US PoliEra 2019 |OT7| It's happening

No Depth · Sep 24, 2019

Arm Van Dam said:

But remember this can only hurt the Dems!

adam387 · Sep 24, 2019

God, if we can send Rudy and his fucked up orange tic tac looking mother fucking teeth off to the slammer I'll die a happy man.

Wilsongt · Sep 24, 2019

I'm surprised Kellyanne isn't all over the CNN circuit tonight.

Linkura · Sep 24, 2019

Autodidact said:

This should be an easy whip to get to the number we need.

Manmademan · Sep 24, 2019

SatelliteOfLove said:
"DON'T LOSE THIS SECURITY BLANKET THOUGHT! YOU MAY NOT GET ANOTHER!"

I get it, but maybe Coats didn't and footdragged before being demanded to and resigned, taking Gorden with him.

Coats resigned on 7/28. He was just running out the clock until his official exit date of 8/15.
For some reason he ran into Sue's meeting on 8/8 to convince her she had to resign "right then" and she dropped her job like a hot rock and left with him. "someone" then submitted an official whistleblower complaint on 8/12, 3 days before Coats' official last day at work.

I also wonder if the sham Biden investigation extortion affair was not the goal like you said, but as his REWARD upon successfully outing spies or getting Ukraine screwed over for territory.

I don't follow this at all, sorry.

Sagroth · Sep 24, 2019

Thanks everyone for the last few pages breaking a bunch of these recent events down (and I'm really interested in the speculation that there's more to this than pressuring to look into Biden).

I'm too beaten down to hope, but I suppose there's a nonzero chance that this marks things turning a corner.

Deleted member 8561 · Sep 24, 2019

Teggy said:
Thank goodness for the people with enough of a conscience to leak this stuff.

Starting to think it's way, way bigger than Ukraine. The Coats (and maybe even Bolton) stuff makes me think Trump has managed to compromise our entire intelligence network

Autodidact · Sep 24, 2019

Kid Heart said:
as I doubt the senate republicans will flip regardless of what turns up,

No one has ever expected the Senate to convict!

Surfinn · Sep 24, 2019

I know we've been through a lot today but

That Guiliani story is thread worthy

Madison · Sep 24, 2019

this thread is going to fast for the human eye. I fear leaving an hour only to come back to Trump stabbing the ukranian president with a sword

Ithil · Sep 24, 2019

GYODX said:
Do you guys think that the political calculus has finally shifted enough for Republicans that it is more politically expedient for them to throw Trump to the wolves than to continue shielding him?
I'm still not quite sure what to make of it.

Also, a year or two from now, and with the benefit of hindsight, I think Pelosi will be vindicated for how she timed this.

Go look at how fast Amash got pounced on and driven out of the party. They all know it's a Trump party now, any toe out of line and you're out.

Manmademan · Sep 24, 2019

Rilakkuma Fanatic said:
My hot take: It is the attempted systemic destruction of America's spy network on Putin's behalf.

My take is that this is exactly what this was. Leaking a list of active spies in the field means people could get killed. That's the kind of thing I expect people to start whistleblowing, resigning, and dropping their jobs out of nowhere for.

Teggy · Sep 24, 2019

The Guiliani but about him saying the ambassador was under Soros control has me thinking the dude has gone nuts.

Also, this says...nothing? No explanation at all.

Sagroth · Sep 24, 2019

I keep getting paywalled trying to read that WaPo story.

cameron · Sep 24, 2019

Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

WaPo outlines a sequence, involving:
*The abrupt removal of the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine
*The circumvention of senior officials on the NSC
*The suspension of hundreds of millions of aid

This as key officials struggled to piece together Giuliani's activities from news reports. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1176660233499959296 …

9:05 PM - Sep 24, 2019

Kate Brannen @K8brannen

According to @washingtonpost, the call was delayed for so long because senior US officials were worried Trump "would use the conversation to press Kiev for damaging information on Trump's potential rival in the 2020 race." https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/giuliani-pursued-shadow-ukraine-agenda-as-key-foreign-policy-officials-were-sidelined/2019/09/24/ee18aaec-deec-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html … https://twitter.com/IvoHDaalder/status/1176317824760987648 …

Ivo Daalder @IvoHDaalder

Zelensky was inaugurated as Ukraine's President on May 20. Trump waited till July 25 to make congratulatory call. Just saying.

