US PoliEra 2019 |OT6| Have You Hurd About These GOP Retirements?

Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,361
Yeah, I’m just thinking now about one of Walt Disney’s kids who gave an interview recently where she talked about all the charity work she’s done and money she’s given away, and how she tries to reconcile that with the fact that she still has a ton of money. She said part of her wanted to give it all away right when she got it, but if she had she would have given less money than she has now after investing it and making more money.

Like yeah, the fact that people exist who are that ungodly rich is a problem, but the people themselves? I’m not about to say “poor them” because obviously they’re not, but if they do good things with their money, support liberal causes etc what else can they do? Give away everything until they’re penniless? For most Americans there’s always some degree of selfishness in what money and property we hold onto.
Hell, the Gates Foundation is required to spend all of its resources (currently at ~50 billion) within twenty years of Bill and Melinda's deaths, but I guess they're still bad people because they have money in the bank today.
 

dlauv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,857
Thats good. Its not enough.

Giving $30 million when you are a billionaire is the bare minimum tho.
Short-sighted. Plenty spend more than $30 million. Some spend billions more than they have in the bank over a life-time because of how money makes money. That's likely more good done, depending on the investment, than you'll ever do over several lifetimes. The much bigger problem than "billionaires not spending 'enough' to help others" is how wealth begets wealth and how inaccessible that is to others.
 

Aaron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,463
I'm expecting everyone to empty out their bank accounts into the streets now!
Gotta love the irony of people complaining about billionaires not giving enough money away on a video game enthusiast forum.

Maybe instead of buying your third limited edition Nintendo Switch you should give $300 to your local soup kitchen hmmmmm? Guess you're not a good person.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,846
Nobody can earn a billion dollars. You become a billionaire by exploiting others. I agree that a bank account balance doesn't make someone good or bad... unless they're a billionaire.
It's amazing that for so many people "Gains Through Trade" isn't a concept and in its place "It's not enough that I should succeed, others must fail" is in its place. The economy is not a zero-sum game. The "billionaires are inherently evil" crap is petty jealousy attempting to be laundered via moralizing.

We should absolutely be taxing billionaires more, increasing inheritance taxes and social safety nets so that we reward people less simply for being born to the right parents, and doing all sorts of other things to help level the playing field. That doesn't mean that it's unethical to make good business investments - we just need to have the nation as a whole getting a bigger share of the rewards for those good business investments.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,624
Saying billionaires should exist goes right along with saying that death from preventable starvation and disease should exist.

It's just two sides of the same coin.

Uncap FICA and bring back the 90% top marginal tax rate.

Tax (non retirement) capital gains as income.

EVERY BILLIONAIRE IS A POLICY FAILURE
 

dlauv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,857
Finally, some pushback. I was getting so sick of the blue state dem narrative. Like, even if he (very likely) doesn't win the primary, this conversation is toxic.

 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,458
London
Saying billionaires should exist goes right along with saying that death from preventable starvation and disease should exist.

It's just two sides of the same coin.

Uncap FICA and bring back the 90% top marginal tax rate.

Tax (non retirement) capital gains as income.

EVERY BILLIONAIRE IS A POLICY FAILURE
Capital gains on assets held for less than a year are taxed as income.

Amazingly in Belgium we don’t have *any* tax on capital gains
 

Commit Completely

Alt account
Banned
Aug 6, 2019
18
Gotta love the irony of people complaining about billionaires not giving enough money away on a video game enthusiast forum.

Maybe instead of buying your third limited edition Nintendo Switch you should give $300 to your local soup kitchen hmmmmm? Guess you're not a good person.
Oh wow completely earnestly doing the “you complain about society and yet you participate in it interesting” meme. Amazing.
 

Aaron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,463
Finally, some pushback. I was getting so sick of the blue state dem narrative. Like, even if he (very likely) doesn't win the primary, this conversation is toxic.

She's got a point in the sense that Beto at the top of the ticket would likely help whoever's running for Senate more than just say, Biden running at the top and Beto downballot, I think the problem is more that Beto's not gaining any traction in the primary. Like "But if Beto wins the primary he helps our chances" right but that's not happening.

All the same, if the Texas Democratic Party wants to truly build on last year's gains they can't just rely on Beto making a run for every competitive seat in the state. Same with Georgia and Abrams. Democrats need to support Hegar and Tomlinson with everything they've got.

Oh wow completely earnestly doing the “you complain about society and yet you participate in it interesting” meme. Amazing.
lol? it's the logical extreme of the "being a billionaire is immoral" argument.
 

dlauv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,857
She's got a point in the sense that Beto at the top of the ticket would likely help whoever's running for Senate more than just say, Biden running at the top and Beto downballot, I think the problem is more that Beto's not gaining any traction in the primary. Like "But if Beto wins the primary he helps our chances" right but that's not happening.
It's self-fulfilling prophecy. The senate talk was a kneecap out the gate and likely GOP poison. It's also a kneecap to any potential momentum.
 

