US PoliEra 2019 |OT6| Have You Hurd About These GOP Retirements?

devSin · Aug 23, 2019

UnapologeticallyBLK said:
I think that making this argument ignores that white people are becoming a minority in the country and that black and brown people, women, and the LGBT community are willing to loudly voice their desire for certain human rights in a way that they never have before in our history, and that is the context which makes this moment in our history a bit different than the past 200.

There's no evidence any country could ever be infinitely sustainable. However, on a global scale, America is far from some shrinking empire, and it's far from the only country struggling with changing demographics.

No, the current situation cannot persist indefinitely. But I don't see any reasonable indication that's even possible (as you note, the shifting makeup of the country has already put a clock on minority rule). Change will come as it always has: slowly.

Splitting the country isn't a rational course of action, and I don't believe that there exists the will or the means to actually make it happen (most states are not self-sufficient and don't really have much choice, and those that could do it have so much to lose that it's just not worth it).

Diablos · Aug 23, 2019

Sheepinator said:
Today's market action in convenient chart form. Who is the real enemy again?

I need more alcohol

If you saw this chart a few years ago you'd think it was from The Onion

Linkura · Aug 23, 2019

Kaitos said:
People live until they're 91! Not unheard of. I seriously doubt we see any ideological shifts on the court for the next decade.

Which means we'll be feeling the ramification of 2016 for years.

Yeah, but when you get to that age, you think he'd want to retire when's there a GOP President as opposed to risking it.

At any rate, I do agree that I don't see him retiring at this point.

TheHunter · Aug 23, 2019

Good thing I sold my father's stocks and IRA a few days ago instead of waiting.

Me thinks it's gonna all go down from here (relatively speaking)

Ogodei · Aug 23, 2019

Autodidact said:
If Trump's prospects continue looking dire, I can see Thomas leaving.

Thomas isn't that old. I think he would try and outlast a Dem admin. He'd be 80 by the time Dems got two turns at it.

I think if Trump wins again he'll retire in 2022, which would be a bad year Senate-wise for them in a second Trump term.

Linkura · Aug 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
Good thing I sold my father's stocks and IRA a few days ago instead of waiting.

Me thinks it's gonna all go down from here (relatively speaking)

My dad plans to retire in a little over a year.

I wonder how that's gonna go down. I doubt he's converted his retirement funds into safer investments and he's not the type to let me manage for him.

Kusagari · Aug 23, 2019

Thomas has always struck me as a guy who would rather just die on the court than retire.

Plinko · Aug 23, 2019

Autodidact said:
If Trump's prospects continue looking dire, I can see Thomas leaving.

He has the best job in the country. He doesn't even ever talk!

shinra-bansho · Aug 23, 2019

He's going to create 20 million new union jobs. (No he's not, unless he also creates 20 million new human beings.) He's going to eliminate fossil fuels by 2030 at the latest. (I don't think even the most optimistic environmentalist thinks we can build out solar and wind that fast.) Electricity will be "virtually free" by 2035. (Oh please.)

And there's the spending. Two trillion dollars to weatherize homes. Another two trillion to allow people to trade in their old gas burners for electric vehicles. Half a trillion to replace school buses. A trillion dollars for public transit and high-speed rail. I'm open to expert opinion on this, but everything I know about climate change tells me that this is an enormous amount to spend on things that will have only modest impacts.

But at least Sanders will also dedicate huge amounts to R&D, right? He says right at the top that he'll make "massive investments" in new research. But down in the details, R&D appears to get $800 billion, only a little more than he'd spend on school buses. This is a wild mismatch. Sanders appears to be more interested in creating a huge federal jobs program than he is in seriously taking on climate change.

lmao

I'm guessing the brigade goes after Mother Jones now.

Diablos · Aug 23, 2019

Kusagari said:
Thomas has always struck me as a guy who would rather just die on the court than retire.

Nah, he's an extreme partisan but can logically make decisions if only for further advancing his ideology. He's also been on the court for a long, long time.

Pixieking · Aug 23, 2019

spx54 said:
what is going on with him?

is this his new campaign slogan "I'm not going nuts!"

Christ, imagine being that old and that worried about senility. Like, that's nothing to laugh about - he's legit worried about the media calling him nuts when he clearly knows the possibility is there.

