For branding purposes this is actually a good way to win a completely fucked senate map whether we like it or not
Legislatively his consensus nonsense won't work but this sort of rhetoric does actually go over better with voters in purple/red states
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
US PoliEra 2019 |OT6| Have You Hurd About These GOP Retirements?
- Thread starter Ogodei
- Start date
- Status
For branding purposes this is actually a good way to win a completely fucked senate map whether we like it or not
Legislatively his consensus nonsense won't work but this sort of rhetoric does actually go over better with voters in purple/red states
Winter
"Record lows in Winter, so much for global warming"
Summer
"It's July"
Extreme weather in the Midwest
"It's chemtrails"
Most people buy an expensive sports car or a motorcycle when they're going through a midlife crisis. Delaney just runs for President.
I wish I was bad ass enouph to be active antifa like I agree eith and call myself antifa but I am a big Wimp
Bernie Sanders voice is extremely important in this race. It's why his platform has been the lens by which both debates have been criticized through.
And he's still in the race posting around 2nd place on aggregate.
No one else matches Sanders in foreign policy and he's the candidate least likely to compromise on healthcare as a right.
He's nowhere close to being on his way out. There are plenty of other candidates who are polling much lower than Sanders.
A Democratic Socialist is one of the most positively received Senators in the country with a more diverse pool of supporters and higher favorability ratings than the other progressive candidate.
There are plenty of people who like Sanders and it's August 2019.
And he's still in the race posting around 2nd place on aggregate.
No one else matches Sanders in foreign policy and he's the candidate least likely to compromise on healthcare as a right.
He's nowhere close to being on his way out. There are plenty of other candidates who are polling much lower than Sanders.
A Democratic Socialist is one of the most positively received Senators in the country with a more diverse pool of supporters and higher favorability ratings than the other progressive candidate.
There are plenty of people who like Sanders and it's August 2019.
I do remember seeing some stories about Russian bots having a side "boost Bernie" objective, but honestly, I doubt it had much to do with his popularity in 2016 compared to serving as a) a progressive policy voice and b) a "not Hillary" vote accumulator.
Did you... miss all of that? That Russia was in the tank for Sanders? This has been well documented.
I'm not denying that Sanders had his own message to carry, but it's a fact that Russia used him and his supporters to damage Clinton.
Meanwhile at the Kentucky State Fair as if Bevin can't get any more pathetic, insufferable, and clearly using this as a desperation attempt to save his campaign.
He's literally went over to the KY Dem's booth in a Trump blazer to fucking try to troll with supporters
Me right now:
He's literally went over to the KY Dem's booth in a Trump blazer to fucking try to troll with supporters
Me right now:
Last edited:
Hot take
any of these dems as president will likely accomplish the same stuff on domestic policy unless one of them has a magic timeline were we crush the senate in a fanfic way
any of these dems as president will likely accomplish the same stuff on domestic policy unless one of them has a magic timeline were we crush the senate in a fanfic way
well you seemed to insinuate that Russian trolls were the major reason why bernie gained traction, which is bit laughable honestly
and I sort of disagree with your framing that Russia was in the tank for Sanders. yeah there were some social media ads and stuff like that. they did the same thing with BLM. doesn't mean BLM was a Russian op or something
Those Sinema numbers basically translate to me as saying "be at least center right on immigration and a normal democrat in virtually every other category and you'll probably win every swing state"
Well see how it goes
Well see how it goes
The one thing the President has complete control over is the military.
The argument against ending unauthorized combat in foreign countries is the same red scare bullshit which kept us in Vietnam.
You have to be tough on Putin/Mao/Brezhnev. A Sanders presidency will be filled with bi-partisan calls for reigning in the executive powers of the President.
To maintain our forever wars in the name of spreading American Democracy and protecting our allies from the Red Invasion.
I mean it wasn't the only reason. I don't think anyone has said that. But it was a bit more than a "some social media ads."
Bernie benefited from several things in gaining traction in 2016. He was the only non-Clinton candidate. He managed to use Hillary's ties to Obama to drive support in states such as West Virginia. He also benefited from Russia's attempts to take out Hillary from the get go. And, yes, there were some people who were into his message. But his inability to get close to replicating his 2016 coalition is proof positive of what a lot of folks have been saying.
Edit: Also the 2016 dem primary wasn't close enough for the type of meddling Russia was doing to have actually had a chance of swinging the election to Bernie.
There were legitimate journalists like Virginia Heffernan saying Sanders was a stooge/agent for the Kremlin.
How do you replicate the coalition when there are 100 candidates in the race now when there were very few candidates who had the guts to do it last time. How does that prove Sanders "successes" last time were a Russian creation or something worthy of smearing him with?
Sanders is hovering around 16.5 to 17% national support along with Warren. I don't understand what coalition he does not have this time.
I mostly agree, with a couple exceptions. Anybody in favor of crushing the filibuster has a much higher chance to actually get legislation passed, and there's a few candidates (Warren and Harris, most notably) who've talked a lot about what they could do solely with the executive branch. Warren in particular is going to have a very different staff setup than most of the others would have, which could do a lot to shake things up.