10:09 PM - Sep 23, 2019

9:07 PM - Sep 24, 2019

Hiphopopotamus · Sep 24, 2019

Sagroth said:
I keep getting paywalled trying to read that WaPo story.

Incognito mode is your friend. But WaPo is worth a digital-only sub if you can spare the cash

Diablos · Sep 24, 2019

Teggy said:
The Guiliani but about him saying the ambassador was under Soros control has me thinking the dude has gone nuts.

Also, this says...nothing? No explanation at all.

Painfully neutral

NookSports · Sep 24, 2019

The daily beast with some more oppo

https://www.thedailybeast.com/impea...oped-into-rudy-giulianis-quest-to-smear-biden

U.S. Ambassador Roped Into Rudy's Quest to Smear Biden

Rudy Giuliani's contacts with officials at the State Department as part of his controversial efforts to dig up dirt on Joe Biden in Ukraine are more extensive than have been publicly reported. And they raise additional questions about the degree to which senior officials throughout the Trump administration were involved in—or privy to—attempts by the president to muddy a top potential political opponent.

-Le Monde- · Sep 24, 2019

There's no secret play, these people willingly step on poo all the time.

Rudy is damn mess.

Autodidact said:
"John Bolton... welcome to THE RESISTANCE."

*avatar quote* 😂

Arm Van Dam · Sep 24, 2019

But even within Trump's party, few have gone so far as to say they would consider it appropriate for the president to solicit foreign help in an American election. And his political fate may hinge on how lawmakers and the public assess not only his intentions on the call, but also the actions of his subordinates in the events surrounding it
.
U.S. officials described an atmosphere of intense pressure inside the NSC and other departments since the existence of the whistleblower complaint became known, with some officials facing suspicion that they had a hand either in the complaint or in relaying damaging information to the whistleblower, whose identity has not been revealed and who is entitled to legal protection.

One official — speaking, like others, on the condition of anonymity — described the climate as verging on "bloodletting."

Several officials traced their initial concerns about the path of U.S.-Ukrainian relations to news reports and interviews granted by Giuliani in which he began to espouse views and concerns that did not appear connected to U.S. priorities or policy.

The former New York mayor appears to have seen Zelensky, a political neophyte elected president of Ukraine in April and sworn in in May, as a potential ally on two political fronts: punishing those Giuliani suspected of playing a role in exposing the Ukraine-related corruption of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, and delivering political ammunition against Biden.

After the conclusion of the Mueller investigation, Giuliani turned his attention to Ukraine, officials said, and soon began pushing for personnel changes at the embassy while seeking meetings with Zelensky subordinates. He also had his own emissaries in Ukraine who were meeting with officials, setting up meetings for him and sending back information that he could circulate in the United States.

The U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, became a primary Giuliani target.

Yovanovitch, a longtime State Department Foreign Service officer, arrived in Ukraine as ambassador at the end of the Obama administration, more than two years after an uprising centered on Kiev's Independence Square ousted the Russian-leaning government.

Though she was widely respected in the national security community for her efforts to prod Ukraine to take on corruption, Giuliani targeted Yovanovitch with wild accusations including that she played a secret role in exposing Manafort and was part of a conspiracy orchestrated by the liberal financier George Soros.

"She should be part of the investigation as part of the collusion," Giuliani said in a recent interview with The Washington Post, adding that "she is now working for Soros." Yovanovitch is still employed by the State Department and is a fellow at Georgetown University. She declined to comment.

Giuliani also said the entire State Department was a problem, and officials familiar with his actions say he regularly briefed Trump on his Ukrainian endeavors. "The State Department is a bureaucracy that needs to change," he told The Post.

Many of Giuliani's charges were either recycled from, or subsequently echoed by, right-wing media outlets.

In late March, the president's son Donald Trump Jr. amplified this campaign with a tweet calling for the removal of "Obama's U.S. Ambassador."