TheHunter · Aug 23, 2019

Linkura said:
My dad plans to retire in a little over a year.

I wonder how that's gonna go down. I doubt he's converted his retirement funds into safer investments and he's not the type to let me manage for him.

Yikes is all I'll say.

Hopefully he did convert to bonds or he's in for some hurt.

Ernest · Aug 23, 2019

I wonder why Onion hasn't had a single "Diamond Joe" Biden story for more than a year, not even a single one since he started running.

gaugebozo · Aug 23, 2019

spx54 said:
what is going on with him?

is this his new campaign slogan "I'm not going nuts!"

Too many great OT names. There are like three per day.

Linkura · Aug 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
Yikes is all I'll say.

Hopefully he did convert to bonds or he's in for some hurt.

He never listens to me and has easily wasted 7 figures on constantly buying new cars and trading them in- delaying his retirement by likely over a decade- so I fail to care tbh. They've lived 700 miles away from us for 8 years because he refused to take a job at a lower pay (still well over $100k) so he could pay for his cars instead of seeing me and the rest of the family. Then they gave me agita when I was trying to get my aunt into assisted living earlier this year. They've also refused to update their will- last one was 30 years ago and gave everything to my grandpa, who has been dead for 15 years. Me and other family members have told them to update it for years, but they won't listen. Not gonna help my parents out if they fucked themselves.

Diablos · Aug 23, 2019

RBG sure is tough.

lmcfigs · Aug 23, 2019

He's sounding like Hillary here

TheHunter · Aug 23, 2019

Linkura said:
He never listens to me and has easily wasted 7 figures on constantly buying new cars and trading them in- delaying his retirement by likely over a decade- so I fail to care tbh. They've lived 700 miles away from us for 8 years because he refused to take a job at a lower pay (still well over $100k) so he could pay for his cars instead of seeing me and the rest of the family. Then they gave me agita when I was trying to get my aunt into assisted living earlier this year. Not gonna help my parents out if they fucked themselves.

This hurts the investment man and financial smart man in me. My father also traded in cars constantly and was well off (hello no debts at all for myself now).

He had 7,000 left on his car and almost 5x that amount in cash alone. Terrible at finance; thank god he had someone else to manage his stock portfolio.

shinra-bansho · Aug 23, 2019

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magaz...izabeth-warrens-free-college-plan-gets-wrong/

Just dropping this here because I think it's a good read.

TL;DR version, again the problem with these free college plans is that they are poorly designed and end up rewarding those that need it least or deserve it least, while not doing anything to control quality and cost.

Psamtik · Aug 23, 2019

spx54 said:
what is going on with him?

is this his new campaign slogan "I'm not going nuts!"

Sure reads like he's joking about how his not knowing the layout of that particular campus will be construed as indicative of his having lost his marbles.

TheHunter · Aug 23, 2019

Linkura said:
They've also refused to update their will- last one was 30 years ago and gave everything to my grandpa, who has been dead for 15 years. Me and other family members have told them to update it for years, but they won't listen. Not gonna help my parents out if they fucked themselves.

As someone dealing with that now, I'm so sorry to hear that.

We'd be up shit creek without me being the beneficiary on everything; hell we're still getting shit from the banks!

Chikor · Aug 23, 2019

lmcfigs said:
He's sounding like Hillary here

You know, maybe I was wrong, maybe he can reach republican voters after all.

Diablos · Aug 23, 2019

Biden cannot be the nominee.

Surely people will start seeing the light soon

Deleted member 8561 · Aug 23, 2019

Diversify

Hedge with crypto

Aarglefarg · Aug 23, 2019

Hopefully a "Please clap" moment.

(the "I'm not going nuts" one)

Deleted member 7462 · Aug 23, 2019

devSin said:
There's no evidence any country could ever be infinitely sustainable. However, on a global scale, America is far from some shrinking empire, and it's far from the only country struggling with changing demographics.

No, the current situation cannot persist indefinitely. But I don't see any reasonable indication that's even possible (as you note, the shifting makeup of the country has already put a clock on minority rule). Change will come as it always has: slowly.

