US PoliEra 2019 |OT7| It's happening

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Lo-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,657
New Yawk City!
Releasing the items to own the libs. Did Democrats pop off prematurely?
No. The administration violated the principal of the co-equal branches by suppressing and delaying the report and the House thinks that in itself was illegal. Suppressing the activities of inspectors is also blatantly inappropriate. Pressuring foreign leaders to conspire to rig an election or kneecap a political rival is wrong in itself.

It helps to remember that this is about the coverup, not just the “crime”. They’re acting this way because it blew up in their fucking faces, not because there’s “nothing there”.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,058
People who always complain will always complain. I for one am very happy with these developments and it's what I wanted to happen from the start (since the Mueller report). No need in quibbling over small details when the big picture is on full display... Trump is being formally investigated for impeachment. The whole Democratic party is behind this now and they are united in their message.

What happens next will happen beyond most of our control. It's now time to watch this soap opera unfold.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,945
Everyone wanted impeachment so that the Dems had the authority to exert power to force release of documents, and now you all are nervous nellies because they're getting documents. I need to take a Xanax reading some of these reactions.



Prematurely??!! The WH wasn't going to release this without the impeachment inquiry. If you think otherwise you're daft.
I'm making jokes.

Trump's fucked.
 

Vennt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
248
Releasing the items to own the libs. Did Democrats pop off prematurely?
No, the only thing premature is your acceptance of the WH's admin's framing and attempt to control the narrative.

The transcript of one call isn't the complaint, and there were serious caveats regarding releasing the complaint unredacted. (Some talk of executive privilege).

The call alone will only muddy the waters, exactly what they want (Mueller Part II)

The redactions of the complaint, and fighting over it gives the WH time to drag things out further.

Impeachment was, and is, 100% necessary
 

Kaitos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,134
I don't think Trump understands what's good and what's bad for him because he doesn't understand what's normal.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,496
Western Canada
I have to think that some R representatives have been running the calculus and realize that Trump will be a toxic brand immediately after leaving office (one way or another) as the base lines up behind the next shitgibbon and want to get a headstart on the inevitable gaslighting of "I never liked Trump, I always put country over party, etc."
 

Brock Reiher

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,495
again, when a person gets by their whole life on bluffing and bullying and getting their way all the time, their first reaction when they've realized they crossed a line is to apologize and beg for forgiveness. first Trump called Pelosi and begged her to just make it all go away, now he's complying with earlier demands.

he probably expects Dems to say "oh okay then, no impeachment" like they're playing hardball for the spider man rights
 

RustyNails

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,434
I have a strong feeling Bill "the hatchetman" Barr is going to jump in at the last minute and convince Trump to not release the transcripts. Then Trump will throw his tiny t-rex paws in air and exclaim " I wanted to release the transcripts but our great attorney general said it would be bad for us."
 
Important Timeline

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
6,229
People realy think Pelosi would start this chain of events if there was nothing in this report? She's not stupid.
Might be worth revisiting the timeline here. (apologies to whoever I saw this one from before on here, this thread moves too fast).

7/24- Trump has phone call with Ukrainian President Zelensky. One week prior he instructed mulvaney to ensure a 400 million aid package approved by congress doesn't get to Ukraine.

7/28- Trump announces that Dan Coats, Director of National Intelligence is stepping down. This is read as Trump forcing out Coats, the two haven't been seeing eye to eye.

7/31- Trump has a phone call with Putin. This is the the one that was supposedly about "vast wildfires affecting siberia."

8/3- Trump requests a list of all active top spies from the office of the director of national intelligence. Remember, this is Coats' office and Coats is on his way out.

8/7- Jon Huntsman abruptly resigns his position as US abassador to Russia, presumably to "spend time with family."

8/8- (and this is the weird one) CNN reports that on 8/8 Coats interrupts a meeting that his deputy Sue Gordon was giving on election security to convince her that she should resign. Sue Gordon is a well respected 30 year veteran of the intelligence community. Whatever Coats said to her, her plans "change suddenly" and she issues her resignation on the spot within minutes of this discussion, resigning in tandem with Coats.

8/12- A Whistleblower issues a formal complaint about Trump's behavior to the office of the director of national intelligence- again, the same office Sue and Dan just resigned from.

