style, I think the whole thing would come out more as a push. Beto definitely needs to learn how to better absorb attacks, but I think he had the high ground on the substance.
I'm also old enough to remember Obama had some mediocre / poor initial debate performances in the '08 Dem primary. But with each debate, Obama gradually got his footing. By the time he faced off McCain in the general, he ran circles around him in the debates.
The actual moments of in-fighting were, what, maybe 10 minutes out of a total of 2 hours?
And even at their most disingenuous it was about fairly minute differences in actual policy rather than ideological divides (Ryan, gabbard, and Delaney notwithstanding but who's listening to that?).
And even at their most disingenuous it was about fairly minute differences in actual policy rather than ideological divides (Ryan, gabbard, and Delaney notwithstanding but who's listening to that?).
Couldn't watch the debate live and just caught up with it now. General thoughts:
- Warren was no surprise a very strong voice with great answers for almost every question. I didn't like how she avoided the question of gun reclamation. But that's more Chuck Todd being the insufferable dildo that he is. Otherwise, she was fantastic.
- I was very impressed by Castro's performance. I haven't heard much from him at all so far this race, but he really brought it tonight and I want to hear more from him. A lot more. Hopefully he stays in this race for a good while.
- Fuckin' LOL at Delaney constantly getting shafted by the moderators repeatedly. They did him dirty, but I'm not particularly upset about it. Nobody gives a fuck about his "let's work with Republicans to pass shitty legislation" platform anyway. Garbage answers.
- Also big fuckin' LOL at how badly Ryan bombed, especially in the second half. Could not believe it when he hyped up staying in Afghanistan to the point where he got clowned on hard by Gabbard. Also eyeroll-inducing how he insisted on turning every policy question into an Ohio auto industry question. Congrats to all of you who had "ranting about coastal elites" on your bingo card. Come get your man, Ohio.
- Speaking of Gabbard, I'm not going to forget about her shitty past comments on the LGBTQ community, but I'm willing to accept her answer tonight at face value that she's legitimately evolved on the issue. For now. Mostly because I too come from a socially conservative family and evolved as an adult. What I'm still not willing to accept though is her terrible stances on Syria, Modi, etc. And she needs more substantial policy behind her answers. She seems to just have bullet points.
- O'Rourke had a few good answers, but overall came off as a wet noodle here. He doesn't do well in this setting at all. He's much better on the stump. Great answer on the impeachment question though.
- De Blasio did alright. Really made me uncomfortable though when he went on the tangent about the police. Really tone-deaf to hype up his police reform record when it seems like there's a new terrible story about the NYPD in the news cycle every week. There's nothing to be proud of when it comes to how law enforcement works in America. It was pretty rude of him to constantly interrupt other candidates too.
- Booker had a solid performance. I don't think tonight moved the needle much for me on him though. Honestly, he comes off as the fabled "generic Democrat" to me that we see on polling. He supports all the popular party positions and has a few legislative wins under his belt. He'd be a fine president, but not very exciting. Definitely respect him for repeatedly bringing up the importance of the Senate though.
- Inslee is a good candidate for his aggression on climate action and great record on executive experience, but he really didn't get much of a spotlight tonight. Part of it was moderators not giving him much attention, but also maybe it's the setting. He did bring down the house though with his answer to "what is the biggest threat to the US," so props for that.
- Even as someone from the plains, Klobuchar's aw shucks homegrown girl persona does nothing for me. Also she throws staplers at her staff, which of course is immediately disqualifying.
Hear, hear. The sooner him and Bernie flame out the better. Of course Bernie won't quit when that happens because he's gotta Bernie.
Long Warren Post Debate Interview: Link Here
Warren - was very strong in the first half. Seemed like the moderators just kinda recognized this and decided to let others squabble, was frustrating they called on everyone BUT her for the immigration question and foreign policy question.
There was no reason for her to interrupt anyone or punch down. This is the first debate and her focus is on messaging and continuing to raise her favorables. No one attacked her and she stayed above the kids fray.
Strong closing statement. If Bernie and Biden explode tonight and hurt each other I think think has gone as well as you could hope for her for this first round.
Castro - Surprised me. I think he is definitely jockeying for something and thought spanking Beto was how he'd get some traction.