Splitting the country isn't a rational course of action, and I don't believe that there exists the will or the means to actually make it happen (most states are not self-sufficient and don't really have much choice, and those that could do it have so much to lose that it's just not worth it).

Well, I don't think anyone was making the argument that the U.S. is infinitely sustainable.

I do think that migration pressures and the browning of America are going to be changes that happen too quickly for a large, soon-to-be minority in the country, and I don't think that this is too comparable to past shifts in society in the U.S., that's all.

less · Aug 23, 2019

Diablos said:
Biden cannot be the nominee.

Surely people will start seeing the light soon

It'll be a slow process and a death of many cuts for Biden's nomination. His goal is to keep the fuckups to a minimum and he might just manage enough to outlast everyone.

Linkura · Aug 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
This hurts the investment man and financial smart man in me. My father also traded in cars constantly and was well off (hello no debts at all for myself now).

He had 7,000 left on his car and almost 5x that amount in cash alone. Terrible at finance; thank god he had someone else to manage his stock portfolio.

My dad has been in banking his whole career too and is a very smart guy. Unfortunately it seems to all stem from family shit; his dad and his uncle were/are huge car guys- they love/d to work on and show off antique cars. My uncle had a career in auto body but already retired because he saved like a maniac and is the opposite of dad in that regard. But his dad refused to teach my dad how to work on cars because he was supposed to be the "smart one." So he just buys new cars all the time due to his insecurities. The family has pointed this out billions of times but he refuses to own up to it or get therapy for it.

After seeing this growing up I am basically the total opposite finance-wise. No debt, max out retirement, very frugal. Car is over 8 years old; my husband's car is almost 12.

TheHunter said:
As someone dealing with that now, I'm so sorry to hear that.

We'd be up shit creek without me being the beneficiary on everything; hell we're still getting shit from the banks!

I'm driving them to a fucking lawyer as soon as they move back here. As long as one of them is still alive, I can deal with it. I don't care if I get a penny, and I've told them this; I just don't want a fiasco when they die.

Percival Sparkletrout · Aug 23, 2019

Diablos said:
Biden cannot be the nominee.

Surely people will start seeing the light soon

We said the same about Trump.

Deleted member 7462 · Aug 23, 2019

Percival Sparkletrout said:
We said the same about Trump.

In fairness, GOP voters are pure evil and our voters are just trying to balance pragmatism with policy preferences.

Teggy · Aug 23, 2019

I seem to recall reading that Thomas has vowed to stay on the court as long as possible as revenge for the Anita Hill hearings. I'd have to look up where I read that, tho.

Yeah

When asked some years ago how long he'd stay on the court, he reportedly said that he'd stay there for next 43 years of his life. He was 43 at the time. In a more revealing aside, he supposedly quipped to friends that it would take him that long to get even. Whether that is hyperbole or an apocryphal tale, it hasn't taken him 43 years to wreak his revenge.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/clarence-thomas-continues_b_10116202

cameron · Aug 23, 2019

TheHunter · Aug 23, 2019

The correct answer is fuck Glenn Greenwald.

Linkura · Aug 23, 2019

My pathological liar aunt with MCI has more credibility than SHS.

shinra-bansho · Aug 23, 2019

JEFF BEZOS PROPOGANDA RAG: Trump's wall is child's play compared to Bernie Sanders's climate plan

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...b69490-c5da-11e9-9986-1fb3e4397be4_story.html

Sanders will replace or scrap all aircraft, the vast majority of cars and trucks, most buses, trains and ships; hundreds of power plants; and much of the electrical grid...
He will spend $16.3 trillion on this project, but he promises to recoup a fair chunk of that money by suing companies for doing things that aren't illegal ...

Let me be clear: I support concerted action to mitigate climate change. I'm just not sure make-believe is the best way to do it. Sanders was on the right track four years ago, when he put a carbon tax at the center of his climate plan. It's a bold step with bipartisan support. And a president who worked extremely hard and effectively for three or four years might be able to pass it. Asked by reporters why he no longer supports the tax, Sanders replied that it doesn't go far enough.

In other words, he hasn't delivered on the first idea, so he's moving on to something much bigger and far more difficult.