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Finally, some pushback. I was getting so sick of the blue state dem narrative. Like, even if he (very likely) doesn't win the primary, this conversation is toxic.

Good to see. I'm looking forward to seeing how Beto re-enters the campaign after the shooting. I'm hoping he brings the fire that we saw in the very early days afterwards.
 

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,658
I didn't mean to make this a "eat the rich or else" thing; I'm just saying it's messed up if you become a billionaire via exploitation (see the McMahons or the Walmart family), and if you have starving people but also millionaires and billionaires, your country's got a whole bunch of policy problems.

That's all.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,846
Saying billionaires should exist goes right along with saying that death from preventable starvation and disease should exist.

It's just two sides of the same coin.

Uncap FICA and bring back the 90% top marginal tax rate.

Tax (non retirement) capital gains as income.

EVERY BILLIONAIRE IS A POLICY FAILURE
You can still get people becoming Billionaires with a 90% top marginal rate! Like, tha

It is absolutely not two side of the same coin- the ability of people who are good at investing, or inventing, or expanding business to earn theoretically uncapped rewards while still powering the economic engines of the country at the same time has absolutely jack shit to do with believing that preventable disease and starvation should exist. The latter problems are primarily problems of governance and don't get done primarily due to voters being unwilling to fund those programs because they're shitty people.
Oh wow completely earnestly doing the “you complain about society and yet you participate in it interesting” meme. Amazing.
Why the hell are so many alts getting through with instant access? Seriously, this shit is ridiculous.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,318
It’s not about Billionaires giving enough.
Philanthropy is power.

It’s about rich people not being taxed enough. They work to assuage their own pet issues in selfish ways while maintaining cut-throat monopolies in their prime years.

The philanthropy is legacy building on what should be the public’s dime. Whatever is left in inheritance should be taxed highly to finance government programs.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,846
Our tax policy not being as aggressive as it could be =/= insane tax policy.

You realize a "sane" tax policy would require EVERYONE paying more in taxes, right?
To add onto this- every state that has looked into doing single payer has abandoned it because of the massive tax increase on the middle class it'd require.

Because they'd be voted out of office nearly immediately if they went for it.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
621
Like, my husband and I are fairly well off. We earn multiples of the median income in our area. We also own a quarter of the company he runs. We absolutely should pay more in taxes. No question in my mind. We aren't even that wealthy, but we should definitely be required to pay more. So should millionaires. So should billionaires. I don' think anyone disputes that. The idea, though, that all billionaires are bad people, or that they should be compelled or whatever into giving more money away....that's where I take issue.

Also, I looked at the charitable giving of all the presidential candidates. It's fucking sad.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,318
Like, my husband and I are fairly well off. We earn multiples of the median income in our area. We also own a quarter of the company he runs. We absolutely should pay more in taxes. No question in my mind. We aren't even that wealthy, but we should definitely be required to pay more. So should millionaires. So should billionaires. I don' think anyone disputes that. The idea, though, that all billionaires are bad people, or that they should be compelled or whatever into giving more money away....that's where I take issue.

Also, I looked at the charitable giving of all the presidential candidates. It's fucking sad.
It’s not giving away money if they are effectively taxed.
Charitable giving does not replace structural change which requires progressive taxation especially on in-efficient money.

Inheritance money is unproductive and low velocity. There is no reason for taxation at a certain threshold not to be a “flogging.”

The number of billionaires in this country is a market failure.
 

Exellus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,063
Like, my husband and I are fairly well off. We earn multiples of the median income in our area. We also own a quarter of the company he runs. We absolutely should pay more in taxes. No question in my mind. We aren't even that wealthy, but we should definitely be required to pay more. So should millionaires. So should billionaires. I don' think anyone disputes that. The idea, though, that all billionaires are bad people, or that they should be compelled or whatever into giving more money away....that's where I take issue.

Also, I looked at the charitable giving of all the presidential candidates. It's fucking sad.
No person on this planet deserves to be a billionaire like that. No amount of work or effort, not even a lifetimes work is worth that amount of wealth. I don't care if you single-handedly cure cancer, that is too much fucking wealth for an individual, period.
 

Mulligan

Member
Oct 29, 2017
471
I know this is an insanely dumb question, but how the fuck does Kellyanne Conway have a job? She’s terrible at hiding her racism and homophobia.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,132
I know this is an insanely dumb question, but how the fuck does Kellyanne Conway have a job? She’s terrible at hiding her racism and homophobia.
Her boss is a rascist and homophobic ... and her boss is the president of the United States.

Who is going to hold her accountable for saying shit on TV/twitter?