Beto - He's a nice guy, but wow what a deflating balloon.
Booker - Got a lot of time in, did well came across as a generic Dem no offenses here.
Everyone else - Go away.
Warren - was very strong in the first half. Seemed like the moderators just kinda recognized this and decided to let others squabble, was frustrating they called on everyone BUT her for the immigration question and foreign policy question.
There was no reason for her to interrupt anyone or punch down. This is the first debate and her focus is on messaging and continuing to raise her favorables. No one attacked her and she stayed above the kids fray.
Strong closing statement. If Bernie and Biden explode tonight and hurt each other I think think has gone as well as you could hope for her for this first round.
Castro - Surprised me. I think he is definitely jockeying for something and thought spanking Beto was how he'd get some traction.
Beto - He's a nice guy, but wow what a deflating balloon.
Booker - Got a lot of time in, did well came across as a generic Dem no offenses here.
Everyone else - Go away.
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I 100% agree. I'm surprised she wasn't as assertive as everyone was expecting. If she mixes it up with the other top candidates and doesn't speak up, I hate to say it but Bernie with his brutish demeanor will have a field day with her.
When he's giving his stump answers unchallenged he's good. He's clearly got his positions and his anecdotes reinforcing them honed. But unfortunately for him, the more memorable parts of his night were wilting against Castro and especially de Blasio. He had no direct answer to Castro; he had no answer period to de Blasio. That stuff makes him look weak.
I'm amazed no one took shots at Biden tbh
Otherwise it was Warren's night, it's still early days and there's still a ton of candidates, no one cares about what Ryan or Delaney thinks about the Mueller report
Hopefully tonight someone brings Biden down. Don't think there's going to be any big shift in the polls from yesterday's debate.
Poor Beto. He's toast and he knows it, but many here wanted him to run after his Senate defeat, he did have the momentum but he just took too long and executed poorly. I hope he understands this and ends his campaign gracefully. Castro's angling for an administration job (don't think he's VP tier level)
And I can't believe speaking Spanish for a brief moment is somehow worthy of discussion
Otherwise it was Warren's night, it's still early days and there's still a ton of candidates, no one cares about what Ryan or Delaney thinks about the Mueller report
Hopefully tonight someone brings Biden down. Don't think there's going to be any big shift in the polls from yesterday's debate.
Poor Beto. He's toast and he knows it, but many here wanted him to run after his Senate defeat, he did have the momentum but he just took too long and executed poorly. I hope he understands this and ends his campaign gracefully. Castro's angling for an administration job (don't think he's VP tier level)
And I can't believe speaking Spanish for a brief moment is somehow worthy of discussion
SHOCKING
FUCKING
NEWS
As per my norm, I don't watch debates, just heavily digest the coverage afterwards. Mainly because like most here, I already know the candidates quite well. I don't expect many PoliEra posters are watching the debates to decide who to support, put it that way.
So for me, my interest is in how do candidates go over with the general population. What are the news media focusing on? Because more people will see the few clips in the press coverage than the debate itself. Looks like this was good for Warren and Castro, and bad for Booker and O'Rourke (and interesting that they got the most mic time to boot!).
Tonight I hope Harris comes out swinging against Biden. She's my candidate right now, and if she wants to have a hope of winning, she needs to make big gains tonight in press coverage. I know it's hoping for a lot, but any story that ends with Harris top of the ticket features this first debate as a key scene. So hopefully she can write that future for herself.
If she can't make the kind of gains necessary, I hope next time Warren can go head to head with Biden because that will win her all the more support.
As for Sanders, I'm not worried really. If he wins, he'll be fine. Way preferable to Biden. But I don't think he has the support without soaking up all the anti Clinton voters. We know who sexist democrats are going to support, obviously, and it's not Sanders. Yeah, the purity test supporters are still annoying as all hell, but it isn't 2015/2016.
I don't think he'll win, and if he does, he'll have proven himself to be a better candidate than I think he is. I'll gladly support him.
But first, I think I want to see Biden's lead erased and this turning into the proving ground I think it really should be.
So for me, my interest is in how do candidates go over with the general population. What are the news media focusing on? Because more people will see the few clips in the press coverage than the debate itself. Looks like this was good for Warren and Castro, and bad for Booker and O'Rourke (and interesting that they got the most mic time to boot!).
