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Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
1) They can't. They have to use total population to apportion districts. If they tried to use only the citizen population, it'd get to court so fast their heads would spin. SCOTUS ruled as recently as 2016 that non-citizen population must be included in legislative district totals. That part is a bluff. Including the question itself was always just a play to depress Hispanics' response rates. They still would've had to count non-citizens (people who answered no to the question) in the totals. They were just hoping people wouldn't respond at all.

Can't they just draw the lines however they want though? Look at the citizen data, draw the lines so it's most advantageous to them, and say it's a partisan gerrymander.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Can't they just draw the lines however they want though? Look at the citizen data, draw the lines so it's most advantageous to them, and say it's a partisan gerrymander.
You're jumping a little bit ahead. The Census Bureau uses the data to determine which areas have grown and to apportion the House seats. If the formula they use determines that, say, Texas gets 38 districts, and in the state itself, San Antonio has grown massively, the TX legislature had to draw 38 districts of roughly equal population that reflect the growth patterns in the state. They use the numbers the federal government gives them from the census, and if the census doesn't have citizenship data... they can't use it. If they tried to dilute Hispanic voting power anyway, it could be found to be a racial gerrymander, which this Court has struck down.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,490
Cape Cod, MA
You're jumping a little bit ahead. The Census Bureau uses the data to determine which areas have grown and to apportion the House seats. If the formula they use determines that, say, Texas gets 38 districts, and in the state itself, San Antonio has grown massively, the TX legislature had to draw 38 districts of roughly equal population that reflect the growth patterns in the state. They use the numbers the federal government gives them from the census, and if the census doesn't have citizenship data... they can't use it. If they tried to dilute Hispanic voting power anyway, it could be found to be a racial gerrymander, which this Court has struck down.
Thank you. Exactly.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,911
Check. Mate.

Edit: This appears to be a legitimate tweet


Yeah he actually said that about free speech.

"To me free speech is not when you see something good and then you purposely write bad. To me that's very dangerous speech, and you become angry at it. But that's not free speech."

Imagine if Obama said that about free speech, while also "joking" about staying more than 2 terms, and apparently seriously considering ignoring the Supreme Court. Just imagine.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
You're jumping a little bit ahead. The Census Bureau uses the data to determine which areas have grown and to apportion the House seats. If the formula they use determines that, say, Texas gets 38 districts, and in the state itself, San Antonio has grown massively, the TX legislature had to draw 38 districts of roughly equal population that reflect the growth patterns in the state. They use the numbers the federal government gives them from the census, and if the census doesn't have citizenship data... they can't use it. If they tried to dilute Hispanic voting power anyway, it could be found to be a racial gerrymander, which this Court has struck down.
When they get sued for them being racist gerrymanders, they won't be able to prove otherwise with no paper trail.

I hope you guys are right, because people on the right (bill Barr, for one) have thought about this and they clearly have a plan in mind.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
I hope you guys are right, because people on the right (bill Barr, for one) have thought about this and they clearly have a plan in mind.
I mean, they had a plan to get the question on the census.

Remember also that if next year goes according to plan, by the time the states receive the data in 2021, Trump and Barr will be gone.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,714
Not Very Online enough. You have to read more shitty twitter, people! (Or following Will Sommer is a less brain rotting way).


I'm seriously embarrassed of our country right now.


I deal with enough toxic bullshit in any given day, I'm fine not knowing lol
 

shadow_shogun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,727
@rebeccaballhaus
Trump says he will direct federal agencies to provide the Commerce Dept with records on the # of citizens and non-citizens.

Ironically, Census Bureau staffers told Ross in *early 2018* that they could do that instead of a citizenship Q on the census.https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-to-hold-news-conference-on-census-citizenship-question-11562845502?mod=hp_lead_pos1 …
17:56 - 11 Jul 2019
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,584


Book is gonna end up being something stupid like "I'm telling you, he didn't know anything about government...but then he came in there with all his business expertise and really shook things up, drained the swamp, and made me proud to be an American. MAGA KAG 2020."
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,541
The crazy thing about Warren's rise is that she's basically doing it without huge press coverage.

I love Harris but I don't think her attacks on Biden are doing what they need to with black voters. If she cant get them from Biden, she cannot win.