Yovanovitch, who was to depart in July after a three-year assignment, was prematurely ordered back to Washington, a move that both baffled and unnerved senior officials at the State Department and the White House, officials said.

Within days of her ouster on May 9, Giuliani seemed determined to seize an unsanctioned diplomatic role for himself, announcing plans to travel to Ukraine to push for investigations that would "be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government."

Giuliani canceled the trip amid an ensuing backlash over his purpose but later met with one of Zelensky's senior aides in Madrid and pressed the issue of Ukraine's helping against Biden.

Hoo boy, this one's something to unpack

Hopfrog · Sep 24, 2019

Giuliani needs to go under the jail. He is a walking criminal act.

Linkura · Sep 24, 2019

NO ONE expects a Senate conviction!

Manmademan · Sep 24, 2019

Teggy said:
The Guiliani but about him saying the ambassador was under Soros control has me thinking the dude has gone nuts.

Also, this says...nothing? No explanation at all.

yeah, it's horseshit. Gordon was going to be passed over (and ILLEGALLY passed over, the law says the job is hers by default) because Trump didn't feel she was "loyal enough." Whoever ended up in that job was someone that was going to protect Trump law be damned exactly as Barr is doing.

also noteworthy:

How does an intelligence whistleblower file a complaint?
The employee submits the complaint to the inspector general of the intelligence community. The inspector general is required to review it within 14 days and then determines whether the complaint is of "urgent concern," which is defined as involving conduct "relating to" the "administration or operation of an intelligence activity within the authority of the Director of National Intelligence involving classified information."
If the complaint appears credible, the inspector general is required to forward it to the director of national intelligence, who then has seven days to send the complaint and any accompanying information to congressional intelligence oversight committees. If the inspector general decides it's not credible, or if he or she does not act on the complaint, the whistleblower can contact the congressional intelligence committees directly but must tell the inspector general and seek guidance from the director of national intelligence to contact the committees securely.

BUT

On Aug. 12, an intelligence community employee submitted a complaint to acting inspector general Michael Atkinson, who concluded the report was urgent and credible and forwarded it to Maguire.
Maguire, however, did not send it to the intelligence committees within seven days, as the statute requires, and failed to give the whistleblower guidance on how to securely contact the committees directly. Since then, Maguire has also refused to comply with a subpoena issued by the House Intelligence Committee, compelling him to produce an unredacted copy of the whistleblower complaint.
In a Sept. 17 letter to Schiff, Maguire's general counsel, Jason Klitenic, said the whistleblower complaint was determined not to be an "urgent concern."

Maguire explicitly overrode the determination of the Inspector General. He's breaking the law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ongress-trump-an-impasse-heres-what-law-says/

Wilsongt · Sep 24, 2019

This Wapo story seems very tailored to throw Guiliani under the bus and make him the fall guy. I remember when DonJr was liking a bunch of tweets about Hunter Biden and Ukraine a few months ago with Guiliani started this mess.

TheHunter · Sep 24, 2019

Yeah they're fucked.

IggyChooChoo · Sep 24, 2019

Manmademan said:
Might be worth revisiting the timeline here. (apologies to whoever I saw this one from before on here, this thread moves too fast).

7/24- Trump has phone call with Ukrainian President Zelensky. One week prior he instructed mulvaney to ensure a 400 million aid package approved by congress doesn't get to Ukraine.

7/28- Trump announces that Dan Coats, Director of National Intelligence is stepping down. This is read as Trump forcing out Coats, the two haven't been seeing eye to eye.

7/31- Trump has a phone call with Putin. This is the the one that was supposedly about "vast wildfires affecting siberia."

8/3- Trump requests a list of all active top spies from the office of the director of national intelligence. Remember, this is Coats' office and Coats is on his way out.

8/7- Jon Huntsman abruptly resigns his position as US abassador to Russia, presumably to "spend time with family."

8/8- (and this is the weird one) CNN reports that on 8/8 Coats interrupts a meeting that his deputy Sue Gordon was giving on election security to convince her that she should resign. Sue Gordon is a well respected 30 year veteran of the intelligence community. Whatever Coats said to her, her plans "change suddenly" and she issues her resignation on the spot within minutes of this discussion, resigning in tandem with Coats.

