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BrokenFiction

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
ATL
I love that it took him several hours to figure out that "comeback".


Well-the-Jerk-Store-called-and-theyre-running-out-of-you..gif
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Man, the possibility of an alternate timeline where Bowie is still alive is just as heartbreaking as the one where Hillary wins. In both cases, we're reminded just how much our current one sucks.
The other timeline is Hillary won and Bowie lives. It's the timeline where all our dreams came true and things don't suck horribly every single day.
 

Sagroth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,826
I've seen clients and family members spiraling towards a complete breakdown before, and something about Trump today in particular is setting off my alarm bells something fierce. He still has a chance to get out of said spiral, but honestly it wouldn't surprise me if he continues to become even more unhinged than we've seen so far, and possibly even experiences a health event of some sort.

In any event, I don't think this wild ride is going to let up this week.
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613

The hits keep on coming.


Awesome background. 😯
She's really getting under his skin.
And that "I'm praying for the president's health" comment is fire.

He really hates the idea of looking weak/vulnerable.


Edit

Hahahaha! I made my post before updating the thread, and reading his tweet. It was obvious that Trump wasn't going to handle that comment. 🤣
 
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Falore

Banned
Feb 15, 2019
745
I guess gordon sondland bascally nullified his expenses on campaign donations and got all that money back for free. I hope they give him life in prison if he doesnt help take down trump now.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,488
Maybe Trump should play some Taylor Swift for Pelosi because she obviously needs to calm down with her harpy self.

God Trump is such a slug that needs to have a mountain of salt poured on him.
 

MrHedin

Member
Dec 7, 2018
6,810
This is one of the things for us and literally everyone at my husband's work. As of January for the average worker, the company is covering 100% of the premiums for everyone. Even under Bernie's 0 minute ab 4% payroll thing, my family's costs would skyrocket. (And we use a lot of health care! As in, my son just had nearly $30k worth of medical testing/drugs/equipment done in the last 2 days. We reach our out of pocket maximum by the end of January each year.) There is no universe in which a 4% payroll tax would save us an ounce of money. I accept that we're not necessarily indicative of everyone, as we earn a lot more than most and have a strong union backed plan. But, there is going to be some massive pushback from unions on this issue.

It's why Medicare for All Who Want It is the best possible option. Look,if people really hate their health insurance, and if people really, really want a government plan...let it compete! My ideal solution would be something where each year you sign up for your health insurance at work. Your company can offer a private plan that you can sign up for, or you can elect to sign up for the Medicare option. If the Medicare option works best for your family, you pick that. We'd get rid of the exchanges, and the only option would be the Medicare for All Who Want It Plan. We'd roll Medicaid into this new plan, while keeping the same level of Medicaid coverage. We'd roll Medicare A/B/D into this new plan too. If at any point you lose your job, you can immediately enroll in the M4AWI plan. It would be subsidized heavily. This would give our infrastructure time to actually adapt to the idea of a single payer system. It would let people keep their insurance if they want it. It would eliminate uninsured. It would give us time to figure out how to manage reimbursements without having to cut services. It's a win/win situation.

It's probably variable in each case but would your costs actually skyrocket? Paying 100% of premiums would be a large part of your husband's compensation from the company. If the company was no longer on the hook for healthcare that would free up a lot of funds to go into wages (depending on how scrupulous the company is). It would all depend on where the percentages land but I would expect most people would probably be about even with it all. That said, I think Medicare for all who want it is probably the best current plan.

Nobody is going to trust their employers to "pass on" the health care savings either.
Basically anyone who gets their health care through their employer is working on the assumption that it's "Free" and your asking them to give up free healthcare AND pay more in taxes. So good luck with that.

In both my former and current job when we receive our yearly reviews I have gotten a breakdown of my total compensation package; wages, healthcare, 401k contributions, etc. If they are suddenly off the hook for those costs I know exactly how much compensation that I am missing. I have zero idea how common of a practice this is but I suspect a fair amount of people would have some idea of what their employer is paying.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
In both my former and current job when we receive our yearly reviews I have gotten a breakdown of my total compensation package; wages, healthcare, 401k contributions, etc. If they are suddenly off the hook for those costs I know exactly how much compensation that I am missing. I have zero idea how common of a practice this is but I suspect a fair amount of people would have some idea of what their employer is paying.
Never seen that before, but it's a good idea.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
It's probably variable in each case but would your costs actually skyrocket? Paying 100% of premiums would be a large part of your husband's compensation from the company. If the company was no longer on the hook for healthcare that would free up a lot of funds to go into wages (depending on how scrupulous the company is). It would all depend on where the percentages land but I would expect most people would probably be about even with it all. That said, I think Medicare for all who want it is probably the best current plan.
Bernie's M4A also has a payroll tax increase, so companies aren't going to be able/willing to pass 100% of the "savings" over to workers. My husband's work is very very good at how they treat folks. (We own a quarter of the company, and don't take no shit.) But, ya, back of envelope math, our costs would go up. Everyone would suffer because of profit sharing as well (which is extended to literally everyone.)

I think most folks would probably break even, as you said. However, it's not universally true, and in the interest of transparency we need to be realistic about that. Like I said, if folks want to switch to Medicare? I'm 100% for that, but I do think we should let people make that decision for themselves.

I would also pay money to avoid healthcare funding questions at the next cluster---erm debate.
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
Warren should just lie and say taxes will actually be lowered and if called out on it just double down and accuse the media of being biased. Who fucking cares just do what's necessary the stakes are too high.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
694
It's probably variable in each case but would your costs actually skyrocket? Paying 100% of premiums would be a large part of your husband's compensation from the company. If the company was no longer on the hook for healthcare that would free up a lot of funds to go into wages (depending on how scrupulous the company is). It would all depend on where the percentages land but I would expect most people would probably be about even with it all. That said, I think Medicare for all who want it is probably the best current plan.
I think most people are going to naturally assume, or at least worry, that they're not getting any of that back. Like, there's a pretty fundamental tension between being so pessimistic about private health insurance that you want to blow the whole system up and expecting that market forces will promptly act to allow workers to capture the extra profit that appears when companies are no longer paying for health insurance. Either you just don't want to get rid of private insurance full stop or you worry that your employer will try to screw you out of the savings from going to single payer.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
In both my former and current job when we receive our yearly reviews I have gotten a breakdown of my total compensation package; wages, healthcare, 401k contributions, etc. If they are suddenly off the hook for those costs I know exactly how much compensation that I am missing. I have zero idea how common of a practice this is but I suspect a fair amount of people would have some idea of what their employer is paying.
Anecdotal, but I've had a few employers that did this FWIW.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
If M4A is dispensed via state exchanges or can be rejected by states a la Medicaid, it's toast. If people (who are currently paying additional in premiums to support ACA) have no understanding, control, or say in the timetable of "costs going down" reimbursement, it's toast. If people continue to vote down these initiatives while continuing to avoid participating in the medical system, it's toast. If people continue to be denied treatment or go bankrupt over medical costs despite public assistance and taxes feeding M4A, it's toast.

"Taxes will/won't go up for me" isn't an answer to any of this. "I want to do what's possible" isn't an answer either, because it doesn't consider that a newer solution is required to wrangle this 1/6th of the economy. Given that elected representatives would snatch public benefits from you while you sleep, 10-year timetables will get obliterated since we have two and four year election cycles. But at least timetables and $0.02 per every dollar over $50,000,000 are starting points for debate on structurally constructing and paying for this and other reforms.
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
What happens if Trump comes under a grand jury investigation, and the grand jury judge issues subpoena demanding Trump's tax returns?
 
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