Sanders fans approve of his fantasy even though they know it won't really happen. "I see these proposals as both markers and mobilizing tools," climate policy expert Jody Freeman told Hailey Fuchs and Michael Scherer of The Post. "They are a marker that says, 'We care about climate change. We really, really do.' "

The implication here is that realism equals apathy. The true measure of a candidate's convictions is the hyperbole of the promises. By this logic, former vice president Joe Biden or Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) should now promise to replace all vehicles and power plants in five years. Then Sen. Kamala D. Harris or former housing secretary Julián Castro can promise to do it in the first 100 days. Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) should promise to spend eleventy-jillion. Don't they really, really, really care?

Freeman is onto something important about this political season. Voters appear to want grand gestures more than they want achievable policies. They'd rather be bathed in agreeable hogwash than be tasked with achievable goals.

Plutone · Aug 23, 2019

i just want someone to punch me in the face

Teggy said:
I seem to recall reading that Thomas has vowed to stay on the court as long as possible as revenge for the Anita Hill hearings. I'd have to look up where I read that, tho.

Yeah

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/clarence-thomas-continues_b_10116202

My gender is so fucking trash man, what the fuck

Deleted member 8257 · Aug 23, 2019

Diablos said:
Biden cannot be the nominee.

Surely people will start seeing the light soon

I believe there are couple of things. 1, Biden still has immense name recognition. Election is still 1+ year away. It should start to fluctuate before Iowa caucuses. Also keep in mind early performance in states like Iowa and NH upend a lot of things.

Secondly, and this is my guess, that lot of Biden support is coming from shellshocked Democrats from Trump presidency. Biden is a guarantee* that he will get some racist Trump crossovers as well as keep Obama coalition. Bernie, Warren, etc supporters seem to be cognizant of the fact that Trump has nonzero chance of winning 2020. I'm of that group. Being aware of this fact doesn't mean you're OK with it. Far from it. It's more about exciting your base rather than fielding racists in Iowa.

*Nothing is a guarantee. At least in their mind it is.

Joe · Aug 23, 2019

Ernest said:
I wonder why Onion hasn't had a single "Diamond Joe" Biden story for more than a year, not even a single one since he started running.

I recall reading that the guy who wrote most of them kinda regrets it now, because of how endearing the character ended up being.

Linkura · Aug 23, 2019

RustyNails said:
I believe there are couple of things. 1, Biden still has immense name recognition. Election is still 1+ year away. It should start to fluctuate before Iowa caucuses. Also keep in mind early performance in states like Iowa and NH upend a lot of things.

Secondly, and this is my guess, that lot of Biden support is coming from shellshocked Democrats from Trump presidency. Biden is a guarantee* that he will get some racist Trump crossovers as well as keep Obama coalition. Bernie, Warren, etc supporters seem to be cognizant of the fact that Trump has nonzero chance of winning 2020. I'm of that group. Being aware of this fact doesn't mean you're OK with it. Far from it. It's more about exciting your base rather than fielding racists in Iowa.

*Nothing is a guarantee. At least in their mind it is.

The whole guarantee thing is bullshit considering most people thought Hildawg was guaranteed to win in 2016.

Deleted member 8561 · Aug 23, 2019

shinra-bansho said:
JEFF BEZOS PROPOGANDA RAG: Trump's wall is child's play compared to Bernie Sanders's climate plan

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...b69490-c5da-11e9-9986-1fb3e4397be4_story.html

Oh hey, the thing I said Sanders proposal was is probably exactly what it is

The implication here is that realism equals apathy. The true measure of a candidate's convictions is the hyperbole of the promises. By this logic, former vice president Joe Biden or Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) should now promise to replace all vehicles and power plants in five years. Then Sen. Kamala D. Harris or former housing secretary Julián Castro can promise to do it in the first 100 days. Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) should promise to spend eleventy-jillion. Don't they really, really, really care?

fancy dat

Edit: The fuck is going on with this site tonight

devSin · Aug 23, 2019

Joe said:
I recall reading that the guy who wrote most of them kinda regrets it now, because of how endearing the character ended up being.

I believe he only said that when Biden entered the race and it was clear that he would trounce Bernie.