8/12- A Whistleblower issues a formal complaint about Trump's behavior to the office of the director of national intelligence- again, the same office Sue and Dan just resigned from.

9/9- CNN breaks a story, Putin has publicly outed the identity of a former CIA asset, extradited from russia in 2017. Said asset is living in Washington DC and may now be a target. Worth noting that Putin has been hunting former moles for the past year and absolutely is responsible for several killings and attempted killings in the UK of similar former agents.

9/10- National Security Advisor John Bolton attempts to resign. Trump fires him instead.

9/13- Schiff goes public with a complaint that ODNI is illegally witholding a whistleblower complaint from house intelligence.

Can anyone seriously look at this timeline and say there's "nothing there" or that Trump pressuring Zelensky (which Guiliani and Trump freely admit to while trying their damndest to keep the complaint from congress) is even the biggest thing in the complaint?

Can a mod threadmark this post? Asking seriously.

Lo-Volt · Sep 24, 2019

This really feels like the first year of the Trump administration, horrifying stories being released as if they're all loaded in a torpedo tube. Every lie, every dumb press release, every effort at obfuscation, blown away by the papers within eight hours.

Linkura · Sep 24, 2019

Guiliani is such a fucking clown it's unbelievable

Nappuccino · Sep 24, 2019

.

Manmademan said:
Might be worth revisiting the timeline here. (apologies to whoever I saw this one from before on here, this thread moves too fast).

7/24- Trump has phone call with Ukrainian President Zelensky. One week prior he instructed mulvaney to ensure a 400 million aid package approved by congress doesn't get to Ukraine.

7/28- Trump announces that Dan Coats, Director of National Intelligence is stepping down. This is read as Trump forcing out Coats, the two haven't been seeing eye to eye.

7/31- Trump has a phone call with Putin. This is the the one that was supposedly about "vast wildfires affecting siberia."

8/3- Trump requests a list of all active top spies from the office of the director of national intelligence. Remember, this is Coats' office and Coats is on his way out.

8/7- Jon Huntsman abruptly resigns his position as US abassador to Russia, presumably to "spend time with family."

8/8- (and this is the weird one) CNN reports that on 8/8 Coats interrupts a meeting that his deputy Sue Gordon was giving on election security to convince her that she should resign. Sue Gordon is a well respected 30 year veteran of the intelligence community. Whatever Coats said to her, her plans "change suddenly" and she issues her resignation on the spot within minutes of this discussion, resigning in tandem with Coats.

8/12- A Whistleblower issues a formal complaint about Trump's behavior to the office of the director of national intelligence- again, the same office Sue and Dan just resigned from.

9/9- CNN breaks a story, Putin has publicly outed the identity of a former CIA asset, extradited from russia in 2017. Said asset is living in Washington DC and may now be a target. Worth noting that Putin has been hunting former moles for the past year and absolutely is responsible for several killings and attempted killings in the UK of similar former agents.

9/10- National Security Advisor John Bolton attempts to resign. Trump fires him instead.

9/13- Schiff goes public with a complaint that ODNI is illegally witholding a whistleblower complaint from house intelligence.

Can anyone seriously look at this timeline and say there's "nothing there" or that Trump pressuring Zelensky (which Guiliani and Trump freely admit to while trying their damndest to keep the complaint from congress) is even the biggest thing in the complaint?

I said goddamn.

If these events are even halfway linked like this timeline would suggest, this is some damning, damning shit

adam387 · Sep 24, 2019

I'm watching Rachel for the first time in a while, and god, I love her.

Wilsongt · Sep 24, 2019

LMAO #Trump2020LandslideVictory is trending

Bots doing work.

Hiphopopotamus · Sep 24, 2019

Teggy said:
The Guiliani but about him saying the ambassador was under Soros control has me thinking the dude has gone nuts.

Also, this says...nothing? No explanation at all.