9/9- CNN breaks a story, Putin has publicly outed the identity of a former CIA asset, extradited from russia in 2017. Said asset is living in Washington DC and may now be a target. Worth noting that Putin has been hunting former moles for the past year and absolutely is responsible for several killings and attempted killings in the UK of similar former agents.

9/10- National Security Advisor John Bolton attempts to resign. Trump fires him instead.

9/13- Schiff goes public with a complaint that ODNI is illegally witholding a whistleblower complaint from house intelligence.

Can anyone seriously look at this timeline and say there's "nothing there" or that Trump pressuring Zelensky (which Guiliani and Trump freely admit to while trying their damndest to keep the complaint from congress) is even the biggest thing in the complaint?
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,616
I've seen a couple of people ask about whether the WH even having access to the complaint is suspicious and just watched Schiff say it is. He said it was wildly inappropriate and that we shouldn't trust anything that comes from them.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,585
The best thing about this and it being actual impeachment is that Trump WILL NOT be able to shut up about it, and it's been demonstrably proven that his approval takes a hit whenever he's loud and making a ruckus.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,870
The best thing about this and it being actual impeachment is that Trump WILL NOT be able to shut up about it, and it's been demonstrably proven that his approval takes a hit whenever he's loud and making a ruckus.
I was literally just thinking about when his next rally was.

Can’t imagine how that will go.
 

Mackaveli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
610
So he called Ukraine the day after mueller testified? Is that just a coincidence or was he emboldened after it? To do more crimes like manafort?
 

Vennt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
248
Might be worth revisiting the timeline here. (apologies to whoever I saw this one from before on here, this thread moves too fast).

7/24- Trump has phone call with Ukrainian President Zelensky. One week prior he instructed mulvaney to ensure a 400 million aid package approved by congress doesn't get to Ukraine.

7/28- Trump announces that Dan Coats, Director of National Intelligence is stepping down. This is read as Trump forcing out Coats, the two haven't been seeing eye to eye.

7/31- Trump has a phone call with Putin. This is the the one that was supposedly about "vast wildfires affecting siberia."

8/3- Trump requests a list of all active top spies from the office of the director of national intelligence. Remember, this is Coats' office and Coats is on his way out.

8/7- Jon Huntsman abruptly resigns his position as US abassador to Russia, presumably to "spend time with family."

8/8- (and this is the weird one) CNN reports that on 8/8 Coats interrupts a meeting that his deputy Sue Gordon was giving on election security to convince her that she should resign. Sue Gordon is a well respected 30 year veteran of the intelligence community. Whatever Coats said to her, her plans "change suddenly" and she issues her resignation on the spot within minutes of this discussion, resigning in tandem with Coats.

8/12- A Whistleblower issues a formal complaint about Trump's behavior to the office of the director of national intelligence- again, the same office Sue and Dan just resigned from.

9/9- CNN breaks a story, Putin has publicly outed the identity of a former CIA asset, extradited from russia in 2017. Said asset is living in Washington DC and may now be a target. Worth noting that Putin has been hunting former moles for the past year and absolutely is responsible for several killings and attempted killings in the UK of similar former agents.

9/10- National Security Advisor John Bolton attempts to resign. Trump fires him instead.

9/13- Schiff goes public with a complaint that ODNI is illegally witholding a whistleblower complaint from house intelligence.

Can anyone seriously look at this timeline and say there's "nothing there" or that Trump pressuring Zelensky (which Guiliani and Trump freely admit to while trying their damndest to keep the complaint from congress) is even the biggest thing in the complaint?
Oh man, Coats is the whistleblower isn't he??? :P

PlzPlzPlzPlzPlz
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
2,451
Let's for a moment pretend this is a coordinated, intelligent and well running plan from the White House. There were several options:

1) Refuse to release the report in clear violation of the law. This risks impeachment proceeding because, again, THAT is totally illegal. The contents of the actual whistle blower report is irrelevant at that point, tbh. You do nothing, he's getting impeached because we pretty much have the votes, and even the bluest of blue dog is not going to go to bat for this president protecting himself in clear violation of the law.

2) Try to release the "transcript" that doesn't actually exist. Use hat as your talking point. Again, though, the House has signaled that is not sufficient, and you have the Senate on the record as saying, no, they want the actual report. This doesn't lessen the probability of impeachment in any appreciable way. You're still boned. You're still breaking the law, because, again, you are required to release this to congress.