Tonight I hope Harris comes out swinging against Biden. She's my candidate right now, and if she wants to have a hope of winning, she needs to make big gains tonight in press coverage. I know it's hoping for a lot, but any story that ends with Harris top of the ticket features this first debate as a key scene. So hopefully she can write that future for herself.
If she can't make the kind of gains necessary, I hope next time Warren can go head to head with Biden because that will win her all the more support.
As for Sanders, I'm not worried really. If he wins, he'll be fine. Way preferable to Biden. But I don't think he has the support without soaking up all the anti Clinton voters. We know who sexist democrats are going to support, obviously, and it's not Sanders. Yeah, the purity test supporters are still annoying as all hell, but it isn't 2015/2016.
I don't think he'll win, and if he does, he'll have proven himself to be a better candidate than I think he is. I'll gladly support him.
But first, I think I want to see Biden's lead erased and this turning into the proving ground I think it really should be.
Those clips will sink Castro before the 2nd debate, though his mention of the law and the clips will provide more of a spotlight on the issue. Beto's not completely done yet, and it's possible tonight will retroactively make a few of last night's candidates look a little better afterwards.
OK I was on team Vestager, but Cheeto hates her so now I'm more pro-Vestager (let's hope the EU Council and Parliament agree)
Good news is she's staying as EU Commissioner although not sure if it's Competition:
Good news is she's staying as EU Commissioner although not sure if it's Competition:
~~~Holy Shit~~~
Watch it you fools. A star is born.
This deserves it's own thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/sp...inst-modi-and-rising-fascism-in-india.125900/
Watch it you fools. A star is born.
This deserves it's own thread: https://www.resetera.com/threads/sp...inst-modi-and-rising-fascism-in-india.125900/
Great. Hope Macron gets her into the job.
But then we'll probably have that pro-austerity German prick as new head of the Euro Central Bank which will doom us so... I'd rather not.
The last two seem total non-starters.
Democratic strategists already talking about how Warren's comment about eliminating private insurance would be a huge problem in a general election.
Not a surprise in the least.
Also, as for Castro, couldn't he just say he changed positions over the last decade? People do change over time depending on the situation.
Not a surprise in the least.
Also, as for Castro, couldn't he just say he changed positions over the last decade? People do change over time depending on the situation.
I'm not sure why's she's hammering that point so hard, even in Belgium we have private insurance that covers extras like hospitalisation costs, and we have extensive public healthcare coverage.
It's an unneeded albatross. Start with expanding Medicare to all instead of pushing positions that you'll never win with.
Asking here because I'm having trouble finding it elsewhere, but is there going to be any debate between Weld and Trump in the future? I know it's pointless but still was curious.
I think she's afraid of being exposed on her left flank, especially since she is Sander's primary target right now. Language like that though is dangerous in the general. IMO a highly competitive public option is the most agreeable and effective stance and still leaves the door open for more liberal solutions if necessary.
Fair, but doesn't she appear to be pulling from Biden's base as well? Doubt they're entirely for the idea, and she's not going to win over the general public like this.
It's not pointless and for that reason the RNC will never let that happen. Trump was treated with kid gloves in the primary debates since everyone expected him to bow out and crown the winning candidate with his endorsement. A republican debating him on national television with nothing to lose would drag his ass over the coals and cause real damage from the (non-crazy) right. Even if Trump won the debates he wouldn't have much to gain within his own party.
Depends on what the EPP puts forward to replace Webber (if they do). Macron is trying to put some distance to Vestager so she's not his candidate
Macron said he wants 2 women and 2 men for the 4 positions and it's hard to see a women leading the ECB so Vestager should get the Commission despite what happened last week,
I'm assuming Warren wants everyone covered by the public option and whoever can afford it can get private insurance? Which is what pretty much every country has?
I definitely worry about that in the general with how the media is. Polling does show people don't want to be forced onto government-ran insurance.
If you lose 10% of swing/indies this gets waaaaay too close for comfort against Trump.
There's some other points about immigration reform/gun safety/access to abortion that we need to be *very* careful about if we want to take the Senate.
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