That's a message for Congress. It's his, "DOJ said they would protect me, and now I fear I may have crimed out in the open" mea culpa

Kirblar · Sep 24, 2019

Wilsongt said:
This Wapo story seems very tailored to throw Guiliani under the bus and make him the fall guy. I remember when DonJr was liking a bunch of tweets about Hunter Biden and Ukraine a few months ago with Guiliani started this mess.

He's not the fall guy when you're saying Trump asked him to do it.

That WaPo is putting up timeline after timeline here this quickly goes to how easy a decision was on impeachment here- it's all already out there in public, including Trump admitting to it!

shinra-bansho · Sep 24, 2019

Lol, I have no idea why my thread covering two early state polls was closed when other single poll threads have stayed open.

Deleted member 176 · Sep 24, 2019

There's a really funny panel in Fables (which is set in New York and has a pretty conservative ideology) where a little kid excitedly asks his mom "Does this mean we can get Giuliani back?" and I think of it all the time

No Depth · Sep 24, 2019

Wilsongt said:
This Wapo story seems very tailored to throw Guiliani under the bus and make him the fall guy. I remember when DonJr was liking a bunch of tweets about Hunter Biden and Ukraine a few months ago with Guiliani started this mess.

I was wondering the same. There is even a line that practically states early in "This was all Giuliani".

Hell even Bolton was like WTF and learning as we were during interviews on TV from Rudy. Though concerned at what was happening, his relationship with Trump was too strained for his input to matter at any point during these events according to the article.

Kirblar · Sep 24, 2019

shinra-bansho said:
Lol, I have no idea why my thread was closed when other single poll threads have stayed open.

They're just closing them all on sight now. Which is really weird when there's actually news to them now with the race shifting, it's not the dead horserace it was for months upon months.

Deleted member 176 · Sep 24, 2019

Wilsongt said:
LMAO #Trump2020LandslideVictory is trending

Bots doing work.

Trump 2020? No, landslide victory!

RailWays · Sep 24, 2019

Shiiiiiiiet this Guiliani timeline.
He's fucked

Owzers · Sep 24, 2019

Linkura said:
Guiliani is such a fucking clown it's unbelievable

That's America's clown you're talking about.

daedalius · Sep 24, 2019

Wow this Ghouliani shit is just bonkers

wvan13 · Sep 24, 2019

daedalius said:
Wow this Ghouliani shit is just bonkers

I'm not sure if you meant to type Ghouliani instead of Guiliani, but I can't stop picturing him as a Fallout ghoul and it just works.

FreezePeach · Sep 24, 2019

Everyone knows Rudy was Grabbed by the Ghoulies.

Arm Van Dam · Sep 24, 2019

A reminder that Rudy Giuliani was pushing unhinged conspiracy theories about George Soros on the president's propaganda network yesterday

Rudy was talking about good ole George just yesterday

steveovig · Sep 24, 2019

I don't know if this belongs here but what do you guys think is generally the best objective magazine to subscribe to? I was thinking maybe the Atlantic or the New Yorker. What are your recommendations for thought provoking articles that are objective?

daedalius · Sep 24, 2019

wvan13 said:
I'm not sure if you meant to type Ghouliani instead of Guiliani, but I can't stop picturing him as a Fallout ghoul and it just works.

Lol I figured I'd misspell his proper name so I just wrote that as I saw it in the thread before at some point.

Deleted member 4090 · Sep 24, 2019

If this really is the beginning of the end, it would be ironic that Trump going down would be spurred by what the entire Mueller probe was about in the first place-- reaching out to a foreign power for aid against his political opponents as part of some scheme.

jtb · Sep 24, 2019

steveovig said:
I don't know if this belongs here but what do you guys think is generally the best objective magazine to subscribe to? I was thinking maybe the Atlantic or the New Yorker. What are your recommendations for thought provoking articles that are objective?

The Atlantic is awful. Go for the New Yorker. Plus, it's a weekly.

Kusagari · Sep 24, 2019

It figures that Trump's weird devotion to Rudy and letting him do whatever he wants for months would eventually catch up with him.

Owzers · Sep 24, 2019

The shadow Guiliani stuff has to be pursued no matter what happens tmw.

US PoliEra 2019 |OT7| It's happening

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