3) Go ahead and release the thing, and hope that you can spin it in such a way where you can say "I didn't LITERALLY say no money if they don't investigate Biden." Because Trump is an idiot, he probably thinks the only crime here was if he used very specific wording. Probably because he watches Matlock, and he's been coached for years by his lawyers on how to avoid white collar crime by being vague. The extortion is not the high crime here, it's even requesting someone investigate a political rival. This is probably your best hope at avoiding impeachment, because you can kinda hope people can wiggle around and justify it. It's the best GOP defense for this. And it's still shitty because, again, the extortion is not the totality of the crime here. And you can even add the fact that it's only Trump who thinks this clears him, no one else.

We actually watched them, in real time today, go from 1-2-3, when they realized that we weren't playing RuPauls best friend race with this. Plus, the actual ability of THIS white house to keep a secret for longer than 9 minutes (8 if Fox and Friends is on) is like less likely than me going to Hooters.

or secret option 4

4) Somehow, Trump got the President of Ukraine, the IG, the whistleblower, the Democrats,the media, the Senate, and all the rest to buy into a story that he tried to do the thing he said he did....but only as a way to "get" the media and the libs. Secretly, the orange shitgibbon is a genius who, although unable to read a teleprompter without sounding like a Xanaxed moron, is able to literally con EVERYONE in Democratic leadership. The same folks who have been dragging their feet on this for months.

I think it's pretty clear which is the most likely..Occam's Razor, etc.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,537
Let's for a moment pretend this is a coordinated, intelligent and well running plan from the White House. There were several options:

1) Refuse to release the report in clear violation of the law. This risks impeachment proceeding because, again, THAT is totally illegal. The contents of the actual whistle blower report is irrelevant at that point, tbh. You do nothing, he's getting impeached because we pretty much have the votes, and even the bluest of blue dog is not going to go to bat for this president protecting himself in clear violation of the law.

2) Try to release the "transcript" that doesn't actually exist. Use hat as your talking point. Again, though, the House has signaled that is not sufficient, and you have the Senate on the record as saying, no, they want the actual report. This doesn't lessen the probability of impeachment in any appreciable way. You're still boned. You're still breaking the law, because, again, you are required to release this to congress.

3) Go ahead and release the thing, and hope that you can spin it in such a way where you can say "I didn't LITERALLY say no money if they don't investigate Biden." Because Trump is an idiot, he probably thinks the only crime here was if he used very specific wording. Probably because he watches Matlock, and he's been coached for years by his lawyers on how to avoid white collar crime by being vague. The extortion is not the high crime here, it's even requesting someone investigate a political rival. This is probably your best hope at avoiding impeachment, because you can kinda hope people can wiggle around and justify it. It's the best GOP defense for this. And it's still shitty because, again, the extortion is not the totality of the crime here. And you can even add the fact that it's only Trump who thinks this clears him, no one else.

We actually watched them, in real time today, go from 1-2-3, when they realized that we weren't playing RuPauls best friend race with this. Plus, the actual ability of THIS white house to keep a secret for longer than 9 minutes (8 if Fox and Friends is on) is like less likely than me going to Hooters.

or secret option 4

4) Somehow, Trump got the President of Ukraine, the IG, the whistleblower, the Democrats,the media, the Senate, and all the rest to buy into a story that he tried to do the thing he said he did....but only as a way to "get" the media and the libs. Secretly, the orange shitgibbon is a genius who, although unable to read a teleprompter without sounding like a Xanaxed moron, is able to literally con EVERYONE in Democratic leadership. The same folks who have been dragging their feet on this for months.

I think it's pretty clear which is the most likely..Occam's Razor, etc.
For option 4 he also had people commit crimes to get to this point so...definitely a big brain moment.
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,884
I've seen a couple of people ask about whether the WH even having access to the complaint is suspicious and just watched Schiff say it is. He said it was wildly inappropriate and that we shouldn't trust anything that comes from them.
And that's why I posted that link earlier. Barr will do everything possible, including breaking the law, to protect Trump. This is an administration that changes Trump's daily transcript on a regular basis. The fact that the DOJ has already been talking to the whistleblower's lawyers about "executive privilege" is absurd.