Curious to see what would happen if Warren and Biden were the final two.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
The crazy thing about Warren's rise is that she's basically doing it without huge press coverage.

I love Harris but I don't think her attacks on Biden are doing what they need to with black voters. If she cant get them from Biden, she cannot win.

Curious to see what would happen if Warren and Biden were the final two.
I think the trick for Harris right now is to get attention. Once her profile is raised enough, then black voters will look into her and that's make or break time. This is Phase 1.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,714
I think the trick for Harris right now is to get attention. Once her profile is raised enough, then black voters will look into her and that's make or break time. This is Phase 1.
She might have the same issue Obama had early on and need to win an early state before they jump on en-mass.
 

Zeno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,150
I imagine there's a lot of people who have Warren or Harris as their #2 choice if the other drops out.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
The crazy thing about Warren's rise is that she's basically doing it without huge press coverage.

I love Harris but I don't think her attacks on Biden are doing what they need to with black voters. If she cant get them from Biden, she cannot win.

Curious to see what would happen if Warren and Biden were the final two.

Warren's had nothing but positive press coverage for weeks.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
"I'm not right wing, I say nice things about tulsi Gabbard," is the funniest excuse.

So does david duke, guy.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
1) They can't. They have to use total population to apportion districts. If they tried to use only the citizen population, it'd get to court so fast their heads would spin. SCOTUS ruled as recently as 2016 that non-citizen population must be included in legislative district totals. That part is a bluff. Including the question itself was always just a play to depress Hispanics' response rates. They still would've had to count non-citizens (people who answered no to the question) in the totals. They were just hoping people wouldn't respond at all.

2) They could, however, use citizenship data from other sources besides the census forms to go after people - bad in its own way but not technically related to apportionment.

3) Trump won't receive the data until December 2020 (standard turnover rate from the census), so with any luck he'll be a lame duck with only weeks left and they won't be able to do a damn thing about apportionment even if it's destined to fail in court. It makes winning next year that much more important.

Right, counting citizens vs non-citizens was never the point. This data is not of much use to the administration (which is why nobody requested it until ordered to for justification). The point was only ever to intimidate people from completing the census
 
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Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,541
I took a different job and bought a house this year so things are super tight, but I just made my first ever political donation. Feels good.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,908
The crazy thing about Warren's rise is that she's basically doing it without huge press coverage.

I love Harris but I don't think her attacks on Biden are doing what they need to with black voters. If she cant get them from Biden, she cannot win.

Curious to see what would happen if Warren and Biden were the final two.

This interview won't air until tomorrow. Until then the last time Harris has gone after Biden on a Black issue was the debates, and it did have an effect on his poll numbers.

But that's besides the point. While love for "Uncle Joe" definitely remains from him being Obama's VP, it is still the case that Black voters are an incredibly pessimistic voting block. Biden's main advantage with that block is his perceived electability. For better or worse, Black voters don't give a shit about the bullshit or pageantry. Black voters want someone who can win. Break that perception, and he will lose Black voters almost overnight.

Harris put a crack in him, and we saw what that alone did.

EDIT: Oops, quoted the wrong person.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
I'm disappointed there's no Switch "Pro" since I almost never play it undocked. Nintendo, I wanted to give you my money.
Nintendo is afraid of raw power.

---

People are suspecting Roberts pulled another ACA with the census case and switched at the last minute.



The question, I suppose it what did it. I suspect it was the hard drive. Which means his opinion is about the unconvincing lie by Ross is just cover.

Edit: This
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
People are suspecting Roberts pulled another ACA with the census case and switched at the last minute.
I said as much when they announced the opinion. RBG sent up signal flares about the census case early in June, leading everyone to believe Roberts would rule in the administration's favor. He pretty obviously switched.
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,781
I said as much when they announced the opinion. RBG sent up signal flares about the census case early in June, leading everyone to believe Roberts would rule in the administration's favor. He pretty obviously switched.

Roberts knows the only thing keeping his Chief Justice reign from being a bunch of 6-5 decisions where he writes for the minority is either RBG kicking the bucket or making sure the other nuts on the Court don't go too far off the rails.

That's why I think any abortion case will be narrow enough to basically let red states do almost anything they want, possibly overruling the AL & LA laws on technical grounds, but not actually overruling Roe.
 
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