Ugh, somebody arrest Bevin for crimes against fashion, that's a fuckin' tacky ass look even without Trump's mug on it. Doesn't seem like anyone around him is getting trolled like he imagines and he just looks like a buffoon (more than usual).
His coalition last time had a lot of "anyone but Hillary" people who are not natural allies of his otherwise. The properly DemSoc portion of the Dems is still tiny (any polls which say which portion of the party are self-identified Socialists?). He gathered a coalition of Dems who are anti-DNC for varying reasons, including the blue dogs of Kentucky and WV, or why DINO's like Tulsi glommed on. It's to his credit that he was willing to stand up to Clinton in what otherwise would have been a real non-starter of a primary, but he absolutely can't replicate that.
In fact, I'd bet if you did poll the portion of the base who are self-identified socialists, it would not exceed 15% of registered Dems.
I mean, he is not hovering around 17% unless you only look at a handful of online only polls and ignore high quality telephone polls. The Fox News Poll, for instance, has Bernie going from 23% in March to 10% now. His trajectory is pretty clear, and is indicative that he isn't even close to activating the parts of his 2016 coalition. But, again, in poll after poll, we see Bernie isn't winning the most liberal group of voters (Warren is.) He's not winning white voters like he did in 2016. (Warren is.) It's not like he's leading with these groups at just a smaller margin...he's literally doing worse with them. Hell, he's not even winning Bernie 2016 voters. He's at 100% name recognition, and is very few voters second choice. He's a known quantity, and voters aren't interested.
And, again, a lot of Bernie's 2016 support was based on being the only not clinton in the race. There are now a million choices, and he is not going to get those voters. West Virginia is not some liberal socialist utopia! There are fewer caucuses in 2016. His 2016 base wasn't enough, and there is zero evidence to suggest he is actually expanding his base whatsoever.
There aren't that many self-identifying socialists in America, you are right. Those feeling have been beaten and propagandized out of American consciousness for decades, but I would say blue dogs in red states and DINOs aren't the majority of his coalition either.
I think there are plenty of people who would buy into his populist message. I think Warren is trying to do this and has been fairly successful. I think Sanders is doing fairly well too and there is plenty of time for the front-runner to alienate voters.
I mean it's pretty clear there was a very big Anyone But Clinton contingent to his rise.
A big chunk of his 2016 voters have gone to Biden.
It would have been interesting if Warren had run last time.
Also the plurality chunk of Warren's voters' second preference is Harris not Sanders.
A big chunk of his 2016 voters have gone to Biden.
It would have been interesting if Warren had run last time.
Also the plurality chunk of Warren's voters' second preference is Harris not Sanders.
Also, to be clear, you do not have to be responsible for something to benefit from it. Bernie benefited from sexism among the mouth breathers who didn't want to vote for a woman. He benefited from the 30 years of bullshit the right threw at Hillary. He benefited from Russia's interference. He benefited (and was harmed by) his alienation of Obama's coalition (hence his strength in places like West Virginia.) That doesn't mean he is a sexist, Republican, Russian stooge. But you cannot pretend that there weren't benefits from running against, specifically, Hillary Clinton.
There was a way to successfully weaponize the "Anyone but clinton" vote, but he didn't do it.
There was a way to successfully weaponize the "Anyone but clinton" vote, but he didn't do it.
You can look at single polls and give yourself any conclusion you want. RCP has had him around 17% for a while. Sometimes ahead and sometime behind Sanders. Warren is winning the most "liberal" group of voters, if your definition of liberal is rich educated white people.
It's not just name recognition. And don't most polls show him as the 2nd choice for Biden voters for a long ass time? I will give you that is due to his name recognition, but he's also appealing to a more diverse pool of voters than Warren. His ideas have re-shaped the debates in the primary and the infrastructure of his campaign is built for the long haul versus last time when he was unprepared for a long race against Clinton.
He's not going away. He's in position to do well, and there are a lot of people who hope he goes away so Warren can win and compromise. I would be okay with that result, but I believe Sanders can do it this time. The Fox News poll is bad, but it's one poll and it's early.
Is anyone calling for Harris to drop out of the race or Buttigeg who are polling way worse? Sanders has the money, popularity, and message to keep going.
I look forward to a foreign policy debate where Sanders can differentiate himself even more.
Yes. There were benefits to running against Hillary Clinton. This much is known.
Bernie has never been able to differentiate himself in a foreign policy debate lol. Remember in 2016 when he was asked a foreign policy question and immediately pivoted to millionaires/billionaires/wall street. And, no I don't think he needs to drop out right now. I think he'll never drop out and will hurt Warren because he has a history. But that's neither here nor there. And it's totally fine you support him, but the la la la everything is fine and he's really doing well and it's all going exactly as it should is exactly why he won't win this time either. But I ain't mad, you know I less than 3 you <3 :P
Last edited:
Its funny how Pete has a third of Bernie's support and less than zero chance of getting PoC voters and some people here go "oh Petes nice i like Pete". At least with Kamala i get that she still has a shot.