It is possible to be excited Pelosi moved forward but hesitant to believe this administration will do anything ethical to help the process forward.
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
6,229
Oh man, Coats is the whistleblower isn't he??? :P

PlzPlzPlzPlzPlz
Almost definitely. Its either him or Sue Gordon.

The way I see it is that trump had a conversation with Putin on 7/31. Coats was either present for that, or got the details of it when Trump requested a list of every US spy ever on 8/3. Trump likely intends to "out" a list of agents to Putin at Putin's request, because Putin REALLY hates Moles and has been "getting rid" of former Moles that escaped russia to the UK.

Coats is disturbed by Trump willingly compromising US agents, but can't deny the request, provides the list.
Huntsman gets wind of what happens, says "fuck THIS" and resigns.

Coats decides he's going to turn whistleblower, goes to his deputy Sue Gordon and tells her he's turning whistleblower, it will be a shitstorm and she needs to get the hell out to avoid the fallout. Sue obviously agrees, leaves with him.

Putin inevitably and publicly outs the identity of a former agent living in washington DC with all of his personal information, both making the guy a target AND advertising to other moles and potential moles that He Can Find You.

Bolton gets upset at what has happened, falls out with Trump, attempts to quit. Trump talks him down, then fires him in the morning to undermine his credibility.

The Ukraine story was freely offered up by Guiliani and Trump as spin and distraction. It can't possibly be the center of the complaint- there's no reason to block what they've straight up admitted on live television. There is something else in that report they don't want seen, and it's probably this. All of that fallout wouldn't have happened over Trump pressuring Zelensky.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,945
Trump sounded like garbage at his Dictator-esque UN speech today.

How much worse will he sound and look during an impeach inquiry?
 

Kaitos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,134
Let's for a moment pretend this is a coordinated, intelligent and well running plan from the White House. There were several options:

1) Refuse to release the report in clear violation of the law. This risks impeachment proceeding because, again, THAT is totally illegal. The contents of the actual whistle blower report is irrelevant at that point, tbh. You do nothing, he's getting impeached because we pretty much have the votes, and even the bluest of blue dog is not going to go to bat for this president protecting himself in clear violation of the law.

2) Try to release the "transcript" that doesn't actually exist. Use hat as your talking point. Again, though, the House has signaled that is not sufficient, and you have the Senate on the record as saying, no, they want the actual report. This doesn't lessen the probability of impeachment in any appreciable way. You're still boned. You're still breaking the law, because, again, you are required to release this to congress.

3) Go ahead and release the thing, and hope that you can spin it in such a way where you can say "I didn't LITERALLY say no money if they don't investigate Biden." Because Trump is an idiot, he probably thinks the only crime here was if he used very specific wording. Probably because he watches Matlock, and he's been coached for years by his lawyers on how to avoid white collar crime by being vague. The extortion is not the high crime here, it's even requesting someone investigate a political rival. This is probably your best hope at avoiding impeachment, because you can kinda hope people can wiggle around and justify it. It's the best GOP defense for this. And it's still shitty because, again, the extortion is not the totality of the crime here. And you can even add the fact that it's only Trump who thinks this clears him, no one else.

We actually watched them, in real time today, go from 1-2-3, when they realized that we weren't playing RuPauls best friend race with this. Plus, the actual ability of THIS white house to keep a secret for longer than 9 minutes (8 if Fox and Friends is on) is like less likely than me going to Hooters.

or secret option 4

4) Somehow, Trump got the President of Ukraine, the IG, the whistleblower, the Democrats,the media, the Senate, and all the rest to buy into a story that he tried to do the thing he said he did....but only as a way to "get" the media and the libs. Secretly, the orange shitgibbon is a genius who, although unable to read a teleprompter without sounding like a Xanaxed moron, is able to literally con EVERYONE in Democratic leadership. The same folks who have been dragging their feet on this for months.

I think it's pretty clear which is the most likely..Occam's Razor, etc.
Yeah, they have no other option but number 3. Release it and try to spin it and hope for the best.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
2,451
The idea that a whistle blower report can be entitled to "executive privilege" is hilariously transparently not true.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
511
And that's why I posted that link earlier. Barr will do everything possible, including breaking the law, to protect Trump. This is an administration that changes Trump's daily transcript on a regular basis. The fact that the DOJ has already been talking to the whistleblower's lawyers about "executive privilege" is absurd.

