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patientzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
South Park 2016's "We were completely wrong in 2004, please learn from our mistakes" stuff was basically the problem in a nutshell. This is a problem borne of the current 18-25yos growing up under a Dem pres as voters and not understanding the problem with the alternative.

And it's a different set of 18-25 year olds every few elections. This is a cyclical issue (much as you describe it as systemic), much like how we see 3rd parties read their heads as a problem in those same elections.

I was 12 years old in 2000 and even then I knew there was a huge difference in who won.

People just, as I said last night, lack intelligence and/or empathy. It's possible for people to gain both, but most people don't want to bother.

I do agree with that. Hell, I see it not only among family and such but even in my students, who by dint of their racial and immigrant backgrounds are pretty damned good about some issues but still harbor and espouse stereotypically wrong views of minimum wage, gun control, etc. A lot of them share a surprising amount of overlap with white, conservative voters in some disturbing ways.

And yea, we've mentioned this before but I was 14 during the 00 election and Bush's win infuriated me. But I was an oddly politically attuned kid thanks to a couple of great teachers and my family (who I spent all of my teen years arguing politics with).
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
If Pete picks up Iowa that's going to make for a weird primary. Didn't Obama basically get launched by Iowa?
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
And yea, we've mentioned this before but I was 14 during the 00 election and Bush's win infuriated me. But I was an oddly politically attuned kid thanks to a couple of great teachers and my family (who I spent all of my teen years arguing politics with).
I'm pretty sure my mom watching MSNBC and such got me into it. She bought me Paul Begala's book Is Our Children Learning? and Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them (though that was post-2000). The former was instrumental in me learning how much of a goddamn idiot W was prior to the election and probably kickstarted my interest in politics.

My teachers didn't do shit; in fact, I brought Is Our Children Learning? to school and my history/social studies teacher told me to put it away before class as I was showing people.
 

ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,476
The mention of South Park got me thinking about how USA treated politics during the Bush years. That show is one of the worst shows to watch because of how they treated a lot of subjects in a very backward manner.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
Lol why is Birdie's base salary for organizers so shit compared to other campaigns? It's not like he doesn't have funds.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
The mention of South Park got me thinking about how USA treated politics during the Bush years. That show is one of the worst shows to watch because of how they treated a lot of subjects in a very backward manner.
Yeah. Thankfully I was already woke before then (see above post) and didn't let the show's politics get to me even though I watched it a lot around then.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,379
All I remember about the 2000 election is us doing a mock election in 6th grade and literally nobody voting for Bush.
 

MizerMan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,175
You also have either a significant amount of privilege (who cares who wins, I won't be affected) or cynicism (who cares who wins, no one will help me) to not recognize the difference. The second point is at least understandable, though imo is often premature (akin to the Flanders "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!" line because usually that apathy starts very early on in someone's life).

Then you also have the bozos who just don't take the prospect of the GOP winning seriously. "I thought Gore/Clinton would win!" will never not be a punk-ass excuse.

Yep. Morons like that get a permanent side eye. Then they wanna complain like a bunch of jackasses.

The mention of South Park got me thinking about how USA treated politics during the Bush years. That show is one of the worst shows to watch because of how they treated a lot of subjects in a very backward manner.

Right? The show come off as too clever by half.

All I remember about the 2000 election is us doing a mock election in 6th grade and literally nobody voting for Bush.

I remember shaking my head when Bush stumbled into the White House.
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
A gay millennial wouldn't be the first to come to mind as tailor-made for Iowa, but I guess neither was Hussein Obama.

Caucus voters seem to be ideologically to the left of the party, as evidenced by Sanders doing so well in them against Clinton.

Iowa seems to like "fresh" faces, and O'Rourke's shine has dimmed. We still have more than a few debates before things shake out more clearly.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
It's just weird.
Based on that article, Forma and Butt pay $42K as a base for their field organizers.
Calfcramps is burning through his cash with a base pay of $50.4K.