Also the idea that 2020 Bernie wouldnt differentiate himself when it comes to a foreign policy debate is (i hope) inaccurate. His positions on Israel, Saudi arabia and others are now better than ever.
I genuinely dont know where Bernie goes from here. If he ever gets below 15% average for more than a week then i dont see him coming back from that.
Also the idea that 2020 Bernie wouldnt differentiate himself when it comes to a foreign policy debate is (i hope) inaccurate. His positions on Israel, Saudi arabia and others are now better than ever.
I genuinely dont know where Bernie goes from here. If he ever gets below 15% average for more than a week then i dont see him coming back from that.
Now, I do think the people who voted for Sanders also saw the appeal of his message. In primary elections, the breach in a party is typically driven by whoever is most prominent and the ideological coalitions build around that. In 2016 the party split was really social issues versus economic issues, and Sanders coalition were those who prioritized economic issues, which is how you could unite Socialists with Blue Dogs. Clinton being a feminist icon and having the strong support of the black community meant that her brand became social in nature.
Right now the split is more cleanly ideological, but when the chips start to fall it'll be interesting to see the coalitions among those who go the distance.
Right now the split is more cleanly ideological, but when the chips start to fall it'll be interesting to see the coalitions among those who go the distance.
That's fine. And also, I'm looking at RCP and not just one single poll.
The Politco poll has Warren 6 points back of Sanders. I understand Fox News is an A+ poller and his drop there is significant in national polls, but it's also a national poll and there is 6 months until Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada.
Warren supporters better hope Bernie stays in, because if his supporters' second choice is really Biden, then if he drops out Biden will be the one to gain the most.
His positions might be different, but he is very bad at talking about them. I also don't think foreign policy is a huge driver atm for the democratic electorate. That could change or be in flux of course. As to your first point, ya, Booty isn't getting the nomination either. I definitely think no one disputes that. No one is saying Bernie should drop out right now, but I do dispute the idea that he has a viable path to the nomination.
Eh, I mean, there have been several polls that indicate Bernie (and Biden's) support is strongest among those who are paying very little attention at the moment. He's benefiting from name recognition among folks who couldn't care less at the minute.
Lol who is calling for Sanders to drop out though. You people are boxing at shadows.
None of the top 5 are dropping out before Iowa.
Delaney isn't even dropping out before Iowa lol.
None of the top 5 are dropping out before Iowa.
Delaney isn't even dropping out before Iowa lol.
The recent Pew Poll paints a different picture with second preferences in that th both Biden and Sanders' supporters don't really have them.
Warren had the ability to flip key endorsements, wasn't married to Bill Clinton and is basically a dumb protectionist like Bernie and would have been able to lean into all of that really effectively in the rust belt and elsewhere
She could have swayed the institutional support Bernie couldn't get and have been able to position herself as "a woman but not that woman" against Hillary and go against her "yay women look at my best friend Katy Perry" she made such a big part of her campaign
Sort of a shame she didn't just run herself last time and told Bernie to run instead
Oh well
She could have swayed the institutional support Bernie couldn't get and have been able to position herself as "a woman but not that woman" against Hillary and go against her "yay women look at my best friend Katy Perry" she made such a big part of her campaign
Sort of a shame she didn't just run herself last time and told Bernie to run instead
Oh well
I remembered right and Punished Nate did a write up on 2016 ->2020.
I'm going to ignore his punditry and just post the data.
As a reminder she got about 55% to his 43%.
So to indulge in similar punditry.
A chunk of his voters have stayed with him. Die hard fans? Leftists who think he's the best messenger?
A chunk has also gone to Warren, who maybe think she's the better messenger, and presumably aren't die hard fans.
And then has a chunk has gone to centrist neoliberal corporate shills like Biden Harris Buttigieg Booker O'Rourke and all the other white male randos.
While 5% was presumably 4chan Ron Paul libertarians and has gone to Yang.
I'm going to ignore his punditry and just post the data.
As a reminder she got about 55% to his 43%.
So to indulge in similar punditry.
A chunk of his voters have stayed with him. Die hard fans? Leftists who think he's the best messenger?
A chunk has also gone to Warren, who maybe think she's the better messenger, and presumably aren't die hard fans.
And then has a chunk has gone to centrist neoliberal corporate shills like Biden Harris Buttigieg Booker O'Rourke and all the other white male randos.
While 5% was presumably 4chan Ron Paul libertarians and has gone to Yang.
Last edited:
David Sirota running to give Bernie another desperate and dumb idea.gif
I am pretty sure this "let's attack the media" stuff from last week is dropping Bernie's numbers too. The campaign is stuck in 2015. Democrats aren't angry at the establishment anymore, or at least not as angry as they are against Trump.
Is there really any other option at this point?
Clinton was a shit candidate. Move on.
- Status