Suddenly he had all this regret.

shinra-bansho · Aug 23, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
Oh hey, the thing I said Sanders proposal was is probably exactly what it is

fancy dat

Edit: The fuck is going on with this site tonight

I mean the thing is, I'm not fundamentally opposed to proposals as messaging and rallying cries.

You campaign in poetry and govern in prose.

The problem I have is that, (1) one cannot help but get the sense that (and this is perhaps where I disagree with the author) the candidate and his supporters actually think that the pie-in-the-sky proposal is the best way to do things.

And (2) there's taking things to the point where they're just ridiculous.

And when you combine these it ends up shutting down actual proposals towards tackling issues... because they become... purity tests.

Double 0 · Aug 23, 2019

Those articles about Sanders' plans are brutal, and could happen just as easily to Warren. Just not as harsh because Sanders is more aggressive.

But what those articles scratch the surface on is that the left have seen Ryan, McConnell, and Trump get some absolute bullshit go through. Judges, tax cuts, shitty executive orders.

Not only that, but they are dangerously afraid of the future. That works in a populist's favor. Left or right.

Hence Sanders being 2nd/3rd. Well, that and name recognition

Pixieking · Aug 23, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
Oh hey, the thing I said Sanders proposal was is probably exactly what it is

The implication here is that realism equals apathy. The true measure of a candidate's convictions is the hyperbole of the promises. By this logic, former vice president Joe Biden or Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) should now promise to replace all vehicles and power plants in five years. Then Sen. Kamala D. Harris or former housing secretary Julián Castro can promise to do it in the first 100 days. Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) should promise to spend eleventy-jillion. Don't they really, really, really care?

fancy dat

It's the natural extension of 2016, though - Hillary was the realistic candidate, the "get things done and they might not be the best, but they'll be baby steps towards the best" candidate, the political candidate. But people wanted unrealistic - whether it be Sanders and his "we'll get it done" obliviousness, or Trump and his ability to sell people the past ("more coal jobs in the future, more manufacturing jobs in the future").

A balance does have to be struck between being imaginative enough that you don't hem yourself in because of your realism, and being so unrealistic that you have to spend your first 100 days back at the drawing board because you've sold people dreams and nothing more.

Commedieu · Aug 23, 2019

Psamtik said:
Sure reads like he's joking about how his not knowing the layout of that particular campus will be construed as indicative of his having lost his marbles.

You can explain that by using words. Without having to explain what youre explaining. No need to detail things you dont remember. Just say i was there at x.

Everytime he opens his mouth he has to explain why its opening.

Madison · Aug 23, 2019

TheHunter said:
The correct answer is fuck Glenn Greenwald.

The correct answer is that Glenn is a shitty person who was also done some of the most important work of brazilian journalism of the last 50 years

adam387 · Aug 23, 2019

The issue is Bernie's climate "plan" isn't just unrealistic, it's pure fantasy. It's absurd on every single level. Top to bottom there is no way this is even remotely feasible. It's fanfiction pretending to be policy. That's dangerous, because a lot of his base swallows everything he spits out as pure gospel and the only way to do things.

Kirblar · Aug 23, 2019

Fork said:
The correct answer is that Glenn is a shitty person who was also done some of the most important work of brazilian journalism of the last 50 years

I'm not sure how helping prop up fascism around the globe is "important journalism."

shinra-bansho · Aug 23, 2019

I am sort of curious, not that I think it will happen, but if Sanders were to become President and fails to:

Transition all US electricity use to renewables and create 20 million jobs through entirely public spending
Institute a debt jubilee and the poorly thought out plan to make public college free
Eliminate private insurance and transition everyone to a heavily expanded Medicare system in 4 years

What happens to his support base. Do they become disillusioned and done with politics?
Do they keep the faith and blame everyone else?

Double 0 · Aug 23, 2019

shinra-bansho said:
I am sort of curious, not that I think it will happen, but if Sanders were to become President and fails to:

Transition all US electricity use to renewables and create 20 million jobs through entirely public spending

Institute a debt jubilee and the poorly thought out plan to make public college free

Eliminate private insurance and transition everyone to a heavily expanded Medicare system in 4 years

What happens to his support base. Do they become disillusioned and done with politics?

US becomes a right wing country for another three decades, just like Carter.

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