Why is Birdie's only $36K to begin.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509


Edit: But perhaps more importantly:

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Edit: More:

 
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UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
actually hearing news people calling trumps bullshit straight up racist is throwing me for a loop. no beating around the bush for once.
 

patientzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
I'm pretty sure my mom watching MSNBC and such got me into it. She bought me Paul Begala's book Is Our Children Learning? and Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them (though that was post-2000). The former was instrumental in me learning how much of a goddamn idiot W was prior to the election and probably kickstarted my interest in politics.

My teachers didn't do shit; in fact, I brought Is Our Children Learning? to school and my history/social studies teacher told me to put it away before class as I was showing people.

Yeesh. My 8th-grade teacher was our requisite history person and she devoted a significant chunk of the year to Native American studies, to give an idea on where I was at.

She was a huge influence. Weirdly, so was going to a catholic school. The religion didn't take but the lessons on good works and such did. I was basically molded into liberalism through it even if so many people aren't.

Their politics have definitely changed. There's a lot of newer episodes basically apologizing for past ones in the last few years. (Trans issues, Al Gore, Bush/Kerry)

South Park for me was always a show where I could enjoy the circumstances while always realizing the creators were who they were.

Similar to that, I adore the Simpsons. It shaped me in a hundred ways. I still buy every season on DVD, keep up with the new seasons, etc.

But, that show was also made primarily by a bunch of college-educated, straight, white dudes and it shows. It's an oddly anti-intellectual show while still requiring a certain intellect to engage with it, it's not great on race or gender, etc.

I was doused with media as a kid and somehow developed a media savvy mind very early on.

Another weird source of liberalism for me - 90s daytime talk shows. They were toxic, they were carnivals, but I will always remember an episode of sally Jesse Raphael with a cross dressing man dancing to "these boots were made for walking" and my grandma commenting, "he's got better legs than me." Instantly normalized the concept for me.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The thing about Iowa is that it's filled with people with nothing better to do than go to these rallies.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,242
New York City
I come back and the thread is too sexual to ever go back to the way it was. There's nothing moderate about this content.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,223
This is Beto's plan. And Pete's, I think, but his "Medicare for All who want it" isn't official legislation. Beto's has already passed the House.




I don't understand, Bernie's M4A covers everything that employers offer except maybe Life Insurance. There's still Premiums and the out of pocket pay is much higher in For America.

What's the point of Beto's? What's the point punishing people who's income not low enough and still have to pay premiums? This is lobby money talk
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509
I don't understand, Bernie's M4A covers everything that employers offer except maybe Life Insurance. There's still Premiums and the out of pocket pay is much higher in For America.

What's the point of Beto's? What's the point punishing people who's income not low enough and still have to pay premiums? This is lobby money talk

The point is something that is more likely to pass without serious revision, something that will lead the way to single-payer, and something that can be enacted immediately (M4All needs two years). Beto doesn't take federal lobbyist money. The fight for single-payer would do well to be buffered by something like this because it's going to be a long fight anyway.

On premiums:
What Does It Cost Me?

Premiums, to be established by the Secretary, will be no more than 9.69% of individuals' or households' monthly income. Current Medicare beneficiaries will pay either Medicare's premium (how it is presently calculated) or MFA's, whichever is cheaper. And, individuals and families between 200 and 600 percent of the Federal Poverty Level will receive subsidies. Those below 200 percent will have no premium (or deductible or out of pocket limit).

Deductibles for an individual (including seniors and current Medicare beneficiaries) will be $350; $500 for a family (based on a sliding scale for individuals and families between 200 and 600 percent of the Federal Poverty Level). Maximum out of pocket costs for an individual (including seniors and current Medicare beneficiaries) will be $3,500; $5,000 for families (based on a sliding scale for individuals and families between 200 and 600 percent of the Federal Poverty Level). Premiums will vary by family composition, but no individual or family can pay more than 9.69% of monthly income towards their monthly premium.
More about the bill here. There are likely to be satellite policies implemented, but he hasn't unveiled his full proposal yet. It's likely got some tweaks.


Edit: The apocalyptic emails are out:

 
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