It is possible to be excited Pelosi moved forward but hesitant to believe this administration will do anything ethical to help the process forward.
Yeah I alluded to that earlier. They shouldn't even beable to see the complaint. It defies the whole whistle blower process which is mandated by law. The director of National Intelligence doesn't get a say on what is a legitimate whistleblower complaint. The inspector general does, he simply gets to 'see' what that complaint is and signs off on it. At no point should anyone else should have seen it to flag it as something separate. Executive Privilege shouldn't have occurred because they complaint should have gone to congress first since that is their right by law.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,934

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,719


John Roberts @johnrobertsFox

A Senior Administration Official tells @FoxNews that if it is legally possible to release the whistleblower complaint to Congress, the @WhiteHouse will do it ASAP

8:20 PM - Sep 24, 2019




Renato Mariotti @renato_mariotti

It’s legally required. Executive privilege is not an acceptable excuse to withhold the whistleblower complaint in this scenario. https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1176652709577056256 …

8:21 PM - Sep 24, 2019
"If" = "We're just going to say it isn't as an excuse kthx"
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,021
Might be worth revisiting the timeline here. (apologies to whoever I saw this one from before on here, this thread moves too fast).

7/24- Trump has phone call with Ukrainian President Zelensky. One week prior he instructed mulvaney to ensure a 400 million aid package approved by congress doesn't get to Ukraine.

7/28- Trump announces that Dan Coats, Director of National Intelligence is stepping down. This is read as Trump forcing out Coats, the two haven't been seeing eye to eye.

7/31- Trump has a phone call with Putin. This is the the one that was supposedly about "vast wildfires affecting siberia."

8/3- Trump requests a list of all active top spies from the office of the director of national intelligence. Remember, this is Coats' office and Coats is on his way out.

8/7- Jon Huntsman abruptly resigns his position as US abassador to Russia, presumably to "spend time with family."

8/8- (and this is the weird one) CNN reports that on 8/8 Coats interrupts a meeting that his deputy Sue Gordon was giving on election security to convince her that she should resign. Sue Gordon is a well respected 30 year veteran of the intelligence community. Whatever Coats said to her, her plans "change suddenly" and she issues her resignation on the spot within minutes of this discussion, resigning in tandem with Coats.

8/12- A Whistleblower issues a formal complaint about Trump's behavior to the office of the director of national intelligence- again, the same office Sue and Dan just resigned from.

9/9- CNN breaks a story, Putin has publicly outed the identity of a former CIA asset, extradited from russia in 2017. Said asset is living in Washington DC and may now be a target. Worth noting that Putin has been hunting former moles for the past year and absolutely is responsible for several killings and attempted killings in the UK of similar former agents.

9/10- National Security Advisor John Bolton attempts to resign. Trump fires him instead.

9/13- Schiff goes public with a complaint that ODNI is illegally witholding a whistleblower complaint from house intelligence.

Can anyone seriously look at this timeline and say there's "nothing there" or that Trump pressuring Zelensky (which Guiliani and Trump freely admit to while trying their damndest to keep the complaint from congress) is even the biggest thing in the complaint?
Great post breaking it all down. You need to post more; haven't seen you lately!
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
2,451
Yeah, they have no other option but number 3. Release it and try to spin it and hope for the best.
Ya, and even that is a really huge longshot. But, it's prolly better to rip the bandaid off and just hope for the best.

Or secret option 5:

Trump's a moron and literally thinks it clears him. All my other ideas were predicated on the idea this white house is competent. And, god...just no.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,021
honestly I don't get credit for this. Someone else put 3/4ths of that timeline together a few days ago. I just can't recall who.
Fuck it, I liked your Coats whistleblower post too. It's probably him or another high ranking official. I bet money that's why this is moving so fast. Would they do all this so quickly if it were just some rank and file employee?

And still Susan Collins remains silent.

#SpeakSusan
She knows she is fucked. I think she got blindsided by this, as did apparently other Senators like Kennedy who made a giant fool of himself on CHUCK FUCKING TODD. At least Simply Susan has the sense not to say anything right away. She's not stupid; she's just a terrible person.

Has Lindsey said anything this afternoon?
 
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